Cyprus-Forum.com

[denizaksulu]

Well Deniz,

Being neither a Kyrenian nor a Paphian, and looking at the concrete jungle below Bellapaix, I would welcome the opportunithy to let the foreigners stay there, parched for water, while I got equal acreage/value land in Polis or Paphos.

But like I said, I am neither one nor the other, and cannot judge the emotional load of the original owners. I would never relinquish Famagusta so I can empathize with their attachment.

However, Christofias insists that with the right territorial settlement it is possible to have full restitution and still have a TC majority in the north. He did not reveal details and it will be interesting to see what he has in mind.

But there is that other question, what did the developers have in mind when they built this disgusting suburb stretching from Kyrenia to Lapithos? Did no one realize that with each new building the value of all the others goes down?

Perhaps with the opening of Famagusta the value of all these parasitic developments both in the north and the south will plummet and Cyprus will do what Spain is doing in the Costa del Sol, some badly needed demolition and coastal rehabilitation.

My question was how the properties issues can be settled with complete re-unification in mind. I wish I could read Christofias mind.

[bilako22]

I'm shocked anyone is interested in what Talat has to say...

I just feel sorry for the fucker never believed him. He is an ego maniac playing on the fact that half a dozen Turks voted him as their president.

You are not very good at counting Turkish voters.

[bilako22]

96? There were villages buried alive, and only 96? You are speaking absolute rubbish. GR yes I did go far on some things I said, but you really cut out some bits of what actually happened. By the way, I really don't want to be pitied on by a pervert.

You say the Turks/TCs, try to force their opinion...When it's actually really you who forces, GR.

As I said before, you'll be lucky to figure out your ABC because you don't even know that there were TWO separate organizations with a similar name on Cyprus (EOKA). The "B" you keep throwing around was setup in 1971 so get off the CyProb, go study the basics and then come back.

Cut the Bullshit mate. EOKA B was the baby of EOKA and to most Turks there is no difference between the two organizations that had the common denominator of committing murders against Cypriots and seeking ENOSIS.

To most Turks there's no difference between the sun and the moon...

... And the Earth is flat and the sun revolves round Turkey

And Turkey is the center of the earth and some dude by the name of Ataturk was the first man to land on the crescent…

More Greek bullshit.

Be grateful... it's the only standard you can participate in!

The reality is that I am not prepared to waste too much time going round in circles with you Greek idiots.

No need to go around in circles with us. Allow me to give you some directions.

Please turn onto a heading of 360 Magnetic, and just keep on going.

Or, you can follow a heading of 060 Magnetic, and just keep on going until you get to Mongolia.

Just trying to help you so that you can find your way home. Bon Voyage

In you dreams . We turks are going to be around a long time , enjoying kicking your arse.

[bilako22]

96? There were villages buried alive, and only 96? You are speaking absolute rubbish. GR yes I did go far on some things I said, but you really cut out some bits of what actually happened. By the way, I really don't want to be pitied on by a pervert.

You say the Turks/TCs, try to force their opinion...When it's actually really you who forces, GR.

As I said before, you'll be lucky to figure out your ABC because you don't even know that there were TWO separate organizations with a similar name on Cyprus (EOKA). The "B" you keep throwing around was setup in 1971 so get off the CyProb, go study the basics and then come back.

Cut the Bullshit mate. EOKA B was the baby of EOKA and to most Turks there is no difference between the two organizations that had the common denominator of committing murders against Cypriots and seeking ENOSIS.

To most Turks there's no difference between the sun and the moon...

... And the Earth is flat and the sun revolves round Turkey

And Turkey is the center of the earth and some dude by the name of Ataturk was the first man to land on the crescent…

More Greek bullshit.

Be grateful... it's the only standard you can participate in!

It is the only standard worth participating with you idiots .

[Get Real!]

96? There were villages buried alive, and only 96? You are speaking absolute rubbish. GR yes I did go far on some things I said, but you really cut out some bits of what actually happened. By the way, I really don't want to be pitied on by a pervert.

You say the Turks/TCs, try to force their opinion...When it's actually really you who forces, GR.

As I said before, you'll be lucky to figure out your ABC because you don't even know that there were TWO separate organizations with a similar name on Cyprus (EOKA). The "B" you keep throwing around was setup in 1971 so get off the CyProb, go study the basics and then come back.

Cut the Bullshit mate. EOKA B was the baby of EOKA and to most Turks there is no difference between the two organizations that had the common denominator of committing murders against Cypriots and seeking ENOSIS.

To most Turks there's no difference between the sun and the moon...

... And the Earth is flat and the sun revolves round Turkey

And Turkey is the center of the earth and some dude by the name of Ataturk was the first man to land on the crescent…

More Greek bullshit.

Be grateful... it's the only standard you can participate in!

It is the only standard worth participating with you idiots .

Don't get upset now... you wouldn't be here on this forum if you didn't like it would you?

[Kikapu]

Talat's version of UNIFICATION.!!!??? He wants everything what he wants, but no mention of what the GC's want. Even on the property issues, he only offers what suits him and nobody else. Unless he climbs down his ivory tower of arrogance and starts negotiating on finding peace, he will soon be kicked out of office and replaced with a Denktash type, which will bury any hopes for the TC's to improve their lives, because the status quo will remain, and the EU dreams of the TC's and Turkey will be just a mirage, and the likelihood of future wars will become a reality. So Mr Talat, start using your head and not your Red Lines to find peace, or else it will be those same Red Lines that will be prevent your people to move forward into the EU, the West and for a better future.

Hi Kikapu.


Pt of Interview relating to the properties of refugees:


EuroNews: "How about the property issue? because this is another important topic."

Mehmet Ali Talat: "Property issue will be solved in terms of either compensations, or exchange or restitution. There are three options. And an agreement will have provisions regarding this issue."

First I am not happy about the way the interview was conducted. Talats answers were not 'confidence inspiring', except for the properties issue.

Do you see any other alternative to his three 'offers'?

What other realistic alternatives are there, considering most of the land on the Northern coast has been sadly concreted over?

I once asked GR this while looking at the concrete jungle below us. I do not recall his answer, if any.

Hi Deniz,

Talat used the words compensations, or exchange or restitution but not right of return.Restitution can mean that if one wants to stretch the word, but it can also mean compensation. It's not unusual for politician to use different words meaning the same thing.

The property issue is one of the contentious issues in this settlement. If we are going to have a True Federation and not a Confederation under BBF, then every Cypriot will be free to return to their home villages if they choose to. They will also have the right to claim their land and properties back when ever possible, which means, that any public works projects such as roads, schools, hospitals government building and so on built on any GC land, can only be compensated with today's market value. The RoC government would need to compensate the TC's for the loss of their land in the south, at today's market price also.

I made this provision on my peace plan last year, and that was, any TC family occupying a GC home in the north should not be forced out of the place they have been living for the last 30+ years, but they should be given the first option to buy the place from it's original owners, at today's market price. If the TC's family can pay for it , or trade land in the south if they have some, or sell their land in the south and pay the GC owner of the house from that money. Perhaps a time frame can be set up, say 12 months or so, for the TC family to get their finances together to complete the deal with the GC owner. The TC family and the GC owner can arrange what ever deal they want between themselves. If it's apparent from the beginning that the TC family is not going to be able to come up with the money, then they will need to vacate the place within 12 months.

But of course, there may be a GC house as well as GC land (over 1 donum) all in the same place, because of this "exchange" program. Any land other than the one donum that the GC house sits on, that land can be returned back to the GC's immediately no matter what the TC family paid for it. It will be no concern of the GC owner who pays the TC family for that land. There is a good chance, that the GC land was given to the TC family in the "exchange", so they have not paid any money that they will lose. But lets take my cousin's husband's case. He bought lots of GC land at £20 per donum, but claims they are worth £3,000 per donum now. All of that land must be returned back to their original GC owners at no cost, and if any money needs to be paid to the husband, it can only be £20 per donum plus interest or nothing at all. He knew that he was buying GC land, hence the fact that it was DIRT cheap.

As for those who came to Cyprus from abroad to get rich on GC land in the north, should seek compensation from the person who sold them the GC land, and all the land and property should be returned to the GC owners within 12 months if its a dwelling, and immediately, if it's just a bare land, unless they too want to make a deal with the GC owners. This talk by Talat that GC land has changed too many hands and it is difficult to return the land is a bunch of crap. Even if it changed hands 10 times, they all knew the risks they were taking, so whats going to happen more than likely, just like in the game of "musical chairs" where the last one who is standing without a chair to sit on, because there is one chair less than people going around in a circle, and if I may put it delicately, will be "shit out of luck". The tenth and the last person who bought the property can go and sue the person who sold him a GC property and so they go all the way down the "totem pole" until it reaches the steps of the former "TRNC". The GC owner does not get involved in this at all. It will not be his problem. All the same rules will apply to TC land and property occupied by GC families in the south.

So Deniz, my bottom line is, if it's a dwelling where people are living in them, then they should be given the first option to buy the property at today price so to limit the number of people that will need to look for other places to live. This may not be what the GC may want, but some degree of compromise will need to be made to show good will and understanding. In the end, the TC's and GC's will make better neighbours than forcing people to move at any cost. My guess is, most will not be able to afford the price of today's cost, therefore they will move out. On the other hand, I do not expect too many GC's wanting to move to the north, so they will just simply take ownership of their properties, and rent them out to the TC families, to those who were not able to buy it in the first place. Same deal with commercial buildings and hotels.

[Viewpoint]

Talat's version of UNIFICATION.!!!??? He wants everything what he wants, but no mention of what the GC's want. Even on the property issues, he only offers what suits him and nobody else. Unless he climbs down his ivory tower of arrogance and starts negotiating on finding peace, he will soon be kicked out of office and replaced with a Denktash type, which will bury any hopes for the TC's to improve their lives, because the status quo will remain, and the EU dreams of the TC's and Turkey will be just a mirage, and the likelihood of future wars will become a reality. So Mr Talat, start using your head and not your Red Lines to find peace, or else it will be those same Red Lines that will be prevent your people to move forward into the EU, the West and for a better future.

Hi Kikapu.


Pt of Interview relating to the properties of refugees:


EuroNews: "How about the property issue? because this is another important topic."

Mehmet Ali Talat: "Property issue will be solved in terms of either compensations, or exchange or restitution. There are three options. And an agreement will have provisions regarding this issue."

First I am not happy about the way the interview was conducted. Talats answers were not 'confidence inspiring', except for the properties issue.

Do you see any other alternative to his three 'offers'?

What other realistic alternatives are there, considering most of the land on the Northern coast has been sadly concreted over?

I once asked GR this while looking at the concrete jungle below us. I do not recall his answer, if any.

Hi Deniz,

Talat used the words compensations, or exchange or restitution but not right of return.Restitution can mean that if one wants to stretch the word, but it can also mean compensation. It's not unusual for politician to use different words meaning the same thing.

The property issue is one of the contentious issues in this settlement. If we are going to have a True Federation and not a Confederation under BBF, then every Cypriot will be free to return to their home villages if they choose to. They will also have the right to claim their land and properties back when ever possible, which means, that any public works projects such as roads, schools, hospitals government building and so on built on any GC land, can only be compensated with today's market value. The RoC government would need to compensate the TC's for the loss of their land in the south, at today's market price also.

I made this provision on my peace plan last year, and that was, any TC family occupying a GC home in the north should not be forced out of the place they have been living for the last 30+ years, but they should be given the first option to buy the place from it's original owners, at today's market price. If the TC's family can pay for it , or trade land in the south if they have some, or sell their land in the south and pay the GC owner of the house from that money. Perhaps a time frame can be set up, say 12 months or so, for the TC family to get their finances together to complete the deal with the GC owner. The TC family and the GC owner can arrange what ever deal they want between themselves. If it's apparent from the beginning that the TC family is not going to be able to come up with the money, then they will need to vacate the place within 12 months.

But of course, there may be a GC house as well as GC land (over 1 donum) all in the same place, because of this "exchange" program. Any land other than the one donum that the GC house sits on, that land can be returned back to the GC's immediately no matter what the TC family paid for it. It will be no concern of the GC owner who pays the TC family for that land. There is a good chance, that the GC land was given to the TC family in the "exchange", so they have not paid any money that they will lose. But lets take my cousin's husband's case. He bought lots of GC land at £20 per donum, but claims they are worth £3,000 per donum now. All of that land must be returned back to their original GC owners at no cost, and if any money needs to be paid to the husband, it can only be £20 per donum plus interest or nothing at all. He knew that he was buying GC land, hence the fact that it was DIRT cheap.

As for those who came to Cyprus from abroad to get rich on GC land in the north, should seek compensation from the person who sold them the GC land, and all the land and property should be returned to the GC owners within 12 months if its a dwelling, and immediately, if it's just a bare land, unless they too want to make a deal with the GC owners. This talk by Talat that GC land has changed too many hands and it is difficult to return the land is a bunch of crap. Even if it changed hands 10 times, they all knew the risks they were taking, so whats going to happen more than likely, just like in the game of "musical chairs" where the last one who is standing without a chair to sit on, because there is one chair less than people going around in a circle, and if I may put it delicately, will be "shit out of luck". The tenth and the last person who bought the property can go and sue the person who sold him a GC property and so they go all the way down the "totem pole" until it reaches the steps of the former "TRNC". The GC owner does not get involved in this at all. It will not be his problem. All the same rules will apply to TC land and property occupied by GC families in the south.

So Deniz, my bottom line is, if it's a dwelling where people are living in them, then they should be given the first option to buy the property at today price so to limit the number of people that will need to look for other places to live. This may not be what the GC may want, but some degree of compromise will need to be made to show good will and understanding. In the end, the TC's and GC's will make better neighbours than forcing people to move at any cost. My guess is, most will not be able to afford the price of today's cost, therefore they will move out. On the other hand, I do not expect too many GC's wanting to move to the north, so they will just simply take ownership of their properties, and rent them out to the TC families, to those who were not able to buy it in the first place. Same deal with commercial buildings and hotels.

Now that you have finished arguing this from a GC angle can you try and see it from this side of the fence for a change? give us your views on the large scale developments on disputed land and people who have build their lives on land they exchanged if the property they surrendered is worth much more in the south.

[Kikapu]

Now that you have finished arguing this from a GC angle can you try and see it from this side of the fence for a change? give us your views on the large scale developments on disputed land and people who have build their lives on land they exchanged if the property they surrendered is worth much more in the south.

Why don't you read my post again, because it covers your questions very clearly. It also covers both the TC's and the GC's, therefore my post are for both communities. There is a good chance, that the TC land in the south will be worth more than some of the GC land in the north, so what's the problem.? The TC's can sell their land in the south and buy the GC property in the north on my "first option" purchase given to the TC family who is living in the GC's house. I thought I made this point very clearly to be understood, so please, read it one more time before you start your usual rant about not seeing it from your side of the fence. My proposal was precisely from your side of the fence.

The TC's have not "surrendered" their properties in the south, and most certainly not to the GC's, since the TC owners are still the legal owners of those properties. The only thing happened, is that the "TRNC" took the TC's land deeds away in order to give them GC land in an illegal "exchange" deal, which is meaningless, since it was not legal or has any legal standings.

There is no such thing as "disputed land" if one party holds the deeds for that piece of land. Is the land that your house sits on in the north, also a disputed land, or do you hold proper deeds for it.?? If your land is not disputed, why would anyone else's, if they too have their land deeds.

"Exchange" is another word that is totally meaningless. No land was legally exchanged by anyone. The "TRNC" took it upon themselves to do a "one-way" land transaction without the land owners permission. As long as the GC owner did not give permission for his land to be illegally "exchanged", then all the problems that goes with it only lies at the steps of the "TRNC".

[Kifeas]

Now that you have finished arguing this from a GC angle can you try and see it from this side of the fence for a change? give us your views on the large scale developments on disputed land and people who have build their lives on land they exchanged if the property they surrendered is worth much more in the south.

VP, do you realize that you have already usurped, utilized and cemented Greek Cypriot land in the north, far beyond the value of all the Turkish Cypriot land relinquished in the south? Do you realize this fact, or you do not? Do you realize that the real estate value of all the entire coastlines of Kyrenia, Famagusta bay and Karpas peninsula that you have so senselessly cemented, and which in their overwhelming majority belong to GCs, probably equate to as much as 20%-25% of the total real estate value of all the private properties in Cyprus? Do you realize that the real estate value of all the TC properties relinquished in the south, and is owned by TCs that moved to the north after 1974 (excluding those that moved abroad and never made to the north,) does not exceed 7%-8% of the total value of private properties, and already there is a huge gap of some tens of billions of Euros between what is left behind in the south by TCs and what is being used (developed) from the GC properties in the north? Do you realize what you did and what you are still doing, or you do not?

[Viewpoint]

Kikapu says;

Any land other than the one donum that the GC house sits on, that land can be returned back to the GC's immediately no matter what the TC family paid for it.

It will be no concern of the GC owner who pays the TC family for that land.

There is a good chance, that the GC land was given to the TC family in the "exchange", so they have not paid any money that they will lose.

As for those who came to Cyprus from abroad to get rich on GC land in the north, should seek compensation from the person who sold them the GC land, and all the land and property should be returned to the GC owners within 12 months if its a dwelling, and immediately, if it's just a bare land, unless they too want to make a deal with the GC owners.

This talk by Talat that GC land has changed too many hands and it is difficult to return the land is a bunch of crap.

where the last one who is standing without a chair to sit on, because there is one chair less than people going around in a circle, and if I may put it delicately, will be "shit out of luck". The tenth and the last person who bought the property can go and sue the person who sold him a GC property and so they go all the way down the "totem pole" until it reaches the steps of the former "TRNC". The GC owner does not get involved in this at all. It will not be his problem.

Sounds very one sided to me and many others, you display a GC viewpoint everytime and have conveniently forgotten about my question of invesments on disputed land for example 20million pund hotel, will you give that back to the GC?