Cyprus-Forum.com

[miltiades]

in the uk our mp's , have a mix of different racial backgrounds, it seems to work because most communities feel they have representation. same in the army and police.

How many MPs have a " mix of different racial background " out of a
total of 659 ?
It is functioning because , as yet , the British system has not given in to the demands of some sizable minorities to have their own legislature based on some archaic medieval entity.
Furthermore all of Britain comes under the authority of the British government .

[BirKibrisli]

Hasan HASTURER is a columnist with the daily trnc newspaper,KIBRIS...

From what I hear he is a very respected journalist...I came across one of his columns recently which I found interesting...I am not in agreement with everything he says neccessarily,but those who are curious about what is going on in more "liberal" TC minds at this crucial time should keep on reading...

Hasturer argues that Christofias is handicapped in the current negotiations because of a historically inherited "chronic" preconception regarding the TCs...He suggests that for hundreds of years now the GCs have considered the TCs to be inferior to themselves culturally,economically,socially and politically...

I quote selectively:


"...The GCs,who have been in Cyprus for far longer than us,have always been more motivated in influencing the fate and the future of Cyprus... This was especially evident during the British rule...Their demand was for Enosis before independence...The emerging TC leadership was never able to put forward a credible alternative....After the Lausanne agreement Cyprus became a foreign country for Turkey...Under the circumstances the TC policy became one of hanging onto the British skirts...This was far from being a principled stand...
Economically too we were unable to make our mark...we never learned to stand on our own two feet...Even during the Ottoman rule TCs had little to do with administration...Later on with Eoka, with the exception of Grivas,who was of Cypriot origins anyway,all the key positions were held by GCs...But the TMT was always run by colonels from the Turkish army...
Even in rural centres the commander was from Turkey...Over the years the TCs could never manage to become a distinct community,enough to demand political equality with the GCs...[b]Hence the preconception that they were a lower class of people only fit to make "lokma" and "shamishi"...[/b]

What do you think???Is this the real reason why the GCs are finding it very hard to accept the TCs as their political equals????


For Turkish speakers the link is:
http://www.kibrisgazetesi.com/index.php/cat/1/col/80/art/8377/PageName/Ana_sayfa

Something every TC has known all along, with the exception of yourself and Kikapu. As for you and Kikapu, I can only guess you are easily fooled. If you 2 think you are equal to the Greeks because you happen to exchange a few messages on a forum or get to know a few on your visits to the south you are very mistaken.

To the Greeks/GCs we are nothing but bellondo Turko.

Bir, welcome back,

While you were away, GR and I uncovered the mask of who unitedwestand is, but he chooses to continue staying in the "closet". He is no other than our friend MR-from-NG. One of these days, he will come out of the "closet", but he is a little shy right now.

Another one of your signature posts above MR-from-NG.

I'm watching your every move MR-from-NG..

Well....If Chimera can become Phoenix and develop into Oracle...and if they can all be a product of GR's ferocious imagination...Mitch can become UWS....

I must confess my desire sometimes to reinvent myself as Mae West or Dracula or something....

[BirKibrisli]

And Kikapu....Whatever happened to Zan???????

I doubt that he would simply go away....

[BirKibrisli]

Two options face us.

Option One:
Continue as communities knowing we both have "pasts" (incompatible ethnicity) which will forever be used (like religion was) to keep us chained, the chain being long enough to allow us, when fully extended, to shake outstretched hands but never to get close enough to hug.

Option Two:
Develop into Individuals adopting and practicing Human Rights and Democracy (replacing both religion and ethnicity). Only our personal chains under control from our free Will, allowed to rule how far we go.

We only managed to get half way last time. Functioning as a secular government where religion was not given any extra power (veto, disproportional strength etc) or recognition. But ethnicity/community was given this extra power and control to bring into the politics.

And that inherent communal-ethnic difference (D) in power and control was abused (by outsiders), because it is a variable and easily subject to manipulation and wielding.

The only quantifiable constant being the power and control an individual has.

BBF perpetuates Option One, allowing the existence/perpetuation of the unknown D (which can be picked up by the wrong hands anytime, to control and differentiate us).

Let's go the whole way with Option Two. Remove unknowns, variables, unquantifiable Ds. Then no outsiders can increase / decrease D (the length of the metaphorical chain) teasing us, like Tantalus to view the grapes but never manage to reach them.

Abolish both ethnicity* and religion* from entering politics. Get rid of the tool with which we were manipulated; communal ethnicity.

( * Protected for the individual free Will, within Human Rights anyway).

BTW .... Schizophrenics are more likely to choose option One, not Two!

I would go for Option Two any day,Oracle...
I have always argued that any BBF or special power-sharing arrangement would only perpetuate our "differences" and set in concrete the essense of our conflict...But this option is not aceptable to Turkey or the TCs...We need to face the reality of this...It is too big a step for the TCs...So we need a stepping stone...Why don't you apply your great talents to come up with a suggestion???? And forget about the stick option...Carrots work much better with Turks and TCs...

[miltiades]

Hasan HASTURER is a columnist with the daily trnc newspaper,KIBRIS...

From what I hear he is a very respected journalist...I came across one of his columns recently which I found interesting...I am not in agreement with everything he says neccessarily,but those who are curious about what is going on in more "liberal" TC minds at this crucial time should keep on reading...

Hasturer argues that Christofias is handicapped in the current negotiations because of a historically inherited "chronic" preconception regarding the TCs...He suggests that for hundreds of years now the GCs have considered the TCs to be inferior to themselves culturally,economically,socially and politically...

I quote selectively:


"...The GCs,who have been in Cyprus for far longer than us,have always been more motivated in influencing the fate and the future of Cyprus... This was especially evident during the British rule...Their demand was for Enosis before independence...The emerging TC leadership was never able to put forward a credible alternative....After the Lausanne agreement Cyprus became a foreign country for Turkey...Under the circumstances the TC policy became one of hanging onto the British skirts...This was far from being a principled stand...
Economically too we were unable to make our mark...we never learned to stand on our own two feet...Even during the Ottoman rule TCs had little to do with administration...Later on with Eoka, with the exception of Grivas,who was of Cypriot origins anyway,all the key positions were held by GCs...But the TMT was always run by colonels from the Turkish army...
Even in rural centres the commander was from Turkey...Over the years the TCs could never manage to become a distinct community,enough to demand political equality with the GCs...[b]Hence the preconception that they were a lower class of people only fit to make "lokma" and "shamishi"...[/b]

What do you think???Is this the real reason why the GCs are finding it very hard to accept the TCs as their political equals????


For Turkish speakers the link is:
http://www.kibrisgazetesi.com/index.php/cat/1/col/80/art/8377/PageName/Ana_sayfa

Something every TC has known all along, with the exception of yourself and Kikapu. As for you and Kikapu, I can only guess you are easily fooled. If you 2 think you are equal to the Greeks because you happen to exchange a few messages on a forum or get to know a few on your visits to the south you are very mistaken.

To the Greeks/GCs we are nothing but bellondo Turko.

Bir, welcome back,

While you were away, GR and I uncovered the mask of who unitedwestand is, but he chooses to continue staying in the "closet". He is no other than our friend MR-from-NG. One of these days, he will come out of the "closet", but he is a little shy right now.

Another one of your signature posts above MR-from-NG.

I'm watching your every move MR-from-NG..

Well....If Chimera can become Phoenix and develop into Oracle...and if they can all be a product of GR's ferocious imagination...Mitch can become UWS....

I must confess my desire sometimes to reinvent myself as Mae West or Dracula or something....

I can assure you that GR is most certainly unique !! He is no Oracle !!
As for UWS being Mr-from-NG a mere figment of the imagination I'm afraid .
I'm seriously considering the creation of another Miltiades one that would keep GR mentally alert in utilising his amazing abilities to spod speleing mistikes , he sims to enjoe such activitis hugeley , coupled with hes extraortinari perceptions on what consitudes a paragraf !!!!

[Oracle]

Two options face us.

Option One:
Continue as communities knowing we both have "pasts" (incompatible ethnicity) which will forever be used (like religion was) to keep us chained, the chain being long enough to allow us, when fully extended, to shake outstretched hands but never to get close enough to hug.

Option Two:
Develop into Individuals adopting and practicing Human Rights and Democracy (replacing both religion and ethnicity). Only our personal chains under control from our free Will, allowed to rule how far we go.

We only managed to get half way last time. Functioning as a secular government where religion was not given any extra power (veto, disproportional strength etc) or recognition. But ethnicity/community was given this extra power and control to bring into the politics.

And that inherent communal-ethnic difference (D) in power and control was abused (by outsiders), because it is a variable and easily subject to manipulation and wielding.

The only quantifiable constant being the power and control an individual has.

BBF perpetuates Option One, allowing the existence/perpetuation of the unknown D (which can be picked up by the wrong hands anytime, to control and differentiate us).

Let's go the whole way with Option Two. Remove unknowns, variables, unquantifiable Ds. Then no outsiders can increase / decrease D (the length of the metaphorical chain) teasing us, like Tantalus to view the grapes but never manage to reach them.

Abolish both ethnicity* and religion* from entering politics. Get rid of the tool with which we were manipulated; communal ethnicity.

( * Protected for the individual free Will, within Human Rights anyway).

BTW .... Schizophrenics are more likely to choose option One, not Two!

I would go for Option Two any day,Oracle...
I have always argued that any BBF or special power-sharing arrangement would only perpetuate our "differences" and set in concrete the essense of our conflict...But this option is not aceptable to Turkey or the TCs...We need to face the reality of this...It is too big a step for the TCs...So we need a stepping stone...Why don't you apply your great talents to come up with a suggestion???? And forget about the stick option...Carrots work much better with Turks and TCs...

I can't for the life of me fathom how you can equate that sentiment with respecting people.

First you imply Turk-TCs are like a flock of sheep, unable to think as individuals!

Then, that they are also immature, conditionable with offerings, for personal gratification. No emotional intelligence between the lot of them. Unable to accept delayed gratification for the long-term good.

Bir, you present them as a most unappealing package ...

Are they really like that?

If they are, then, individually I can love them; but as a herd I hate them!

(To the literal thinking morons amongst us, who fail to comprehend my choice of words, e.g."hate"..... Please note; I exercise Linguistic License. )

[Kifeas]

Chimera that became Phoenix and then developed into Oracle, please make sure you are not around when I will too begin excercising "....Linguistic License!"

[miltiades]

Chimera that became Phoenix and then developed into Oracle, please make sure you are not around when I will too begin excercising "....Linguistic License!"

Kifeas what is your birth sign ?
ps.do keep a lid on exercising that lethal.....LL !

[Oracle]

Chimera that became Phoenix and then developed into Oracle, please make sure you are not around when I will too begin excercising "....Linguistic License!"

Why does everyone always forget my favourite? ... Boumboulina! ... the Turk slayer!


My fiery compatriot Kifeas ......

Boumboulina she beg you, no be too hard, please, on my naughty sisters because they say they love you like little child and you not all grown up yet, still need comfort of friendly bosom. Maybe Kifeas, he read too much bad stuff, never see good stuff sisters write, they misunderstood!

Please to look again Kifeas, at Options of Oracle, they no so bad, eh? ... and she say sorry for using bad word .... how you say ah yes! .... Schizophrenic...

[BirKibrisli]

I can assure you that GR is most certainly unique !! He is no Oracle !!
As for UWS being Mr-from-NG a mere figment of the imagination I'm afraid .
I'm seriously considering the creation of another Miltiades one that would keep GR mentally alert in utilising his amazing abilities to spod speleing mistikes , he sims to enjoe such activitis hugeley , coupled with hes extraortinari perceptions on what consitudes a paragraf !!!!

vell....dear miltiades...fil fre two reinivente urselve az everyevan iz dzoing it....fr miyselve mi vill tyr tso dso mi bvest two mke cents!!!