Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

magikthrill even you can workout that I named thses prime examples of GC mentality and what awaits us in a united Cyprus.

[magikthrill]

magikthrill even you can workout that I named thses prime examples of GC mentality and what awaits us in a united Cyprus.

yes you named these as "prim examples" even though they are the minority on this forum.

just because someone disagrees with your opinion that doesnt mean he is prejudiced against you VP.

[turkcyp]

1- It's wrong to dictate your child what to do. You can have an opinion but it's your child's life and you have to respect his/her decision.

Metecyp,

Did you read what he said in the interview,

WE have actually discussed this issue on another topic. It is again one of those usual "unintentional" translation things.

The interview was given to a Turkish newspaper, and what Talat was essentially saying is that "i would not want my daughter/son to marry a GC, but as a father you know that the choice is hers/his and you have to respect that and accept it. There is nothing you can do about it" This was the essence of the answer Talat gave to question.

But in GC newspapers all the rest of the paragraph for some reason is dropped and written down as " Talat does not want his son or daughter to marry a GC".

I have been telling in this forum so many times not to take the sentences out of the context because it implies so many different things. Here is a classical example of it don by a professional news people "unintentionally".

..... I'll accept your position but there's no logical explanation and the only illogical explanation can be "there's bad blood between us".

There is a logical explanation. it is the fact that you do not want to bring a kid to the world and then have a divorced marriage because of all the external effects on you and on your spouse.

Can you seriously believe that in the current day climate in Cyprus a GC and TC can marry and have no bad reaction from the external world. And trust me, I am married and I know external world especially “your parents and your parent-in-laws” play a big part in your marriage, and then your neighborhoods, your collages, school friends of your kids, etc. etc., in short the whole society around you.. They would affect and the chances that that marriage will falter is much higher and whatever you say a faltered marriage and es[specially if there is a kid involved is a very bad scenario.

This "bad blood" is a logical explanation but you seem to not realize why it is logical. The only solution is TIME. 30 years ago it was a big "No, No" in USA to have a black and white to marry. Now after 30 years that attitude is changing in society and you see much more interracial marriages.

The same things will have to happen in Cyprus as well. We have to start living with each other, and start trusting each other, and start to see that a GC is not any different than a TC as a human being. But as a societies we are not there yet, and societies exert a huge outside force on any marriage. Believe it or not.

Unfortunately we are not living in a vacuum environment.

p.s. As of right now, I would not want my kids to marry a GC especially if they are going to live in Cyprus for the above stated reasons. 20 years down the road, if the attitudes in the societies do change, I am declaring already right now that I do not care, if my son in law is an alien from outer space let alone GC.

[Piratis]

What I know is that if Papadopoulos had said a similar thing the people that now defend Talat would claim that this is a clear proof of their claim that Papadopoulos is supposedly a turk hater.

If they asked George Bush if he would have a problem if his doughter was married with a Black person, what do you think he would say?

The problem in Cyprus is that some politicians are trying to please only their community because they know they get votes only from them. It all begins from the racist separation of people into GCs and TCs. If such separation did not exist no politician would dare to make such racist remarks.

[turkcyp]

What I know is that if Papadopoulos had said a similar thing the people that now defend Talat would claim that this is a clear proof of their claim that Papadopoulos is supposedly a turk hater.

If they asked George Bush if he would have a problem if his doughter was married with a Black person, what do you think he would say?

The problem in Cyprus is that some politicians are trying to please only their community because they know they get votes only from them. It all begins from the racist separation of people into GCs and TCs. If such separation did not exist no politician would dare to make such racist remarks.

If T.Pap. said the same thing in exactly the same manner Talat said, I would actually applaud him, because I knew he would not be lying. If he said anything else, I would not take him seriously as usual because I know he would be lying.

Everything here is confusing politics with being truthful. What you are saying is that even though it is not true you rather have your politicians lie. Me on the other hand, believing that nothing can be coming from top (any rapprochement of GCs and TC should be done by the public level first then leaders) and should come from bottom, and also believing that politicians should be both TRUTHFUL and also be a GOOD REPRESENTATIVE of their societies, think that even if it is sad what they are saying they should tell the truth.

As I have said, it all takes TIME.

[Piratis]

What you are saying is that even though it is not true you rather have your politicians lie.

No, I would rather have my politicians show some respect to the people.

If for example Talad wouldn't hire a woman for an important position, would you expect him to come and say this publicly?
I think if he did it would show disrespect to women and it would give the bad example to others. The leaders should show the good example while they are leaders and keep their bad side (everybody has one) for their personal life.

[Main_Source]

What I know is that if Papadopoulos had said a similar thing the people that now defend Talat would claim that this is a clear proof of their claim that Papadopoulos is supposedly a turk hater.

Sorry but this is so true. Look how many times we have heard about peoples fathers or uncles witnissing GC killing TC leading up to 1974...When the same kind of issue is brought up about the Armenian genocide, we hear that it cant be true because the Armenian great-grand fathers or great uncles must be lieing...and none of us were actually there to see it.

Sorry but a lot of TC work on double-standards...therefore, if you want GC recognition of its 'attrocities', then lead by example.

[turkcyp]

No, I would rather have my politicians show some respect to the people.

If for example Talad wouldn't hire a woman for an important position, would you expect him to come and say this publicly?
I think if he did it would show disrespect to women and it would give the bad example to others. The leaders should show the good example while they are leaders and keep their bad side (everybody has one) for their personal life.

And how are they showing respect to people by lying again?

First of all I would not expect Talat not to that kind of prejudice as not to hire a woman for an important position. And if he has, YES I would rather him SAY that he would not hire a woman for an important position so that I would know his true colors and I would not vote for him again.

What you are saying is that you would rather have your leaders lie to you about their true colours in order to set a good example for the society. In other words you want a lying person, whose true colors are not good for the society (he does not believe woman are good for some positions) to set an example for society. I definitely do not want that because deep down that person would always find a way of showing his true colors one day.

The difference between you and me, is that you want politicians to be “leaders” even if their values are not good ones, but lie about their values and change the society away from their true values. (which probably will never happen). On the other hand I wan my politicians not to lead me, but to represent me and reflect the rue color of the society he is chosen from, and be truthful and show his colors, so I can decide if I want to choose him again or not.

I do not want a leader to set me good examples, even though he does not believe in those examples. I want a person who reflects the values of a society so when he makes bad decisions based on the societies choices, the whole society knows that bad decisions were their own choosing so that they can truly correct themselves.

It is all a matter of top to bottom OR bottom to top approach. You prefer the first one, me the second one.

[metecyp]

Turkcyp,

What you're saying is that in principle you're not against TCs and GCs getting married but you think both societies are not ready for it therefore it'll take time for us to get ready for intercommunal marriages. See, I respect this and I do understand your position. You seem to realize that there's nothing wrong with TC and GC getting married, it's just that we're not ready for it and you express your hope for more intercommunal marriages.

As a politician working for reunification, I expected a similar response from Talat. I know he said "ultimately the choice is his/hers" but he openly said he's against it as a father without needing to explain why. A guy down the street can openly say he doesn't want a GC son/daughter-in-law but Talat is not just the guy down the road. He is supposed to be working to unify the island and in a future united Cyprus, he's supposed to serve both to TCs and GCs. How can he expect to be seen as a unifier if you make statements that completely ignore a huge percentage of Cypriots?

Let's assume that he becomes the president in a united Cyprus. How can a GC feel that he'll be fair to him/her when he openly declared that he wouldn't like to have a GC daugther/son-in-law?

As Piratis said, I see this mainly a move to please his community because he knows most TCs feel the same way but this makes me wonder if he's a true leader. For me, a true leader shows his community the right direction. I hope we all agree that having more intercommunal marriages can only bring good to Cyprus. Can you think of one bad thing an intercommunal marriage can bring to the communities of the island?

If something is so obviously good in principle, and if Talat is a true leader and if he really cares about people of Cyprus regardless of ethnicity, what's the need to alienate a huge portion of Cypriot people?

I just didn't expect someone who likes to describe himself as a leader and talks about reunification to make such remarks but I'm sure nobody will remember this in a year or so, just like nobody remember how Kalyoncu openly lied to TC community about his secret meeting with T-Pap.

[Piratis]

Turkcyp, what you say would be the ideal if we had 100s of people to choose as our leaders. The reality though is that our options are limited and within these limited options it is extremely hard to find anyting close to an ideal leader.

Therefore I prefer the not ideal leader to keep his not so good side for his personal life and not to give the bad example to the citizens. People can then judge them from their actions. Such remarks only give wrong example and do not help.