Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

During the previous 12 months that I have been posting in the forum I have stressed many times that the RoC is a vital survival tool for the GC community. Accepting dissolution of the RoC is an act of treason and no one has the right to do so and thus wipe out half a century of national existence.

It is probable that the EU will not accept the virgin birth idea either in order to avoid the legal and diplomatic hassles.

The reason behind this demand was revealed by Gul shortly after the Burgenstock talks when he had said "we would lose our sovereignty but then they [the GCs] would lose their sovereignty too". This loss of GC legal personality seems to be vital to Turkey for some reason. A desire to annihilate the RoC does nothing useful for anyone involved in the Cyprus problem

One other major factor is the status of the British bases in case of a virgin birth. No RoC equals no bases since it is under the treaty of establishment that the bases were created. This means that Britain will be among the most ardent supporters of evolution rather than dissolution of the RoCand this view must have been communicated to Turkey already.

[Viewpoint]

During the previous 12 months that I have been posting in the forum I have stressed many times that the RoC is a vital survival tool for the GC community. Accepting dissolution of the RoC is an act of treason and no one has the right to do so and thus wipe out half a century of national existence.

It is probable that the EU will not accept the virgin birth idea either in order to avoid the legal and diplomatic hassles.

The reason behind this demand was revealed by Gul shortly after the Burgenstock talks when he had said "we would lose our sovereignty but then they [the GCs] would lose their sovereignty too". This loss of GC legal personality seems to be vital to Turkey for some reason. A desire to annihilate the RoC does nothing useful for anyone involved in the Cyprus problem

One other major factor is the status of the British bases in case of a virgin birth. No RoC equals no bases since it is under the treaty of establishment that the bases were created. This means that Britain will be among the most ardent supporters of evolution rather than dissolution of the RoCand this view must have been communicated to Turkey already.

Take your pop corn and watch the "Virgin Birth" the pill will be hard to swallow but youll get it down, the end of the "RoC" and the TRNC is on the cards.

[boomerang]

During the previous 12 months that I have been posting in the forum I have stressed many times that the RoC is a vital survival tool for the GC community. Accepting dissolution of the RoC is an act of treason and no one has the right to do so and thus wipe out half a century of national existence.

It is probable that the EU will not accept the virgin birth idea either in order to avoid the legal and diplomatic hassles.

The reason behind this demand was revealed by Gul shortly after the Burgenstock talks when he had said "we would lose our sovereignty but then they [the GCs] would lose their sovereignty too". This loss of GC legal personality seems to be vital to Turkey for some reason. A desire to annihilate the RoC does nothing useful for anyone involved in the Cyprus problem

One other major factor is the status of the British bases in case of a virgin birth. No RoC equals no bases since it is under the treaty of establishment that the bases were created. This means that Britain will be among the most ardent supporters of evolution rather than dissolution of the RoCand this view must have been communicated to Turkey already.

Take your pop corn and watch the "Virgin Birth" the pill will be hard to swallow but youll get it down, the end of the "RoC" and the TRNC is on the cards.

Just remember it only takes one cyanide pill to do the trick

[Viewpoint]

During the previous 12 months that I have been posting in the forum I have stressed many times that the RoC is a vital survival tool for the GC community. Accepting dissolution of the RoC is an act of treason and no one has the right to do so and thus wipe out half a century of national existence.

It is probable that the EU will not accept the virgin birth idea either in order to avoid the legal and diplomatic hassles.

The reason behind this demand was revealed by Gul shortly after the Burgenstock talks when he had said "we would lose our sovereignty but then they [the GCs] would lose their sovereignty too". This loss of GC legal personality seems to be vital to Turkey for some reason. A desire to annihilate the RoC does nothing useful for anyone involved in the Cyprus problem

One other major factor is the status of the British bases in case of a virgin birth. No RoC equals no bases since it is under the treaty of establishment that the bases were created. This means that Britain will be among the most ardent supporters of evolution rather than dissolution of the RoCand this view must have been communicated to Turkey already.

Take your pop corn and watch the "Virgin Birth" the pill will be hard to swallow but youll get it down, the end of the "RoC" and the TRNC is on the cards.

Just remember it only takes one cyanide pill to do the trick

As I said you will have to swallow because you are fully aware of the consequences.

[boomerang]

During the previous 12 months that I have been posting in the forum I have stressed many times that the RoC is a vital survival tool for the GC community. Accepting dissolution of the RoC is an act of treason and no one has the right to do so and thus wipe out half a century of national existence.

It is probable that the EU will not accept the virgin birth idea either in order to avoid the legal and diplomatic hassles.

The reason behind this demand was revealed by Gul shortly after the Burgenstock talks when he had said "we would lose our sovereignty but then they [the GCs] would lose their sovereignty too". This loss of GC legal personality seems to be vital to Turkey for some reason. A desire to annihilate the RoC does nothing useful for anyone involved in the Cyprus problem

One other major factor is the status of the British bases in case of a virgin birth. No RoC equals no bases since it is under the treaty of establishment that the bases were created. This means that Britain will be among the most ardent supporters of evolution rather than dissolution of the RoCand this view must have been communicated to Turkey already.

Take your pop corn and watch the "Virgin Birth" the pill will be hard to swallow but youll get it down, the end of the "RoC" and the TRNC is on the cards.

Just remember it only takes one cyanide pill to do the trick

As I said you will have to swallow because you are fully aware of the consequences.

Only if you promise to stop wearing it in public VD

[Viewpoint]

During the previous 12 months that I have been posting in the forum I have stressed many times that the RoC is a vital survival tool for the GC community. Accepting dissolution of the RoC is an act of treason and no one has the right to do so and thus wipe out half a century of national existence.

It is probable that the EU will not accept the virgin birth idea either in order to avoid the legal and diplomatic hassles.

The reason behind this demand was revealed by Gul shortly after the Burgenstock talks when he had said "we would lose our sovereignty but then they [the GCs] would lose their sovereignty too". This loss of GC legal personality seems to be vital to Turkey for some reason. A desire to annihilate the RoC does nothing useful for anyone involved in the Cyprus problem

One other major factor is the status of the British bases in case of a virgin birth. No RoC equals no bases since it is under the treaty of establishment that the bases were created. This means that Britain will be among the most ardent supporters of evolution rather than dissolution of the RoCand this view must have been communicated to Turkey already.

Take your pop corn and watch the "Virgin Birth" the pill will be hard to swallow but youll get it down, the end of the "RoC" and the TRNC is on the cards.

Just remember it only takes one cyanide pill to do the trick

As I said you will have to swallow because you are fully aware of the consequences.

Only if you promise to stop wearing it in public VD

boomer always the joker, the person they all laugh at, somethings never change.

[boomerang]

During the previous 12 months that I have been posting in the forum I have stressed many times that the RoC is a vital survival tool for the GC community. Accepting dissolution of the RoC is an act of treason and no one has the right to do so and thus wipe out half a century of national existence.

It is probable that the EU will not accept the virgin birth idea either in order to avoid the legal and diplomatic hassles.

The reason behind this demand was revealed by Gul shortly after the Burgenstock talks when he had said "we would lose our sovereignty but then they [the GCs] would lose their sovereignty too". This loss of GC legal personality seems to be vital to Turkey for some reason. A desire to annihilate the RoC does nothing useful for anyone involved in the Cyprus problem

One other major factor is the status of the British bases in case of a virgin birth. No RoC equals no bases since it is under the treaty of establishment that the bases were created. This means that Britain will be among the most ardent supporters of evolution rather than dissolution of the RoCand this view must have been communicated to Turkey already.

Take your pop corn and watch the "Virgin Birth" the pill will be hard to swallow but youll get it down, the end of the "RoC" and the TRNC is on the cards.

Just remember it only takes one cyanide pill to do the trick

As I said you will have to swallow because you are fully aware of the consequences.

Only if you promise to stop wearing it in public VD

boomer always the joker, the person they all laugh at, somethings never change.

Still playing catch up are we?...

[Andros]

DT Said:

a virgin birth is not under discussion by the gc side. Never was never will be for reasons described many times before. So it is pointless discussing this.

First of all, I feel saddened that some of my GC brothers and sisters still strangely believe that I may be a TC - come on guys, you'd know if I were as I would probably be in strong support with the way the peace talks are presently moving as opposed to condemning the Two Constituent state policy rubbish. Also, I strongly believe that it would be in OUR FAVOUR to remove the Turkish Cypriots from our democratic ROC equation until they are one day ready - leave them to establish their small republic and work with Turkey until they realise! Let's see how long that will last, as I bet they'll be begging to join us after they realise the amount of settlers that will take over their entire operation! Also, I do not trust the Ultra Turkish nationalists as I know that a unification deal with the many HOLDS the Turks are demanding, like in the Annan Plan and what Talat is presently demanding, will ultimately destroy any new FEDERAL based formula - you must see the light my GC family members.

Get Real, thank you for your response, I only hope that you will soon join me in accepting the type of solution we deserve. We have worked so hard since 1974 to make the ROC the way it is today, NOT THE TURKISH CYPRIOTS! Where, I don't believe in them just being able to jump on our amazing hard earned achievements, especially if we have to submit a new EU bid again. Not a fat chance in my book matey.

My only turn to an agreed (or should I say FORCED) partition is to manly avoid a MAJOR disaster, as opposed to a minor one even if it means perhaps closing our eyes to a Northern Turkish Cypriot state in the short run. At least it would be known as a Cypriot entity as opposed to the so-called "Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus" or is it really The Turkish Republic's Northern Cyprus state!

In short Oracle and Get Real, in particular, if I were a Turk I would clearly be voting for the Recognition of the so-called TRNC as how it stands today, instead of wanting a Forced-Partition our (the GC) way - of handing back certain areas, reducing their large territorial claim, removing the "Turkish Republic" naming convention and perhaps replacing it with "Northern Cyprus", and etc, etc.

In fact, I am starting to believe that it's the supporters of a Unified Cyprus as two constituent states as part of a federal resolution in this forum who are actually Turkish/Turkish Cypriot! Which GC in god's name would support such an absurd formula/process!

Finally, I will hopefully be posting more evidence of how the Turks will be GETTING THERE WAY in this unification Federal process, where perhaps then will you all realise that the only true formula for Cyprus is the one that I believe and not some bogus Federation of inter-states, power-sharing unrealistic loose government scenario rubbish!

Hope you all agree.

[Kikapu]

I think this is the part I was talking about, that one should be very cautious when your opponent offers you his queen on a chess board for a easy taking, because you will soon lose the game with a check mate.

Looks like Christofias has made a "check mate" on Talat.

First we had this from another thread:

``They reaffirmed their commitment for a bizonal bicommunal federation with political equality, as defined by relevant Security Council resolutions. This partnership will have a federal government with a single international personality, as well as a Turkish Cypriot constituent state and a Greek Cypriot constituent state which will be of equal status,``

http://www.cna.org.cy/website/english/a ... 2.asp?id=1

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=17778

Then we have this from this thread.

European Commission has advised Cyprus that reunification which may take the form of a "virgin birth" of two equal states, and not evolution of the existing Republic of Cyprus, will mean the new state will have to submit new EU accession bid

Can you see the connection.??

What Kifeas thought originally that Christofias was giving into TC demands was nothing more than a "goodwill gesture". Now he will tell Talat,

"look Mehmet, if we go the way I and you want in creating a New Country with the "virgin birth" concept, we will get kicked out of the EU. You want the TC state in the North to be in the EU don't you Mehmet, because if we have a TC and a GC state with a "virgin birth", then we will need to apply for a new EU admission process, with no guarantees of ever getting in, so in the end, what have we achieved with the "virgin birth" and a New Country?. Now that you understand the complexity of the "virgin birth", it is time to find a solution within the RoC.

Just this alone will leave Talat lost for an answer. So it will be up to Talat to find the best way possible to bring the TC's into a True Federation within the RoC. The International community will understand, that Christofias wants to give the TC's what they want, but not at the expense of dissolving the RoC and elimination from the EU. This will be Turkey's worse nightmare of not having any control of a veto vote from the RoC in the future if Turkey does not remove her troops out of Cyprus, or in any way interfere with the daily lives of the TC's in the newly formed "Northern state" of Cyprus. At this point, the best Talat will be able to negotiate is either give half of the north back to the RoC and agree on a partition for good, or for Talat to accept a True Federation within the frameworks of the RoC. Therefore the 2004 AP and "virgin birth" are both Dead and Buried.

Now you understand why 2004 AP was going to be a disaster had it been accepted. Cyprus would not have been able to join the EU and their acceptance would have been cancelled immediately after the approval of the 2004 AP.

[Kifeas]

I think this is the part I was talking about, that one should be very cautious when your opponent offers you his queen on a chess board for a easy taking, because you will soon lose the game with a check mate.

Looks like Christofias has made a "check mate" on Talat.

First we had this from another thread:

``They reaffirmed their commitment for a bizonal bicommunal federation with political equality, as defined by relevant Security Council resolutions. This partnership will have a federal government with a single international personality, as well as a Turkish Cypriot constituent state and a Greek Cypriot constituent state which will be of equal status,``

http://www.cna.org.cy/website/english/a ... 2.asp?id=1

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=17778

Then we have this from this thread.

European Commission has advised Cyprus that reunification which may take the form of a "virgin birth" of two equal states, and not evolution of the existing Republic of Cyprus, will mean the new state will have to submit new EU accession bid

Can you see the connection.??

What Kifeas thought originally that Christofias was giving into TC demands was nothing more than a "goodwill gesture". Now he will tell Talat,

"look Mehmet, if we go the way I and you want in creating a New Country with the "virgin birth" concept, we will get kicked out of the EU. You want the TC state in the North to be in the EU don't you Mehmet, because if we have a TC and a GC state with a "virgin birth", then we will need to apply for a new EU admission process, with no guarantees of ever getting in, so in the end, what have we achieved with the "virgin birth" and a New Country?. Now that you understand the complexity of the "virgin birth", it is time to find a solution within the RoC.

Just this alone will leave Talat lost for an answer. So it will be up to Talat to find the best way possible to bring the TC's into a True Federation within the RoC. The International community will understand, that Christofias wants to give the TC's what they want, but not at the expense of dissolving the RoC and elimination from the EU. This will be Turkey's worse nightmare of not having any control of a veto vote from the RoC in the future if Turkey does not remove her troops out of Cyprus, or in any way interfere with the daily lives of the TC's in the newly formed "Northern state" of Cyprus. At this point, the best Talat will be able to negotiate is either give half of the north back to the RoC and agree on a partition for good, or for Talat to accept a True Federation within the frameworks of the RoC. Therefore the 2004 AP and "virgin birth" are both Dead and Buried.

Now you understand why 2004 AP was going to be a disaster had it been accepted. Cyprus would not have been able to join the EU and their acceptance would have been cancelled immediately after the approval of the 2004 AP.

Kikapu, if you read more carefully the joined communiqué, Christofias in essence didn't offer anything to Talat from what him and Turkey claim they have gained!

If one takes a close reading of the second sentence, will notice that the partnership is one of the two communities, because this is the capacity of the two negotiating sides. I.e. thy do not negotiate as the presidents of the RoC and the "TRNC," but as all the UN resolutions calling upon the two sides to reach a political settlement, they both negotiate as the leaders of the two communities (not even as the two people,) as they are described in and provided by the 1960 constitution. Therefore, the partnership is between the two communities, i.e. it is a continuation or a redrafting or a rearrangement of the existing partnership that established the RoC, without a separate territorial identity or dimension!

If one reads further, the federal government and the two constituent sates -as the sentence follows, are the by-products of the partnership between the two communites, and not the partnership a by-product of the existence of the two constituent (or any other set of two) states! There isn't even any constructive ambiguity on this! My only reservation to this was the use of the term "constituent," instead of the more proper "component" one! However, whatever connotation one may wish add to the term "constituent," the fact is that it is a by-product of the partnership between the two communities, as they are empowered by the 1960 constitution to do so! The federal government will be established through the partnership of the two communities, and not through one between the two constituent states! Of cource any two states in a federation are of an equal status, (this is true in the US too,) but this doesn't mean they are also the Co-founders of the federal govenrment! It is crystal clear, and any other definition one may wish to give to it will only sound foolish!