Cyprus-Forum.com

[Magnus]

Truths are hurts !!!!!

no one can change the history ..... above map is one of the truths in Cyprus that you can not change

Just like the truth hurts that your 'TRNC' was built on ethnic cleansing and stolen land. Halil what your promote everyday with your childish articles is immoral and inhumane - truth hurts.

Like many countries througout the world.

Rape and murder happen all over the world too. That doesn't make it right and it certainly doesn't mean that people should just let it happen without complaining.

You can complain all you wish but the facts do not change with regards to countries many of which have been created on the loss of others, it has been seen throughout history.

I love history too. But the whole point of history is to learn from our mistakes and use it as a building-block for the future. Lots of bad things happened in the past like slavery and the holocaust. If we allow these things to happen again then we haven't grown as a species and we're more detestable than the people who carried out the original crimes.

You're right when you say lots of countries have been built on the loss of others. But just because it has happened before doesn't mean it was right or that it should be allowed to happen again. If we have a chance to correct our mistakes and prevent them from happeneing again then we have to make every effort to do so or we might as well crawl back into the primordial soup.

[Viewpoint]

Truths are hurts !!!!!

no one can change the history ..... above map is one of the truths in Cyprus that you can not change

Just like the truth hurts that your 'TRNC' was built on ethnic cleansing and stolen land. Halil what your promote everyday with your childish articles is immoral and inhumane - truth hurts.

Like many countries througout the world.

Rape and murder happen all over the world too. That doesn't make it right and it certainly doesn't mean that people should just let it happen without complaining.

You can complain all you wish but the facts do not change with regards to countries many of which have been created on the loss of others, it has been seen throughout history.

I love history too. But the whole point of history is to learn from our mistakes and use it as a building-block for the future. Lots of bad things happened in the past like slavery and the holocaust. If we allow these things to happen again then we haven't grown as a species and we're more detestable than the people who carried out the original crimes.

You're right when you say lots of countries have been built on the loss of others. But just because it has happened before doesn't mean it was right or that it should be allowed to happen again. If we have a chance to correct our mistakes and prevent them from happeneing again then we have to make every effort to do so or we might as well crawl back into the primordial soup.

As you say whats happened as happened and we have to make the best of what we have, that is continue as we are or try to agree a solution, we have tried to unite but its obvious that the chasm is to wide, as you say we should learn from the past that exactly why we need safeguards which appear on the surface to be unfair but if you do not put them in place we will not have taken the precautions necessary to make things work on the your own ideology of learning from past mistakes.

[Magnus]

As you say whats happened as happened and we have to make the best of what we have, that is continue as we are or try to agree a solution, we have tried to unite but its obvious that the chasm is to wide, as you say we should learn from the past that exactly why we need safeguards which appear on the surface to be unfair but if you do not put them in place we will not have taken the precautions necessary to make things work on the your own ideology of learning from past mistakes.

Well I'm not so sure the chasm is too wide. Maybe we just haven't found the right bridge builder. We all have our ideas about which solution we prefer.

I do truly believe in learning from our past but I also think that we should make all efforts to correct our mistakes. In terms of the Cyprus Problem, we know we can't bring back the dead or take away the pain that so many people went through. But there are other things that can be done.

Unlike lives, property can be restored. People can be allowed to go back to their villages. The island can be re-unified and the influence from external forces can be removed. All this is possible and while it doesn't make up for the past, it's a good step in the right direction.

[Viewpoint]

As you say whats happened as happened and we have to make the best of what we have, that is continue as we are or try to agree a solution, we have tried to unite but its obvious that the chasm is to wide, as you say we should learn from the past that exactly why we need safeguards which appear on the surface to be unfair but if you do not put them in place we will not have taken the precautions necessary to make things work on the your own ideology of learning from past mistakes.

Well I'm not so sure the chasm is too wide. Maybe we just haven't found the right bridge builder. We all have our ideas about which solution we prefer.

I do truly believe in learning from our past but I also think that we should make all efforts to correct our mistakes. In terms of the Cyprus Problem, we know we can't bring back the dead or take away the pain that so many people went through. But there are other things that can be done.

Unlike lives, property can be restored. People can be allowed to go back to their villages. The island can be re-unified and the influence from external forces can be removed. All this is possible and while it doesn't make up for the past, it's a good step in the right direction.

BBF is also reunification, providing compensation packages and restitution, sharing power are also steps in the right direction.

[Get Real!]

Rape and murder happen all over the world too. That doesn't make it right and it certainly doesn't mean that people should just let it happen without complaining.

You can complain all you wish but the facts do not change with regards to countries many of which have been created on the loss of others, it has been seen throughout history.

That's PRECISELY why I refuse, and every other moral Greek Cypriot should refuse, to support Turkish Cypriots in their decadent quest.

Even though you and others put it on a plate for them all to see, some are still just plain stupid to see it.

[Magnus]

BBF is also reunification, providing compensation packages and restitution, sharing power are also steps in the right direction.

I can't agree there, I think BBF is just a watered down version of separation. Actually I would love to know your opinion on a thought I had earlier in the thread:

Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but why can't they devise a system where the Turkish Cypriots get a proportional vote in issues affecting the whole of Cyprus, but an equal vote in decisions that specifically affect the Turkish Cypriot community?

For example, government elections are set up on the principle of '1 man, 1 vote'. People vote for whomever they support.

When the government makes a decision that will specifically affect the Turkish Cypriot community, then power is split 50/50 between the government and something like a Council of Turkish Cypriots selected by the TC community to represent their interests.

Because there's no such thing as issues affecting ONLY the TCs or the GCs. I challenge anyone to come up with something that fits that description. Even 100% Muslim issues such as those on circumcision for example, will be subject to Human Rights complications by the EU.

Thanks for the reply GR. The reason I asked this question is because I've seen other threads where people are saying TCs should have equal representation because they don't want GCs overriding them in issues that affect the TC community.

I thought they might be referring to things such as Turkish schools or what might be the curriculum in schools that have pupils from both GC and TC backgrounds. I know that the interpretation of Cypriot history lessons might be a source of contention, and thought that maybe in this case the TC Council and government would work together.

Never mind, I can see it's not as clear-cut as that. I must have misinterpreted some of the other posts.

[Viewpoint]

Rape and murder happen all over the world too. That doesn't make it right and it certainly doesn't mean that people should just let it happen without complaining.

You can complain all you wish but the facts do not change with regards to countries many of which have been created on the loss of others, it has been seen throughout history.

That's PRECISELY why I refuse, and every other moral Greek Cypriot should refuse, to support Turkish Cypriots in their decadent quest.

Even though you and others put it on a plate for them all to see, some are still just plain stupid to see it.

Did I state anything that was incorrect? without a solution we have no alternative but to try and move forward with our own goals, what do you expect us to do?

[Viewpoint]

BBF is also reunification, providing compensation packages and restitution, sharing power are also steps in the right direction.

I can't agree there, I think BBF is just a watered down version of separation. Actually I would love to know your opinion on a thought I had earlier in the thread:

Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but why can't they devise a system where the Turkish Cypriots get a proportional vote in issues affecting the whole of Cyprus, but an equal vote in decisions that specifically affect the Turkish Cypriot community?

For example, government elections are set up on the principle of '1 man, 1 vote'. People vote for whomever they support.

When the government makes a decision that will specifically affect the Turkish Cypriot community, then power is split 50/50 between the government and something like a Council of Turkish Cypriots selected by the TC community to represent their interests.

Because there's no such thing as issues affecting ONLY the TCs or the GCs. I challenge anyone to come up with something that fits that description. Even 100% Muslim issues such as those on circumcision for example, will be subject to Human Rights complications by the EU.

Thanks for the reply GR. The reason I asked this question is because I've seen other threads where people are saying TCs should have equal representation because they don't want GCs overriding them in issues that affect the TC community.

I thought they might be referring to things such as Turkish schools or what might be the curriculum in schools that have pupils from both GC and TC backgrounds. I know that the interpretation of Cypriot history lessons might be a source of contention, and thought that maybe in this case the TC Council and government would work together.

Never mind, I can see it's not as clear-cut as that. I must have misinterpreted some of the other posts.

Not sure what you would like to me express an opinion on but here goes, examples of the issues GCs could derail us on is trade with Turkey, a tax on Turkish tourists. They may claim they will not do anything but you cant expect us to leave it to chance, what have they got to fear if they are not going to go down that route anyway? Their refusal makes us more suspicious.

[Rebel.Without.A.Pause]

Not sure what you would like to me express an opinion on but here goes, examples of the issues GCs could derail us on is trade with Turkey, a tax on Turkish tourists. They may claim they will not do anything but you cant expect us to leave it to chance, what have they got to fear if they are not going to go down that route anyway? Their refusal makes us more suspicious.

Where do you pluck your ideas out from!? lol

A tax on Turkish tourists??? Where did you think of THAT one??

...and stopping trade with Turkey isnt going to happen - its Turkey tht wants to stop trade with Cyprus remember!

[DT.]

BBF is also reunification, providing compensation packages and restitution, sharing power are also steps in the right direction.

I can't agree there, I think BBF is just a watered down version of separation. Actually I would love to know your opinion on a thought I had earlier in the thread:

Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but why can't they devise a system where the Turkish Cypriots get a proportional vote in issues affecting the whole of Cyprus, but an equal vote in decisions that specifically affect the Turkish Cypriot community?

For example, government elections are set up on the principle of '1 man, 1 vote'. People vote for whomever they support.

When the government makes a decision that will specifically affect the Turkish Cypriot community, then power is split 50/50 between the government and something like a Council of Turkish Cypriots selected by the TC community to represent their interests.

Because there's no such thing as issues affecting ONLY the TCs or the GCs. I challenge anyone to come up with something that fits that description. Even 100% Muslim issues such as those on circumcision for example, will be subject to Human Rights complications by the EU.

Thanks for the reply GR. The reason I asked this question is because I've seen other threads where people are saying TCs should have equal representation because they don't want GCs overriding them in issues that affect the TC community.

I thought they might be referring to things such as Turkish schools or what might be the curriculum in schools that have pupils from both GC and TC backgrounds. I know that the interpretation of Cypriot history lessons might be a source of contention, and thought that maybe in this case the TC Council and government would work together.

Never mind, I can see it's not as clear-cut as that. I must have misinterpreted some of the other posts.

Not sure what you would like to me express an opinion on but here goes, examples of the issues GCs could derail us on is trade with Turkey, a tax on Turkish tourists. They may claim they will not do anything but you cant expect us to leave it to chance, what have they got to fear if they are not going to go down that route anyway? Their refusal makes us more suspicious.

If trade with turkey is profitable then just try and stop us. Its a fact that patriotism has seldom stood in the way of GC's and their businesses.

As for tax on Turkish tourists.....why????