Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

Its really childish to bring mothers into these discussions. It is only going to end up in insults being exchanged for no good reason. Grow up GR.

Get yourself a sense of humor Mitch...

[miltiades]

piratis you are doing what is called pissing against the wind.there is mutual distrust from both sides.your stupid rhetoric fools one.as a tc can i trust a gc to do the right thing in cyprus,can i f##k, 75/25 says it all.
up yours and goodbye

Have you given up your Traffic Warden job then ??

[Oracle]

piratis you are doing what is called pissing against the wind.there is mutual distrust from both sides.your stupid rhetoric fools one.as a tc can i trust a gc to do the right thing in cyprus,can i f##k, 75/25 says it all.
up yours and goodbye

Have you given up your Traffic Warden job then ??

[unitedwestand]

Its really childish to bring mothers into these discussions. It is only going to end up in insults being exchanged for no good reason. Grow up GR.

Get yourself a sense of humor Mitch...

Hey Stelios,

My name is not Mitch, as much as you and Kikapu would like to know my name I will not fall for that trap.

You are both barking up the wrong tree and making fools of yourselves.

OK GR? Oracle? Stelios?

[BirKibrisli]

Why are you offering me a health warning ... do you perhaps think three civil posts are my limit and then I turn abusive

OK ... not a game! In that case, I accept that you know better. That TCs are indeed unique in not being fully developed as free-thinking human beings and will self-destruct if faced with the harsh reality of only one vote per person ... So they want more.

Please tell me though Bir., why we GCs, who struggle &, strive with developing further as individuals (responsible beings) to motivate each other, should be lumbered with such a workload as to take in under our wings, backward (Literary Licence) people as the type of people you portray these beasts (LL) to be?

Why would we voluntarily take in a cuckoo which will be so demanding it will sap as dry whilst it is fed and nurtured at our expense ...

We do not need baggage. TCs join as equals; otherwise by your formula, I take it they are not worth harbouring, and we should look towards a solution without them.

Bir., ....you obviously have allowances up your sleeve, which you think we should make ... so spill the beans and end the frustration ....

You call this a civilised post???? You obviously get pleasure from mind-masturbation techniques like these,but all you are doing is proving the fears of the average TC that you are not fit to share a country with...

I take delight in the knowledge that you are indeed a figment of someone else's twisted imagination...You cannot be a real person,and I am not in the habit of talking to invisible entities...

[Rebel.Without.A.Pause]

Don't you know Cyprus and Turkey was joint piece of land ?

you started throwing mad again . Don't cry and complain later on as usual

This guy really is a moron. So he's seen a Turkish fascist website depicting a moving image of how Cyprus and Turkey were once linked as a piece of land. This is Bullshit! Cyprus rose out of the sea due to a set of volcanic explosions. This guy really is a moron and calls himself a Cypriot - yet doesnt even know the history of his 'homeland', whether it is Cyprus or Turkey.

Besides, if Cyprus was supposedly joint to know what is modern day Turkey millions of years ago, it doesnt give Turkey any right to the island. Turks havent even been in what is now modern day Turkey for 1,000 years yet.

[BirKibrisli]

birkibrisli you need to get real.pirates calls turkey the puppeteer and tc the puppet.he wants to treat you as an ethnic minority and to run your future and you are brainwashed into being annoyed with my posting.

i make a few words and all the usual gc bile is awash culminating in utter bile from kifeas,it looks to me kifeas as the rubbish you invent about turkish treatment of kurds is your model of how you would like to treat tc in cyprus.

am i right or am i right

4 times larger etc etc who cares, is the tc better off financially and does he have more freedom of movement now or pre 1974

i dont like bullies and bullies and gc are the same thing

kentish...Why don't you lift your head out of the sand and face the reality..
Piratis is right...Turkey is the puppet master and we the puppets...No amount of denial will change that...I wish Piratis did not rub it in as much as he does...Because it is not our fault that we are where we are,some of the fault is with the GCs...Those who cannot see that are also in denial...

And Piratis does not want to treat us as an ethnic minority...He want to treat us as equal citizens in a democratic state respecting human rights...
It is you historical fear and brainwashing which are working overtime on your mind...And Kifeas does not talk utter bile or rubbish...What he says about the Kurds is correct...But using the Kurdish example will not get us anywhere fast...In the average Turkish/TC person's mind the Kurdish problem is hundreds of miles from being relevant...The biggest and saddest denial in our recent history, in my opinion...But also a reality...

If you have points to argue,talk about them in a polite,sensible,logical manner...Otherwise you prove what Oracle is proving with her every post,that you have nothing to say to contribute to the advancement of understanding and trust so necessary for a fair solution which must inevitably contain compromises from both sides...

[BirKibrisli]

I am also talking about solutions Bir, and not mere agreements that will only make our problem worst.

As I said a real solution can not be far from what I described above. There really isn't any alternative to human rights and democracy. The details of the system can be negotiated, but the principles of a true solution can not.

Instead of waisting our time looking for something that does not exist and perpetuate our problem with new problematic agreements, we should simply concentrate our efforts in achieving a real solution.

If and when a solution is achieved is something that only time will show, but the earlier we start working for a solution the better.

Fine,Piratis...The real solution according to you and me is a unitary state based on democratic principles and human rights...But you and I cannot really affect an agreement between the two communities...Those who can will have nothing less than a BBF based on political equality of the GCs and TCs...How are we going to get from here to our ideal "real" solution???

I disagree with you Bir. You and I can affect the agreement by refusing to accept some agreement that will not solve the Cyprus problem but make it worst and perpetuate it.

The first step in solving a problem is to recognize that there is a problem and identify what the problem exactly is.

Take the Kurds for example. Kurdistan is not a recognized entity, and for the international community there is no such problem as the "Turkish occupation of Kurdistan", and the Kurds have no international voice to fight for their rights.

In that respect Cyprus is far ahead of the Kurds in its struggle for freedom. The problem of illegal Turkish occupation of the north part of Cyprus is internationally recognized, and Cyprus has the international voice, and some small power within EU, to fight for justice.

If we accept some new agreement that will try to close (not solve) the Cyprus problem, then while our problem will remain the same, or even get worst, it will not be recognized as a problem by anybody anymore. Furthermore, by giving to Turkey the 50% power share of Cyprus with veto rights, it will mean that Cypriots will lose their international voice and will not be able to even complain.

I don't have the magic formula that can immediately solve the Cyprus problem under the current balance of power, but I know what we should and shouldn't do in order to avoid getting something worst and avoid making steps backwards in our struggle for freedom.

I see what you are getting at,Piratis...But you are not considering one thing....the status quo is also making it worse and perpetuating it...And the longer it lasts the worse it will get...With an interim solution we have at least a chance to work on the understanding,trust ands respect aspects...At least we might get a chance to de-brainwash the people,to give them the opportunity to work and live together even partly or on a part-time basis,in a realistic sloution environment...the status quo will only lead to another hot conflict,which is what I think we must avoid at all cost...An interim solution might just lead to our ideal solution,a long time down the line...

[Piratis]

I am also talking about solutions Bir, and not mere agreements that will only make our problem worst.

As I said a real solution can not be far from what I described above. There really isn't any alternative to human rights and democracy. The details of the system can be negotiated, but the principles of a true solution can not.

Instead of waisting our time looking for something that does not exist and perpetuate our problem with new problematic agreements, we should simply concentrate our efforts in achieving a real solution.

If and when a solution is achieved is something that only time will show, but the earlier we start working for a solution the better.

Fine,Piratis...The real solution according to you and me is a unitary state based on democratic principles and human rights...But you and I cannot really affect an agreement between the two communities...Those who can will have nothing less than a BBF based on political equality of the GCs and TCs...How are we going to get from here to our ideal "real" solution???

I disagree with you Bir. You and I can affect the agreement by refusing to accept some agreement that will not solve the Cyprus problem but make it worst and perpetuate it.

The first step in solving a problem is to recognize that there is a problem and identify what the problem exactly is.

Take the Kurds for example. Kurdistan is not a recognized entity, and for the international community there is no such problem as the "Turkish occupation of Kurdistan", and the Kurds have no international voice to fight for their rights.

In that respect Cyprus is far ahead of the Kurds in its struggle for freedom. The problem of illegal Turkish occupation of the north part of Cyprus is internationally recognized, and Cyprus has the international voice, and some small power within EU, to fight for justice.

If we accept some new agreement that will try to close (not solve) the Cyprus problem, then while our problem will remain the same, or even get worst, it will not be recognized as a problem by anybody anymore. Furthermore, by giving to Turkey the 50% power share of Cyprus with veto rights, it will mean that Cypriots will lose their international voice and will not be able to even complain.

I don't have the magic formula that can immediately solve the Cyprus problem under the current balance of power, but I know what we should and shouldn't do in order to avoid getting something worst and avoid making steps backwards in our struggle for freedom.

I see what you are getting at,Piratis...But you are not considering one thing....the status quo is also making it worse and perpetuating it...And the longer it lasts the worse it will get...With an interim solution we have at least a chance to work on the understanding,trust ands respect aspects...At least we might get a chance to de-brainwash the people,to give them the opportunity to work and live together even partly or on a part-time basis,in a realistic sloution environment...the status quo will only lead to another hot conflict,which is what I think we must avoid at all cost...An interim solution might just lead to our ideal solution,a long time down the line...

I agree what you say about the status quo but I am not sure about what "interim solution" you are talking about.

An "interim solution" would require several things:
1) It would have to be better than the status quo
2) It should be clear that it is interim with specific time frame (otherwise we will be hearing the "if you didn't like it you shouldn't have signed it" for the next 200 years)
3) It should be such that will promote unity so that at the end of this specific period we will indeed be ready to make the next step.

So yes, if we can agree on somehting that will not be the final solution but it will be a step forward then I would agree. But so far what is proposed not only is not a solution, but it is a big step backwards as I explained earlier.

[Oracle]

Why are you offering me a health warning ... do you perhaps think three civil posts are my limit and then I turn abusive

OK ... not a game! In that case, I accept that you know better. That TCs are indeed unique in not being fully developed as free-thinking human beings and will self-destruct if faced with the harsh reality of only one vote per person ... So they want more.

Please tell me though Bir., why we GCs, who struggle &, strive with developing further as individuals (responsible beings) to motivate each other, should be lumbered with such a workload as to take in under our wings, backward (Literary Licence) people as the type of people you portray these beasts (LL) to be?

Why would we voluntarily take in a cuckoo which will be so demanding it will sap as dry whilst it is fed and nurtured at our expense ...

We do not need baggage. TCs join as equals; otherwise by your formula, I take it they are not worth harbouring, and we should look towards a solution without them.

Bir., ....you obviously have allowances up your sleeve, which you think we should make ... so spill the beans and end the frustration ....

You call this a civilised post???? You obviously get pleasure from mind-masturbation techniques like these,but all you are doing is proving the fears of the average TC that you are not fit to share a country with...

I take delight in the knowledge that you are indeed a figment of someone else's twisted imagination...You cannot be a real person,and I am not in the habit of talking to invisible entities...

How dare you make me think you were capable of debate Bir ...

You have strung me along! There I was dissecting points and demonstrating inferences from your views on TCs and all along you did not have a clue what you were talking about.

Sorry Bir I made the mistake of assuming you were able to debate with the hypothetical establishment of ideas which you generated by brandishing the TCs as some kind of "unique" helpless pack, which needed special fostering.

I cannot see how you can crumble from the midst of a discussion into throwing abuses at me.

Can you not see I was showing you with how this hypothetical conclusion could be made from what you say the TCs are like.

I wrongfully assumed we were dissecting points and the conclusions which could be derived from what you were saying about the TCs

Is this what an attempt at an in-depth discussion with you is like?

You were asking for solutions based on discriminatory demands for the TCs; asserting the fact that they are not ready to develop into civilised Europeans.

If you analysed what I said as part of our continuing discussion, you should have seen you were trying to sell the TCs as an overly expensive project for returning to united Cyprus ...

But you Bir are not actually doing the TCs any favours by making them out to be in need of special attention.

To me that reeks of discrimination.

]This is my wish too,Piratis....It makes perfect sense to me..Why should we entrench our differences and carry them over for eternity??? It would be asking for trouble....[b]But it looks as if it is too long a jump for the TCs... ...[/b]

It makes perfect sense to you ?

Why, because you are gifted of reason?

So why would it not make perfect sense to TCs also?

Why, because you have decided they are not as clever as you?

I asked you to explain that statement further for me, because you appeared to be discriminating against the TCs.

You are patronising them. You are evaluating yourself (by associating yourself with Piratis) as being more enlightened than the TCs.

Can you not see Bir ?... You are a racist against your own race (if I believed race distinctions exist, which I don't)

Please explain that sentence for me BirKibrisli. Because if I said it I would be accused of racism.

If I said everyone else can see logic and reason and fairness ... but this is too much for TCs ... I would be accused of being a Nationalist GC.

I asked for an explanation Bir ....

In fact, I gifted you with the possessing higher capabilities you attributed to yourself, by associating yourself with Piratis; that perhaps you were playing one of those "shoe-on-the-other-foot" experiments

I suspect you could only be playing a psychological game.

You will turn around and say .... this is precisely what Nationalist GCs think of TCs .... that they are too stupid, backward and too different to see things our way .... to see that forgetting our differences, is the only way to go forward ...

I could not quite believe how lowly you set the TCs.

I asked for an explanation why you think so lowly of the TCs ....

Please explain if you are proving a point .... otherwise you are not making logical sense ....

Can you fail to understand why I am confused as to why [b]you brandish TCs as unworthy of being treated equally?

[/b]If TCs were truly as you portray them, we are surely lost ... and in my frustration this would make me say worse things about TCs (which I would hope they do not deserve, but you are doing a good job of making them sound as though they deserve derision) ... and next thing will be that Kifeas pops up wielding wrath ... [/b]

This was your answer to the above ....

It is very simple,Oracle. Blind Freddie can see now that we cannot go from where we are to a unitary state based on one-vote one -value democracy...It is the reality I have come to accept...I wish it was different but it is not...So I am now wondering...Can we possibly agree on an interm step,a temporary solution which will keep the way open for true unification some time in the future...???Or do we refuse to budge from our ideal solution and wait for "the balance of power to change"...Try to answer the question without throwing insults about,please...

So you confirmed that my hypothetical conclusion, inferred from your views, had correctly assessed the TCs as inferior .... but this was based on what you said about TCs.

I was asking you if that is what you were suggesting the TCs were like. I was puzzling as to the extent of the inferiority that you were placing the TCs ...... and you confirmed that is how you saw the TCs.

Not I Bir ... it is the natural conclusion from what you are going around saying about the TCs

If you were GC and you spoke for me in that patronising "I am better than my own people, and only I can see that they are so stupid they need to be discriminated with special favours" .... I would not be pleased at all!

Bir ... I have had many a "discussion" with you where you have made a statement and I have tried to find out why you made it and the thinking behind it.

In fact it is always you that loses your temper and turns abusive ... You though use the fact that I have the "reputation" and turn to low point scoring by throwing further abuse at me.

You are no different to many others.

You have prejudices BirKibrisli ... mostly that you think you are better than all the other TCs

And you think you are better than me because you blindingly see yourself as reasonable, when you are far from that.

You know what Bir ... I have finally sussed you out:

You think you are better than everybody.