Cyprus-Forum.com

[repulsewarrior]

Muzzy,terrible things were done by both sides,there is no doubt about that.
The question is have we learned our lessons?? Are we prepared to show understanding and compassion towards each other...???Has the world around us changed enough to make a repeat of the past attrocities impossible????

After all we went through as Cypriots,can we now acknowledge our mistakes,ask forgiveness and move on???Can we now embrace each other as Cypriots first and foremost and put the interests of our homeland first????

Are we mature enough now to see how we were played one against the other,divided and ruled,and how this is still continuing???And so on and so forth...The answers you will give to these questions will determine your attitude to the future...I would answer in the affirmative to all these questions,with some reservations in certain areas...But I will not blame you if you answer in the negative...I understand where you are coming from..and I respect your decision as long as it is a sincerely held belief and not based on any expectant real or imaginary gain ....

...After all we went through as Cypriots,can we now acknowledge our mistakes,ask forgiveness and move on???Can we now embrace each other as Cypriots first and foremost and put the interests of our homeland first????...

our fight is against the evil we call Ignorance, the suffering we deny, the fear we have in embracing changes in ourselves that make living better (for all of us).

acts, not words. we are women and men; not Greeks or Turks, but Greeks and Turks. otherwise we betray those who were made to pay an ultimate price for this Freedom, we allow the plunder to take the place of our Grace. in Cyprus, we are a small population, surely it is possible to demonstrate these Principals to the rest Mankind, in gratitude, having this opportunity to end our subjugation after thousands of years, ourselves.

we have passed the Modern Age, with its results having affected us by leaving this island scarred with a Green Line, long forgotten in Berlin, and no longer in Beirut. This impasse remains, and if ignored will fester again. yet, at the advent of this new Age we are well situated to embark in an urban lifestyle where our distictions can add to our abilities in social-exchange; united, gaining this economy of scale.

...i ask forgiveness for us all, and i am ashamed of the result; i want to change myself, with my acts i make things better.

[Kikapu]

Bir, progress can only be made when we ALL acknowledge the events of past history. I never said that all GC's were/are evil but if you read the majority of the GC posts on this site what real hope is there for the future. And they have the temerity to insist that the Treaty of Guarantee be annulled and that all Turkish troops go home, even rejecting a symbolic 650 troop contingent. Our experience as a community, whether they, or you for that matter, like it or not dictate that a continued Turkish presence is absolutely imperative. A negotiated settlement must be realistic.

Muzzy,

Since we are all trying to get to the truth as to what happened and who was responsible for past events from 1958 to present, no one side is denying their role in killings, rapes, torture and more. The only thing I find very disturbing and in a way it is almost an criminal act, that when a TC describes their treatment at the hands of the GC's/Greeks, they are very descriptive to the last details of their suffering, and then they just make an acknowledgment that the GC's also suffered. And the same is done by the GC's about their sufferings at the hands of the TC's/Turks to the last detail, but again, just a simple acknowledgment of the TC sufferings. This is a complete dishonesty and an insult to all those who died in the past and would spit in our faces if they knew that we are making light of their sufferings by those who did the crimes against them, and here we are, as we are all waiting for negotiations to bear some fruit, we are still at it.

Since we are seeking the truth, and I have made this point few times recently, that Christofias has publicly acknowledged the sufferings of the TC's before meeting with Talat in March. I am still waiting for Talat to do the same. So Muzzy, the leader of the GC community took bold steps to take responsibility for past actions, and here you are now, complaining that they have not shown any regrets of their past actions. Don't you think Talat should also rise to the occasion and do the same. If nothing comes from Talat, I doubt very much that Christofias will make anymore such acknowledgements of past wrong doings, and who can blame him.

Since the 1960 Constitution was written for the purpose of a Unitary state, is where all the provision in that constitution belong, but since the TC's do not want the Unitary state anymore, and I doubt it can even work even if the TC's wanted without making the 13 amendment that Makarios wanted, so now the TC's want a BBF (Confederacy) under the disguise of a Federation. Well, guess what. As soon as we alter the Unitary state into a Federation-Confederation all the provisions in the 1960 Constitution no longer apply, is the reason why the GC's are demanding changes to the Guarantorship of the outsiders, as well as rejection of the 50-50 power share and the Veto vote, as well as many others. This is the danger for the TC's in wanting something different than the original deal. Anyway, I'm going to wait for the outcome of the negotiations and not get into pointless slug match with abuses thrown around, when you guys might have to kiss and make up later on if peace is reached, because peace signing is just a document, implementing it will be the hard part. Just like marriage, it will need to be worked on every bloody day, so you guys should save all your energies to work on any peace plan that is given to us soon I hope.

[repulsewarrior]

very interesting post K, thank-you.

[EPSILON]

Turks or T/cs -same for me.

Pls understand that the certain Island of Cyprus is Greek not because modern Greece ever invated or occupy the Island - Is Geek because it was always Greek- Not as part of Greek state but is Greek itselve.

Even you feel that you won the game because of 1974 , even "problem" be somehow solved, finally it will continue to be Greek for a simple reason "MONGOLIAN CIVILIZATION CAN NOT BE COMPARED AND OVERCOME THE GREEK CIVILIZATION"

EPSILON SPOKE

[denizaksulu]

Not all Greeks were ejected from their homes in 1974. The fear of 'death' pervaded the population. Why do you think things were different in 1963 when fighting was taking place all over the island. The real fear existed then too. Yet you do not accept this.

So TCs and GCs have one thing in common, Turkey has instilled fear in both communities.

To TCs it was a manufactured fear of the unknown and possibilities .... and to the GCs it was real fear through killing thousands of us for centuries....

Sorry, seem not to have made myself clear. Some GCs had left without a gun pointing at their heads. Others were. The point I was making that fear for your life was often enough tomake you seek shelter with bigger numbers.

[Oracle]

Not all Greeks were ejected from their homes in 1974. The fear of 'death' pervaded the population. Why do you think things were different in 1963 when fighting was taking place all over the island. The real fear existed then too. Yet you do not accept this.

So TCs and GCs have one thing in common, Turkey has instilled fear in both communities.

To TCs it was a manufactured fear of the unknown and possibilities .... and to the GCs it was real fear through killing thousands of us for centuries....

Sorry, seem not to have made myself clear. Some GCs had left without a gun pointing at their heads. Others were. The point I was making that fear for your life was often enough tomake you seek shelter with bigger numbers.

How does what you say change what I said, or even add to it?

We have living proof of the real cost of Turkey's invasion ... you have hearsay ...

[denizaksulu]

Not all Greeks were ejected from their homes in 1974. The fear of 'death' pervaded the population. Why do you think things were different in 1963 when fighting was taking place all over the island. The real fear existed then too. Yet you do not accept this.

So TCs and GCs have one thing in common, Turkey has instilled fear in both communities.

To TCs it was a manufactured fear of the unknown and possibilities .... and to the GCs it was real fear through killing thousands of us for centuries....

Sorry, seem not to have made myself clear. Some GCs had left without a gun pointing at their heads. Others were. The point I was making that fear for your life was often enough tomake you seek shelter with bigger numbers.

How does what you say change what I said, or even add to it?

We have living proof of the real cost of Turkey's invasion ... you have hearsay ...

Simply wrong, O.

[BirKibrisli]

Deniz,do yourself a favour and stop trying to make Oracle or GR see any sense...They are deaf and blind to any logic or fact or even personal pain and suffering,unless it is their own...I agree with Kikapu that it is simply disgraceful to deny or minimise the other side's pain,and put all the blame on one side...This is what these two unholy partners are doing,and I think they should be left all to themselves to hold hands and chant their mantras,"Turks are evil" "TCs are all criminals and traitors"...

I take comfort in the knowledge that we also have people like Bananiot and repulsewarrior who remind me that understanding and compassion are universal human values,and those who embrace these qualities grow in statue as human beings...I have given up all hope that a solution will be found without going trough a realistic and painful period of grieving,healing and reconciliation...Since there are no moves to bring about such a period we are condemned to attack each other like rats in a cage...

[miltiades]

What part of your posts did I ignore Muzzy? The manufactured personal stories of yours? With lies you are trying to exaggerate by a factor of 100 the suffering of TCs in that one decade, while you forget (1) the suffering of GCs during the same period, (2) the fact that you are the ones who started that conflict, (3) all the other conflicts which you started, before and after that one decade. And why you do this? In order to excuse even more crimes against us!

So these are stories that I've 'manufactured' are they ? You ignorrant, offensive, blinkered denier. What a waste of space you are Piratis, a true waste of space.

If ever there was an argument for us Turkish Cypriots to never trust your community then you have just provided it. You sick individual.

'Remove your life jacket and everything will be allright.'

You are no more Turkish Cypriot than I'm .You are a Turk so dont abuse the name Turkish Cypriot and dont stick your nose into the Cyprus problem until YOU become a Turkish Cypriot !!

[Muzzy70]

What part of your posts did I ignore Muzzy? The manufactured personal stories of yours? With lies you are trying to exaggerate by a factor of 100 the suffering of TCs in that one decade, while you forget (1) the suffering of GCs during the same period, (2) the fact that you are the ones who started that conflict, (3) all the other conflicts which you started, before and after that one decade. And why you do this? In order to excuse even more crimes against us!

So these are stories that I've 'manufactured' are they ? You ignorrant, offensive, blinkered denier. What a waste of space you are Piratis, a true waste of space.

If ever there was an argument for us Turkish Cypriots to never trust your community then you have just provided it. You sick individual.

'Remove your life jacket and everything will be allright.'

You are no more Turkish Cypriot than I'm .You are a Turk so dont abuse the name Turkish Cypriot and dont stick your nose into the Cyprus problem until YOU become a Turkish Cypriot !!

Oh how I laughed mili ! What gives you the right to dictate how I feel about my own heritage and ethnicity ? A typically arrogant GC post.