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TURKISH CYPRIOTS NOT ALLOWED TO VOTE IN RoC

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby magikthrill » Thu Apr 28, 2005 1:23 am

turkcyp wrote:Hey you know very well that I am not going to deny TRNC and ask Turkish army to leave without %100 guarantees that TCs will participate in RoC as 1960 constitution asks for.

It is RoC initiative to make us believe that and to gain our trust again. And I know that you do not want to do that because of your concerns. So RoC can show as a roadmap of doing these things at the same time, MAY BE.

I can suggest a way if you want, of doing at the same time.


Turkcyp,

this is an excellent idea! However, think about it realistically. How would TCs who have been poisoned with hate throughout the years (not all or even many but quite a few) accept this. How would they react?

Ill tell you how. They will claim that solution proposals from the 70s that include a bizonal federation were all a lie, and that the GCs are evil monsters who want to oppress the TCs by lying and switching back and forth. And then they will demand (once again) formal recognition and clearance for their illegal properties.
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Postby insan » Thu Apr 28, 2005 1:29 am

magikthrill wrote:
turkcyp wrote:Hey you know very well that I am not going to deny TRNC and ask Turkish army to leave without %100 guarantees that TCs will participate in RoC as 1960 constitution asks for.

It is RoC initiative to make us believe that and to gain our trust again. And I know that you do not want to do that because of your concerns. So RoC can show as a roadmap of doing these things at the same time, MAY BE.

I can suggest a way if you want, of doing at the same time.


Turkcyp,

this is an excellent idea! However, think about it realistically. How would TCs who have been poisoned with hate throughout the years (not all or even many but quite a few) accept this. How would they react?

Ill tell you how. They will claim that solution proposals from the 70s that include a bizonal federation were all a lie, and that the GCs are evil monsters who want to oppress the TCs by lying and switching back and forth. And then they will demand (once again) formal recognition and clearance for their illegal properties.



Don't worry about this. TCs who already have been living in so-called RoC would be very happy and the ones who willing to return in case their constitutional rights are given back would rush to South. The rest of the TCs? Don't give a f**k about them as GC leadership has done until now. However I'm sure that "RoC" has nothing else than a minority status to give TCs.
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Postby Agios Amvrosios » Thu Apr 28, 2005 3:21 am

If you are a tc who lives in the ROC as a citizen and pays tax then it is your god given right to be able to vote etc.


If you are a Greek Cypriot who wants to live in the proposed Turkish component state in the Federal Belgian Cheesecake of Cyprus and pay tax then it is you god given right to have no rights including the right to even exist.
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Postby magikthrill » Thu Apr 28, 2005 3:27 am

Agios Amvrosios wrote:
If you are a tc who lives in the ROC as a citizen and pays tax then it is your god given right to be able to vote etc.


If you are a Greek Cypriot who wants to live in the proposed Turkish component state in the Federal Belgian Cheesecake of Cyprus and pay tax then it is you god given right to have no rights including the right to even exist.


But Ag. Amvriosio this is "a different situation" (ie the only way anyone can justify some of the TC demands)
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Postby insan » Thu Apr 28, 2005 3:31 am

magikthrill wrote:
Agios Amvrosios wrote:
If you are a tc who lives in the ROC as a citizen and pays tax then it is your god given right to be able to vote etc.


If you are a Greek Cypriot who wants to live in the proposed Turkish component state in the Federal Belgian Cheesecake of Cyprus and pay tax then it is you god given right to have no rights including the right to even exist.


But Ag. Amvriosio this is "a different situation" (ie the only way anyone can justify some of the TC demands)



No, this is your bombastic exagerration in order to reach your ultimate goal; i.e a GC state where TCs will be degraded to a minority status.
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Postby magikthrill » Thu Apr 28, 2005 3:32 am

insan wrote:No, this is your bombastic exagerration in order to reach your ultimate goal; i.e a GC state where TCs will be degraded to a minority status.


Oh really? Then how can you support a plan that creates a state like in no other part in the world?
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Postby insan » Thu Apr 28, 2005 3:35 am

magikthrill wrote:
insan wrote:No, this is your bombastic exagerration in order to reach your ultimate goal; i.e a GC state where TCs will be degraded to a minority status.


Oh really? Then how can you support a plan that creates a state like in no other part in the world?


Like your mentality that has not a similar one in no other part in the world.
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Postby magikthrill » Thu Apr 28, 2005 3:42 am

Observe:

insan wrote:No, this is your bombastic exagerration in order to reach your ultimate goal; i.e a GC state where TCs will be degraded to a minority status.


versus

insan wrote:Like your mentality that has not a similar one in no other part in the world.



Hmmm... Seems like you cant keep your story straight insan... Is everything OK?


Oh and PS many people share my mentality, they are called human rights advocates. A term you seem to be quite unfamiliar with.
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Postby brother » Thu Apr 28, 2005 11:11 am

Let’s put the record straight


By Dr Ozdemir A. Ozgur


RECENTLY, there has been some negative comment on what Mehmet Ali Talat was quoted as having said on mixed marriages. In fact, Mr Talat faithfully reflected the opinion of the overwhelming majority of both Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots. But, as often in Cyprus, we do not see the full truth, but only the half truth.

Having worked in the Secretariat of the United Nations as a Senior Political Affairs Officer, mostly on matters of Human Rights, I returned to Cyprus at the beginning of 1989. Until May 1992, when I joined the University of Cyprus as an academic, I wrote a number of articles in the press. Having felt that human rights in some areas in Cyprus needed to be improved, such as the right to vote for Turkish Cypriots living in the south, that is, the area under the control of the government of Cyprus, I visited all the party leaders and asked them to remedy the anomaly, provisionally until the political problem was solved. I mean the anomaly created by the separatist Constitutional provisions and the de facto partition of the island. I explained that the right to vote was one of the fundamental rights and that hundreds of Turkish Cypriots living in the south could not elect or be elected.

Every leader told me that I was right and that the House of Representatives should be asked to do something about it. Unfortunately, nothing was done about it until recently, when a Turkish Cypriot living in the south, Mr Ibrahim Aziz, took the case to the European Court of Human Rights and won. Now I understand that the government has tried, or is trying, to remedy the situation so that the Turkish Cypriots living in the south can use their vote in the future. Is this how the matter should have been settled? I wonder!

Now, I would like to refer to the matter of mixed marriages, to which I referred at the beginning of this article. In 1993, I delivered a speech at the 10th Commonwealth Law Conference, held in Nicosia. I spoke on the subject of “Implementation of International Human Rights Norms in the Republic of Cyprus: Some Problem Areas.” Two of the items that I then pointed out were the voting rights of the Turkish Cypriots living in the south and the question of mixed marriages. I explained the Constitutional provisions (Articles 22 & 111) that left the marriage issue under the jurisdiction of religious institutions and that therefore it was not possible to have mixed marriages in Cyprus, although in 1989 the Constitution was amended to enable the Christians to have civil marriage.

I also pointed out then that in the Western civilisation only in Israel and Cyprus are inter-religious marriages not allowed. In 1984, this right was recognised in Greece, too, and even in Turkey the right to inter-religious, inter-racial and civil marriage is respected. I added that this right was provided for in Article 12 of the European Convention, Article 23 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, and Article 16 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. About the same time as I was delivering my speech, a male Turkish Cypriot citizen living in the south of Cyprus wished to marry an Orthodox Christian Bulgarian woman, but could not do so in the Republic of Cyprus. He approached a Greek Cypriot lawyer to find out how he could settle the matter. I understood then that he could go abroad and get married but that his marriage would not, contrary to international law, be recognised legally back in Cyprus. What a calamity!

Yet, until recently, the government of the Republic of Cyprus did nothing to remedy the situation, until it was sort of forced by the accession of Cyprus to the European Union. Is this the way of showing good will? And how can anybody attribute ulterior motives to Mr Talat because of his reply to a question as to whether he would like his child to marry a Greek Cypriot. Reportedly, Mr Talat said that the ultimate decision depended on his child but that a ‘yes’ decision would be difficult for himself and his wife. Is this not the truth in Cyprus for both communities? How can one conclude that Mr Talat is a separatist because of that opinion?

I am sure that the overwhelming majority of both Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots have the same opinion as Mr Talat on the subject of mixed marriages. Fortunately, not all Greek Cypriots have interpreted Mr Talat’s words in the same manner. Mr Nicos Pittas’ article titled “What is the point of all this abuse against Talat?” in the Sunday Mail of April 17, 2005 is a good example. Let’s tell the whole truth, not the half-truth. Let’s have mercy (in Turkish insaf, in Greek used as nisafi)!
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Postby magikthrill » Thu Apr 28, 2005 11:18 am

brother wrote:
Every leader told me that I was right and that the House of Representatives should be asked to do something about it. Unfortunately, nothing was done about it until recently, when a Turkish Cypriot living in the south, Mr Ibrahim Aziz, took the case to the European Court of Human Rights and won. Now I understand that the government has tried, or is trying, to remedy the situation so that the Turkish Cypriots living in the south can use their vote in the future. Is this how the matter should have been settled? I wonder!


Why did it stop there?

I am sure that the overwhelming majority of both Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots have the same opinion as Mr Talat on the subject of mixed marriages. Fortunately, not all Greek Cypriots have interpreted Mr Talat’s words in the same manner. Mr Nicos Pittas’ article titled “What is the point of all this abuse against Talat?” in the Sunday Mail of April 17, 2005 is a good example. Let’s tell the whole truth, not the half-truth. Let’s have mercy (in Turkish insaf, in Greek used as nisafi)!


So what GC was it that accused Talat of this? I personally am for inter mixed marriages, but people like VP apparently are not :-D
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