Cyprus-Forum.com

[Oracle]

So you do not want the Turkish army gone?

The settler reduced to a minimum?

Land return?

Right to live where you wish?

Return of Maraş?

One country?

What the hell do you want? No I already know that...

You mean everything we had before you had a nervous breakdown and gifted nearly half the island to a foreign country!

What precisely have you achieved?

Why should we trust you back in the fold again?

Why shouldn't we just expect you to leave and join your mainlander brothers?

What do the TCs have to offer us in the future?

How can we trust they won't go psycho again and let another foreign occupier in to massacre more Cypriots and split the country to hold to ransom for some other prize?

[kentish]

well you are sharing it and the turkish army will never leave,the peace keeping force is there to stay .get used to it.

[growuptcs]

kentish:
well you are sharing it and the turkish army will never leave,the peace keeping force is there to stay .get used to it.

Don't be so sure ken. Because of us GC's, we're dissecting your so called leaders in charge that come up empty like yourself. The sh_t is hitting the fan, and your still denying its shit on the ceiling. The truth always comes out in the end ken, where GC's are the rightful owners. You can keep fighting it. For now.

[repulsewarrior]

As we all know Turkey is the puppeteer, the one who takes all the important decisions about what the TC community should do. TCs, the puppets, have no real say.

Why this is the case, and why this has been the case since the 50s is simple:

When the overwhelming majority of Cypriots were fighting for their freedom, the UK and Turkey promised to the TC minority that if they helped them to oppress the revolution of the Cypriot people they would grand to the TCs disproportionately large gains on the loss of the rest of Cypriots, such as 30% goverment positions, or event partition. (classic "divide and rule" recipe that always works)

The same foreigners continue to have interests in Cyprus, continue to want to divide and rule our island, and therefore they continue to bribe TCs by promising to them gains on our loss. The TCs on the other hand gladly accept the gains offered to them, but they know that the only way to have those gains and maintain them is to be good puppets and do what they are told by those foreigners.

Say for example that we agree on some so called "solution" where the TCs are given 50% power, 30% of our land etc. Our "partner" will not be the TC community but Turkey itself. The TCs will know fully well that these unfair and disproportionate gains that they were given are due to the force used by Turkey, and therefore they will continue to be the puppets of Turkey so that Turkey will continue to apply the force required for those unfair gains to be maintained.

The TCs say: "But we do not trust you, that is why we need Turkey". Of course you can not trust us to give up our human and democratic rights, of course you need to use force in order to take away those rights from us and have unfair gains against us, and of course you need and you will always need Turkey to use this force in order to maintain those unfair gains. Therefore, under such conditions, you will never trust us and you will always be the puppets of Turkey.

This is why such kind of "solutions", not only are bad and harmful today, but they have absolutely no good prospects for the future either.

A real solution is the one that will truly unite Cyprus and its people, that will bring democracy and human rights, and that will give to the TC minority their fair share of land and power. This way Cypriots will not be separated into two conflicting camps but they will have common interests, TCs will gradually learn to trust the GCs because GCs can be trusted to accept what is fair, and the TCs will have their proportional share of power that will be truly theirs (not Turkey's) because they will not need the big guns of Turkey to force unfair things anymore and therefore they will not need to continue to return the "favor" to Turkey by being its puppets.

The solution to the Cyprus problem can not be very different from what I describe above.

Small Cyprus is chained and wounded. There might be several available options for committing suicide, but a solution that will truly cure Cyprus is not readily available, it is not easy, and it is not certain, but we have no other choice than to keep fighting for it.

This is my wish too,Piratis....It makes perfect sense to me..Why should we entrench our differences and carry them over for eternity??? It would be asking for trouble....But it looks as if it is too long a jump for the TCs...
And for Turkey of course...So if we can't achieve this ideal solution,can you tell us what would be your second choice???? I am talking about solutions,not "waiting for the balance of power to change" because that is not a solution,it is a strategy...

Please explain that sentence for me BirKibrisli.

Because if I said it I would be accused of racism.

If I said everyone else can see logic and reason and fairness ... but this is too much for TCs ... I would be accused of being a Nationalist GC.

I suspect you could only be playing a psychological game.

You will turn around and say .... this is precisely what Nationalist GCs think of TCs .... that they are too stupid, backward and too different to see things our way .... to see that forgetting our differences, is the only way to go forward ...

Please explain if you are proving a point .... otherwise you are not making logical sense ....

If TCs were truly as you portray them, we are surely lost ... and in my frustration this would make me say worse things about TCs (which I would hope they do not deserve, but you are doing a good job of making them sound as though they deserve derision) ... and next thing will be that Kifeas pops up wielding wrath ...

So if TCs are not like that.. you will say then we are not lost! So maybe they are ...

Explain please Bir.

It is very simple,Oracle. Blind Freddie can see now that we cannot go from where we are to a unitary state based on one-vote one -value democracy...It is the reality I have come to accept...I wish it was different but it is not...So I am now wondering...Can we possibly agree on an interm step,a temporary solution which will keep the way open for true unification some time in the future...???Or do we refuse to budge from our ideal solution and wait for "the balance of power to change"...Try to answer the question without throwing insults about,please...

...or can we consider futuristicly the consequences of peace in the Middle East, and in Africa, some time in the future where our demographics will be completely different, and where our identity as persons (as we know it today) will be rarer, as a minority which is worth sustaining within a populationmuch larger. Is it possible that our society can evolve to be the most socialistic in the world with our Rights as Individuals, clearly defended as the island dwellers, Sovereign over the land, being a State, while as persons we may choose to sustain the representation of this Goodwill by many Nations united toward this cause.

Unitary State, absolutely. Bicommunal as yet remains undefined.

frankly I am very disappointed that my Manifesto is not taken seriously...

[Get Real!]

frankly I am very disappointed that my Manifesto is not taken seriously...

Repulse, as is the case with ALL non-democratic political arrangement plans, one must address every single detail of such a complex co-existence, and that would be an enormous undertaking for an individual, and it should be no surprise to us why the AP was some nine thousand pages long.

[Kifeas]

well you are sharing it and the turkish army will never leave,the peace keeping force is there to stay .get used to it.

Appart from the slogans they taught you to herald or sing in Turkish schools and /or when serving the Turkish army, who else says so, Kentish?

Such a “never” thing, Kentish, doesn’t even exist in the Koran, not that it would have made any difference! Kentish, do you know how many foreign armies –some of which even bigger and stronger than the Turkish one, have invaded and occupied Cyprus during our very long historical presence in this country, many of which staying for centuries and not just a handful of decades? Very many, kentish! Yet, Kentish, they have all gone one day, and the only ones that have NEVER left and gone from here, it is us Greek Cypriots!

Kentish, two very important things you should have already learned in your life! The first, Kentish, is never to say “never!” The second, Kentish, is that when trying to deal with another people (or an opponent,) the best thing you should do is to try and learn their history first!

[repulsewarrior]

...A State with its strong central Government, and two National Assemblies is not complex.

enclaves serve the need for restitution, to communities, and they serve in that any frontier cannot become a border. there is no other way that I can see to define the word "Bizonal", you?

[repulsewarrior]

...and two hundred years from now, will it not be possible to sustain more complex personal distinctions, because, as we know by then, without this recognition neither Turkish or Greek will survive, neither will we be prepared to embrace the changes we will have to make as an Inclusive People, and in competition with other Global Partners.

[Viewpoint]

So you do not want the Turkish army gone?

The settler reduced to a minimum?

Land return?

Right to live where you wish?

Return of Maraş?

One country?

What the hell do you want? No I already know that...

You mean everything we had before you had a nervous breakdown and gifted nearly half the island to a foreign country!

What precisely have you achieved?

Why should we trust you back in the fold again?

Why shouldn't we just expect you to leave and join your mainlander brothers?

What do the TCs have to offer us in the future?

How can we trust they won't go psycho again and let another foreign occupier in to massacre more Cypriots and split the country to hold to ransom for some other prize?

Now be the good shit stirer that you are and reverse all the above questions and answer them yourself.

[Viewpoint]

well you are sharing it and the turkish army will never leave,the peace keeping force is there to stay .get used to it.

Appart from the slogans they taught you to herald or sing in Turkish schools and /or when serving the Turkish army, who else says so, Kentish?

Such a “never” thing, Kentish, doesn’t even exist in the Koran, not that it would have made any difference! Kentish, do you know how many foreign armies –some of which even bigger and stronger than the Turkish one, have invaded and occupied Cyprus during our very long historical presence in this country, many of which staying for centuries and not just a handful of decades? Very many, kentish! Yet, Kentish, they have all gone one day, and the only ones that have NEVER left and gone from here, it is us Greek Cypriots!

Kentish, two very important things you should have already learned in your life! The first, Kentish, is never to say “never!” The second, Kentish, is that when trying to deal with another people (or an opponent,) the best thing you should do is to try and learn their history first!

You appear to be trying to convince yourself more than anyone else Kifeas, without a solution we can commit to the Turkish Army is here to stay the sooner you get used to that the better.