Cyprus-Forum.com

[Andros]

I'm meeting you all half way

Myth: That we can completely return to pre-1974
Myth: That Northern Cyprus will be recognised
Myth: That a new deal will result in the continuation of the ROC

Compromise:
After reading the many (opposed) comments by “Oracle” and “Get Real” in particular, and by a few members of both Greek and Turkish Cypriot socialist party members, I’ll agree to meet your view half way and agree that a solution may just be possible as the United Federal Republic of Cyprus if it incorporates/or at least considers the following realistic negotiating “elements”.

{1)
Firstly, seeing that we (truly) may not have much choice but to accept the strong possibility that the United Federal ROC may actually be our destiny, regardless of our view-point(s), perhaps the two leaders, in the process of negotiating a new federal Republic based on two-founding constituent states, could consider the Greek Cypriot concerns of the following:

(a) How, and who will pay for the “Turkish Cypriot” constituent state’s lack of high tech industries, accommodation and infrastructure as a separate “inter” legal; entity of this unified Republic state?

(b) How they (the leaders) will handle and “manage” the lack of freedom of “Settlement” for all people on the island? And later deal with the psychological and practical issues in preventing this fundamental EU freedom (How Derogation in the Annan Plan would have lead to major arguments)?

(c) Proving that having three governments; One loose, and two firm constituent governments (I assume) in an island that is smaller than Sicily, could actually be considered a “Democratic, realistic and viable” basis for a solution? Whose idea was tri-government idea initially?

(d) We keep on hearing about the idea of all of the “Settlers” (from Turkey), actually NOT being called “Settlers” by TC leader Talat – is this an indication that President Christofias has agreed to accept a larger number to join the new Republic behind closed doors with TC leader Talat?

We realise that a possible United Federal Republic of Cyprus could well be the key in an agreed and acceptable deal for the resolution of the Cyprus problem, but it must also include our sensitivities and hard work to date in creating such a strong present ROC since 1974. The ROC, as it is today, is almost completely a different entity than the ROC prior to 1974. A huge amount of work has gone into establishing a solid infrastructure and system, almost COMPLETELY different to the occupied area the Turkish Cypriots refer to as the “TRNC”. How these two components, or Federated style states will UNITE in one swift move is a clear mystery without the possibility of “Workable failure”, but nevertheless, I am in agreement with the Present outlook by President Christofias and hope that he will pull it off – but we do NEED ANSWERS, and not like those prior to the Annan Plan.

Secondly……And in no particular order, seeing that I am fair towards the Turkish Cypriots – can’t be bias, God knows who’s reading this!

With regards to the sensitive issue of security and guarantee (for the Turkish Cypriots and its clash with the interests of the present Republic of Cyprus), PERHAPS a compromise can be reached where the proposed “Greek Cypriot Constituent State” will be guaranteed by Greece, and the “Turkish Cypriot Constituent State”, ONLY, will be guaranteed by Turkey. That way, neither Greek nor Turkish Cypriots will be able to accuse each other of dominating or threatening each other – in other words, Turkey would only be legally/ and constitutionally be given the legal right to so-called reinstate military order/action in the Turkish Cypriot area if any major hostilities should occur. Perhaps, and only perhaps, that would resolve the Turkish Cypriot “Security” sensitivity. Let’s face it, we all now realise that the Turkish Cypriots CAN never sign any agreement without us, Greek Cypriots, meeting them at least half way on this security issue. Perhaps this could be our key is cornering Turkey?

Now that the Turkish Cypriot concern is sorted! What else do you REALISTICALLY believe our leaders will be able to compromise on in this United Federal ROC?

[Oracle]

Your biggest fallacy is in supposing that Cyprus needs Greece to guarantee anything. It does not by virtue of Cyprus being in the EU. That is the only guarantee it needs. EU.

So using this argument to qualify Turkey guaranteeing anything in Cyprus is a non-starter.

No guarantors desired or necessary.

(P.S. Only a Turk would attempt such subterfuge!)

[paliometoxo]

your right oracle, we dont need greece its the north that depends on tukey for everything, without turkey there would be no trnc they would all be bankrupt in a few years..

but now nicosia as agreed to let financial aid to the trnc from eu, u think once the south gives trnc money and helps them develope the trnc they will say oh lets re unite or say f u we are doing just fine in our trnc and tell us bye? tassos was right to squeeze them so they couldent breath, tighter.

[bill cobbett]

I dunno the "stick" - embargoes, non-recognition etc havn't got us terribly far in the past 30 odd years so I am starting to think that perhaps it's time to give the "carrot" approach a try.

As for guarantors:-

One tries to persist in treating Cy as a colony and to promote its interests and the interests of its allies there.
The second one overthrows an elected government.
The third one invades, killing thousands and occupies 1/3rd of the Island.

So been there, seen it, dunnit, - let's learn from the mistake of putting any more trust in this Unholy Trinity.

[Get Real!]

Myth: That a new deal will result in the continuation of the ROC

Sounds more like your wishful thinking. I'd like to see Christofias come and tell 750,000 Greek Cypriots... "I've just signed away your constitution" …without getting hanged by the balls in Eleftheria square…

[unitedwestand]

Your biggest fallacy is in supposing that Cyprus needs Greece to guarantee anything. It does not by virtue of Cyprus being in the EU. That is the only guarantee it needs. EU.

So using this argument to qualify Turkey guaranteeing anything in Cyprus is a non-starter.

No guarantors desired or necessary.

(P.S. Only a Turk would attempt such subterfuge!)

Whats wrong with Greece guaranteeing your safety?

And If there is absolutely no chance of a repeat of 63 and 74 then why do you care about Turkeys guarantor status. It will be just a symbolic thing. Its not as if you're ever going to give them reason to kick your ass again. Is it?

If it means a sense of security and adds substance to the negotiatios just bloody do it.

[Get Real!]

Your biggest fallacy is in supposing that Cyprus needs Greece to guarantee anything. It does not by virtue of Cyprus being in the EU. That is the only guarantee it needs. EU.

So using this argument to qualify Turkey guaranteeing anything in Cyprus is a non-starter.

No guarantors desired or necessary.

(P.S. Only a Turk would attempt such subterfuge!)

Whats wrong with Greece guaranteeing your safety?

Unlike in 1974, Cyprus now has its own independent, modern, and well organized National Guard that can be further extended by 4-5 thousand TCs of service age, and with enough firepower to deter any further invasions unless the invader is up for a very long, bloody, and costly affair.

[Oracle]

Your biggest fallacy is in supposing that Cyprus needs Greece to guarantee anything. It does not by virtue of Cyprus being in the EU. That is the only guarantee it needs. EU.

So using this argument to qualify Turkey guaranteeing anything in Cyprus is a non-starter.

No guarantors desired or necessary.

(P.S. Only a Turk would attempt such subterfuge!)

Whats wrong with Greece guaranteeing your safety?

And If there is absolutely no chance of a repeat of 63 and 74 then why do you care about Turkeys guarantor status. It will be just a symbolic thing. Its not as if you're ever going to give them reason to kick your ass again. Is it?

If it means a sense of security and adds substance to the negotiatios just bloody do it.

Greece comes as part of the EU, as does France, Germany Spain etc.

P.S. I wonder how France got on practicing annihilating Turks from the Eastern EU-borders .....

[Magnus]

Your biggest fallacy is in supposing that Cyprus needs Greece to guarantee anything. It does not by virtue of Cyprus being in the EU. That is the only guarantee it needs. EU.

So using this argument to qualify Turkey guaranteeing anything in Cyprus is a non-starter.

No guarantors desired or necessary.

(P.S. Only a Turk would attempt such subterfuge!)

Whats wrong with Greece guaranteeing your safety?

And If there is absolutely no chance of a repeat of 63 and 74 then why do you care about Turkeys guarantor status. It will be just a symbolic thing. Its not as if you're ever going to give them reason to kick your ass again. Is it?

If it means a sense of security and adds substance to the negotiatios just bloody do it.

I'm sure you already know the answers to your questions so I'll assume they were rhetorical. On the off-chance that they weren't then how about these answers:

Even if Greece is assigned a role of guarantor, there is nothing to guarantee that they will actually do anything to help in the event of any problems. They may have the right to intervene but who is to say they will? Maybe they would sacrifice Cyprus to avoid a direct conflict between themselves and Turkey.

The problem with Turkey as a guarantor is even more obvious. It doesn't take a genius to work out that at the slightest incident (whether genuine or manufactured), your Turkish chums will be more than happy to invade again, only this time it will be a much messier affair.

[Rebel.Without.A.Pause]

These Turkish Cypriots who want Turkey as a guarantor arent as scared about their safety as they are that Turkey will lose any chance of creating a colony on Cyprus. Thats their real ambition.

They seem to forget that they started a lot of the fighting to achieve segregation - and now they are trying to take us for fools as if they are the poor victims. Its simple, dont fuck with us and we wont fuck with you.