Cyprus-Forum.com

[repulsewarrior]

...think enclaves, then consider the variables you are discussing.

the reciprocal behaviour of the adversaries is assured, and for some who suffered the Injustices, a return as communities to their communities, Turkish in the south, as well as Greek in the north.

[denizaksulu]

I wonder when it was last you went around North Cyprus as an observer rather than a tourist. No offence. I will need the synthesise your original proposals more.

Thank you

VP is correct, that I have not been to the north since leaving Cyprus back in 1964. Just what exactly is your point in making that statement.?? Is it because that the TC society is no longer family oriented, therefore the elderly parents and grandparents will be made to sleep in the street by their children and grand children. If that is the case, then the " morally corrupted society" I have been talking about must be worse than I have envisioned, where family is no longer important to them. Is this what you meant or did I miss something Deniz?.

The TC leadership are mostly responsible for creating the crisis we face today on GC properties. If we are going to have peace, property claims are going to be part of that deal. Just because a TC family will not be able to spend couple of hundred thousand Euros to buy out the legal owner, does that then mean that the legal owner suppose to just walk away from his property so that the TC's can stay in his house, while he goes and rents from someone else. What you seem to ignore is, although it is true that not every TC has land in the south to sell to buy out the legal owners in the north, at the same time, most of all the GC's who had to leave their properties in the north, is all they have.

Since you find my proposal unacceptable Deniz, then what is your suggestion to satisfy both the TC's and legal owner, if the property issues is going to be center piece of negotiations..?? "I don't know" will not be acceptable for an answer I'm afraid, so lets hear your suggestions.!

Thanks.

Kikapu, nowhere did I say that I find your proposals unaccetable. I am merely very concerned with the 'return to original properties' issue.

You had stated that, " If it's apparent from the beginning that the TC family is not going to be able to come up with the money, then they will need to vacate the place within 12 months ". You cant depend on 'family values here. We live in a money orientated society now. I suggest you Go to Northern Cyprus and find out.

There are many who would not willingly vacate what had been given them willy nilly. Some have received properties justifiably, many have not. The nots are still refugees. I see a backlash at any attempt to make these people homeless again . As I said its a mess.

[Kikapu]

Kikapu, nowhere did I say that I find your proposals unaccetable. I am merely very concerned with the 'return to original properties' issue.

You had stated that, " If it's apparent from the beginning that the TC family is not going to be able to come up with the money, then they will need to vacate the place within 12 months ". You cant depend on 'family values here. We live in a money orientated society now. I suggest you Go to Northern Cyprus and find out.

There are many who would not willingly vacate what had been given them willy nilly. Some have received properties justifiably, many have not. The nots are still refugees. I see a backlash at any attempt to make these people homeless again . As I said its a mess.

That's very interesting to know that the Turkish Cypriot's family's fabric has been destroyed. It seems like the TC's are doing much better in the UK where family still matters. I had spoke to VP about this over a year ago, that the whole set up of the "TRNC" can only produce a "corrupted society" when family values are no longer, and neither the rule of law. Corruption always starts at the top at the highest level and works all the way down to the common man on the street in one form or other. One cannot escape it. It becomes the norm to ignore Human rights and allow wanted criminals living in the north with Whorehouses and Gambling Casinos and trafficking human beings to get them into the EU state are all built into the Society in the north. Listen to some of the TC's on here and see how they treat misery of others for the sake of their money. When some say "it is not a crime unless one is procescuted" is one of those examples, where if you are not going to be arrested, anything goes. This what destroys one's morality and their family values. I wish you can write few pages on this for us Deniz, since you seem to know what's going on in the north, because according to VP, everything is just fine, but can improve with recognition he says. Actually, recognition will make matters far worse for the TC's at this stage. The best policy would be to find a long and lasting peace, where the TC's can start with a clean slate in their own country of Cyprus. Now I understand why T_C never wrote his journal as he promised to do many times.

Deniz, if you listen to Talat, he talks as if he can afford to buy the whole north Cyprus. VP is the same way. Don't ask me where they have gotten the money from, or will get it from, but it seems like, they will be able to buy every single dwelling for the TC's from the GC's, so according to them, no one should be homeless.

Now back to reality...

No doubt Deniz, what ever compromise is reached, there are those who are going to suffer some hardship. The goal is to limit the amount of suffering who will fall through the cracks. This is why I was so encouraged that the Orthodox church was willing to build homes for the TC's in the north, so that they will be able to vacate those properties. We are also hoping for a International donor conference, where funds will be used to house everyone. Unless the property issues are settled to the satisfaction to the majority of Cypriots, it is always going to be a burning issue. As time goes on, it will get even harder to sort it out. Listen, I just picked the 12 months from the top of my head. It sounded a reasonable time to sort things out. But realistically, from the time peace papers are signed, and put into practice, may well take another 12 months. I'm sure everyone will get a good "heads up" in advance. In any case, this is how I see how the property issue can be solved. I'm sure other have other ideas, so lets hear from them.

Some have received properties justifiably, many have not.

Can you clarify the "justifiable" part for me please Deniz. How were they justifiable.??

Thanks.

[Viewpoint]

Kikapu, nowhere did I say that I find your proposals unaccetable. I am merely very concerned with the 'return to original properties' issue.

You had stated that, " If it's apparent from the beginning that the TC family is not going to be able to come up with the money, then they will need to vacate the place within 12 months ". You cant depend on 'family values here. We live in a money orientated society now. I suggest you Go to Northern Cyprus and find out.

There are many who would not willingly vacate what had been given them willy nilly. Some have received properties justifiably, many have not. The nots are still refugees. I see a backlash at any attempt to make these people homeless again . As I said its a mess.

That's very interesting to know that the Turkish Cypriot's family's fabric has been destroyed. It seems like the TC's are doing much better in the UK where family still matters. I had spoke to VP about this over a year ago, that the whole set up of the "TRNC" can only produce a "corrupted society" when family values are no longer, and neither the rule of law. Corruption always starts at the top at the highest level and works all the way down to the common man on the street in one form or other. One cannot escape it. It becomes the norm to ignore Human rights and allow wanted criminals living in the north with Whorehouses and Gambling Casinos and trafficking human beings to get them into the EU state are all built into the Society in the north. Listen to some of the TC's on here and see how they treat misery of others for the sake of their money. When some say "it is not a crime unless one is procescuted" is one of those examples, where if you are not going to be arrested, anything goes. This what destroys one's morality and their family values. I wish you can write few pages on this for us Deniz, since you seem to know what's going on in the north, because according to VP, everything is just fine, but can improve with recognition he says. Actually, recognition will make matters far worse for the TC's at this stage. The best policy would be to find a long and lasting peace, where the TC's can start with a clean slate in their own country of Cyprus. Now I understand why T_C never wrote his journal as he promised to do many times.

Deniz, if you listen to Talat, he talks as if he can afford to buy the whole north Cyprus. VP is the same way. Don't ask me where they have gotten the money from, or will get it from, but it seems like, they will be able to buy every single dwelling for the TC's from the GC's, so according to them, no one should be homeless.

Now back to reality...

No doubt Deniz, what ever compromise is reached, there are those who are going to suffer some hardship. The goal is to limit the amount of suffering who will fall through the cracks. This is why I was so encouraged that the Orthodox church was willing to build homes for the TC's in the north, so that they will be able to vacate those properties. We are also hoping for a International donor conference, where funds will be used to house everyone. Unless the property issues are settled to the satisfaction to the majority of Cypriots, it is always going to be a burning issue. As time goes on, it will get even harder to sort it out. Listen, I just picked the 12 months from the top of my head. It sounded a reasonable time to sort things out. But realistically, from the time peace papers are signed, and put into practice, may well take another 12 months. I'm sure everyone will get a good "heads up" in advance. In any case, this is how I see how the property issue can be solved. I'm sure other have other ideas, so lets hear from them.

Some have received properties justifiably, many have not.

Can you clarify the "justifiable" part for me please Deniz. How were they justifiable.??

Thanks.

Like other countries through out the the world the TRNC is also a capitalist society and just like south Cyprus people love their luxuries, what deniz is referring to is that the Turkish Cypriots famalies have become very money orientated, but before you get too excited we still have our family values and look after our own.

Whatever solution is found , if a solution is found the property issue will be a major problem to solve and if the agrred formula stipulates GCs will get property then they will but I still feel that it will be settled through financial compensation.

[denizaksulu]

Kikapu, nowhere did I say that I find your proposals unaccetable. I am merely very concerned with the 'return to original properties' issue.

You had stated that, " If it's apparent from the beginning that the TC family is not going to be able to come up with the money, then they will need to vacate the place within 12 months ". You cant depend on 'family values here. We live in a money orientated society now. I suggest you Go to Northern Cyprus and find out.

There are many who would not willingly vacate what had been given them willy nilly. Some have received properties justifiably, many have not. The nots are still refugees. I see a backlash at any attempt to make these people homeless again . As I said its a mess.

That's very interesting to know that the Turkish Cypriot's family's fabric has been destroyed. It seems like the TC's are doing much better in the UK where family still matters. I had spoke to VP about this over a year ago, that the whole set up of the "TRNC" can only produce a "corrupted society" when family values are no longer, and neither the rule of law. Corruption always starts at the top at the highest level and works all the way down to the common man on the street in one form or other. One cannot escape it. It becomes the norm to ignore Human rights and allow wanted criminals living in the north with Whorehouses and Gambling Casinos and trafficking human beings to get them into the EU state are all built into the Society in the north. Listen to some of the TC's on here and see how they treat misery of others for the sake of their money. When some say "it is not a crime unless one is procescuted" is one of those examples, where if you are not going to be arrested, anything goes. This what destroys one's morality and their family values. I wish you can write few pages on this for us Deniz, since you seem to know what's going on in the north, because according to VP, everything is just fine, but can improve with recognition he says. Actually, recognition will make matters far worse for the TC's at this stage. The best policy would be to find a long and lasting peace, where the TC's can start with a clean slate in their own country of Cyprus. Now I understand why T_C never wrote his journal as he promised to do many times.

Deniz, if you listen to Talat, he talks as if he can afford to buy the whole north Cyprus. VP is the same way. Don't ask me where they have gotten the money from, or will get it from, but it seems like, they will be able to buy every single dwelling for the TC's from the GC's, so according to them, no one should be homeless.

Now back to reality...

No doubt Deniz, what ever compromise is reached, there are those who are going to suffer some hardship. The goal is to limit the amount of suffering who will fall through the cracks. This is why I was so encouraged that the Orthodox church was willing to build homes for the TC's in the north, so that they will be able to vacate those properties. We are also hoping for a International donor conference, where funds will be used to house everyone. Unless the property issues are settled to the satisfaction to the majority of Cypriots, it is always going to be a burning issue. As time goes on, it will get even harder to sort it out. Listen, I just picked the 12 months from the top of my head. It sounded a reasonable time to sort things out. But realistically, from the time peace papers are signed, and put into practice, may well take another 12 months. I'm sure everyone will get a good "heads up" in advance. In any case, this is how I see how the property issue can be solved. I'm sure other have other ideas, so lets hear from them.

Some have received properties justifiably, many have not.

Can you clarify the "justifiable" part for me please Deniz. How were they justifiable.??

Thanks.

Thanks for your reply. As to your last question, I try to be vague as I know that you do know what I am talking about. My response will be forthcoming shortly. Ozel Posta ile.