Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

His command of the English language was good but whats it important is the positive message he is trying to purvey, he comes across as wanting to genuinely include the TCs in a solution. The very important factor for me is the political equality issue if it has Bananiot states then a great deal of the obstacles have finally been removed.

The most you can expect on this VP is equality on certain sensitive issues on a federal level. Anything else will be turned down by a referendum. Anyne who tries to sell the formula 18=82 will fail.

Thats what wwe have been saying all along we do not want to delay or stop the daily running of the country as we to would be effected but we do need the right to say no just as you do in the EU.

VP,

I'm just playing word games here, so keep calm.!!

First you mention in wanting political equality and in the same breath, you say you want a veto power. But doesn't a
veto power in essence becomes political inequality since it will give you a 100% decision making power, so where is the political equality in that.??

There has to be a better way to protect the interests of the TC's than a veto power. Don't forget, we had veto power before and it did not work.

If the veto right is predetermined on sensitive issues whats the problem? The same system exists in the EU I don't see you complaining, if its inequality then give it up tell the EU you don't want veto rights over Turkey accession. The objections to veto on sensitive issues only fuels mistrust, if GCs do not intend on exploiting certain issues against the will of the TCs then why not accept our right to say no, if they do not mess up then we will not have to use our right, I get the impression they do not trust themselves and their only aim is to get the right to pulverize us into minority status in a GC state run by GCs.

[Rebel.Without.A.Pause]

Dont get to excited recognition is on the back burner untill a time we and everyone else realizes that we can never find a solution, the TRNC will continue as is and we will be demanding recognition becuase the GCs said NO once again, but for now if BBF with political equality is on offer we will take it, its up to you to bring home another rejection.

You sound like the cheesiest of cartoon baddys lol

Nothing will continue as it is. Get used to that ya theif.

[Nikitas]

What stayed with me was the reference to "transformation of the unitary state into a BBF" while stressing a unitary legal personality, single sovereignty and a single nationality. These terms were expressly used leaving no ambiguities, thus giving a strong message to any attempts to introduce separation elements in a future solution.

Then we have the British bases. Again, the express terms were that their status will be resolved with reference to the 1960 agreements, thus giving a final blow to any ideas of separation and the ridiculous concept of virgin birth etc. Britan has bases solely due to the 60 agreement and no other and is not likely to risk losing that right and starting afresh.

They also introduced the EU and its principles as an essential element in the solution mix, thus nixing Turkish attempts to sidestep it.

As for the language, demeanour and body language, Christofias is definitely not the down home guy riding tractors that some people said in this forum not so long ago.

[Bananiot]

Christofias is also good at balancing acts. Only last week he got the rejectionists turn red with anger after the communique was read following his meeting with Talat. Now, the rejectionists (bar Sillouris) came out in support, publicly at least, of his actions. BBF is slowly but steadily sinking in.

[Get Real!]

Christofias is also good at balancing acts. Only last week he got the rejectionists turn red with anger after the communique was read following his meeting with Talat. Now, the rejectionists (bar Sillouris) came out in support, publicly at least, of his actions. BBF is slowly but steadily sinking in.

If history is anything to go by your predictions always come out the opposite so keep them coming...

[Kikapu]

Christofias is also good at balancing acts. Only last week he got the rejectionists turn red with anger after the communique was read following his meeting with Talat. Now, the rejectionists (bar Sillouris) came out in support, publicly at least, of his actions. BBF is slowly but steadily sinking in.

Bananiot,

I know we never did finish our conversation on the Annan Plan, but can you very quickly tell me what does BBF EXACTLY means to you.??

If your response is same as the 2004 AP, then no further comments from you will be nessary to answer my question, because 2004 AP would have done it for you.

Thanks.

[Bananiot]

Then you have nothing to worry about GR. Then, I rememmber someone being absolutely sure that Papadopoulos would stay on our shoulders for another 5 years ...

[Bananiot]

One country, one sovereignty, one nationality, two component states, each with a guaranteed majority because of bizonality (and some other reasons), each community attends to its business, equality which is not based on numbers but is based on equal share of power. I think these have been basically agreed by Christofias and Talat.

Kikapu, had you asked me this question 35 years ago, perhaps I would have given you a different answer. My answer today takes into account the realities on the ground and the options we have in front of us.

[Kikapu]

One country, one sovereignty, one nationality, two component states, each with a guaranteed majority because of bizonality (and some other reasons), each community attends to its business, equality which is not based on numbers but is based on equal share of power. I think these have been basically agreed by Christofias and Talat.

Kikapu, had you asked me this question 35 years ago, perhaps I would have given you a different answer. My answer today takes into account the realities on the ground and the options we have in front of us.

So you are basically talking about a True Federation, except each state having the majority of one ethnic group over the other, which is not the case in a true federation, so lets continue.. I don't know how a equal power will play out in a day to day use, but even in the States we have a "equal power" given to each state to be represented in Washington on senatorial level
(2 senators each) regardless of the land and population size. However, on the congressional level, there is absolutely no equality at all and it is purely based on number of people living in those states. So when we are talking about "equal power sharing" I'm not sure what it actually means in Cyprus. I believe the TC's think it is 50-50 power share across the board, with another level to be added on top, which is the "veto power". Then a majority north and majority south with no political rights given to those "foreigners", GC's in the north and TC's in the south to take part in the local elections, basically falling into the
"taxation without representation" phrase that will effect their basic Human and Democratic rights, then pretty soon, we are back to Annan Plan 2004.

Then there is the issue of land size for each state. Will it be based on ethnic community size or remain as it is today. My guess is, the GC's will want it to be based on 82%-18% so that as few GC's as possible will not need to be in the north state under a TC state rules, and more importantly, the TC's and Turkey see BBF as a Confederacy and not a Federation, with it's own borders and sovereignty at that, and in time, if the condition prevail, the TC's may want to become independent completely, therefore I cannot see the GC's taking a chance to allow the north to remain as it is today at 37%. If it was a True Federation as in the USA, the present "state lines" does not need to change, but once again, the TC's are not talking about a True Federation but a "true" Confederation. Therefore Bananiot, your version of BBF is much different than the BBF that means to the majority of the TC's and Turkey. Christofias can only offer a True Federation with minor changes in these peace talks to the TC's to get a YES vote from the GC's, but I'm not certain this is what the TC's and Turkey will want or accept. That's because the 2004 AP had set the bar very high on the wish list, a pie in the sky kind of a dream, which makes it very difficult to wake up to reality and accept something that does not follow the Annan Plan 2004 dream.

So Bananiot, your BBF sounds more like a Federation if I understand you correctly and the TC's version of BBF is more like 2004 AP Confederacy. One can meet all the Democratic and Human Rights of all Cypriots and the other will violate the Democratic and Human Rights of most Cypriots.

How will we bridge the gap.??

[BirKibrisli]

I am also confused as to how this magical "political equality" will work in practice at the Federal level...We will have two states,fine,but one will be much larger than the other and more populous....Lets take some practical issues....In national defence,what would be the proportion of the soldiers or the configuration of the command structure???? How will the president be elected??? How will Cyprus decide which way to vote at international congresses or at the UN for that matter??? In Education, would there be one or two standards of student appraisal for University places,assuming that people would be free to attend any university they like???

How will this political equality transfer to sensitive areas like immigration and climate change or the environment protection etc?????