Cyprus-Forum.com

[insan]

Why did 'this not work out'? What stopped Turkey from executing their 'plan' in 63 and made them wait another 11 years to execute it?

there was no junta in greece in 1963,you need to blame some one

[/quote]

Existence of Enosists both in Greece and Cyprus were sufficient for Turkey to intervene and if encessary, divide the Island. However, Turks chose to resolve the problem with diplomacy. Don't fırget that both Greece and Turkey joined the NATO alliance in 1950. Both countries have interestst, historical and national ties in Cyprus and East Mediterennean region. The fact is that the interests of Turkey and Greece on Cyprus have always clashed, just like the interests of Hellenocentric GCs and Turcocentric TCs clashes. Enosis movement was not started with Greek Junta. The most destructive actions against TCs occured pre-junta period. Actually, afterwards the Greek Junta came to power in Greece, intercommunal violence stopped and inter-communla negotiations started between Clerides and Denktash. Although there wasn't inter-communal violence from 1967 until 15th of July 1974, hard-core Enosists initiated a new Enosis movement. 3 more Athens sponsored enosist newspapers established afterwards 1967. Greek Junta and its backers in Cyprus start intensively propogating Enosis, publicly both in Greece and Cyprus. Although actions of Junta and its backers in Cyprus was too provocative for TCs and Turkey; they kept calm. Until 1974, of course...

[erolz]

This puts everything in perspective and it shows the reasons why GC's voted no.

The reasons why the GC community vote no in the numbers it did are clearly shown in Alexandros study.

Erol, I am quite disappointed that you cannot see the perspective of the GC's. All you seem to have is the tunnel vision of the GC's wanting to dominate the TC's and keeping the actual things that are important for a solution at the periphery of your vision.

I am sorry if I have disapointed you.
I can see the perspective of the GC. I understand what they want re property, re free movement. I also understand what some GC want re legitimaising the making of TC a political minority in their own country. Resisting this attempt is not a 'periphary' issue as far as TC are concerned and I hope you can undesrtand this. If all GC clearly and plainly accepted the concept of a degree of political equality for the TC community and I still continued to talk mainly about this issue then I think your allegation of tunnel vision would be more fairly aimed at me. However what we have is some GC continuing to insist that such political equality is unfair, undemocratic and unacceptable to them in a Cyprus solution. As long as they do this then I will feel compelled to try and explain why the issue is so important to the TC community and why it does not have to be undemocratic unfair or unacceptable.

The simple truth is this. The rights of the refugees need to be respected, their choice to return needs to be respected, human rights need to be respected and there are genuine and workable means to make this happen without affecting the rights of the TC's as a community. As I see it, what Turkey is doing is the opposite.

As with metecyp comments, if you can explain to me how thius system would work and I understand it and it does in my opinion deliver what you say it would deliver then I will give it my full support. At this moment in time I do not understand your proposed system or how it will work. Please elaborate.

[erolz]

Why did 'this not work out'? What stopped Turkey from executing their 'plan' in 63 and made them wait another 11 years to execute it?

there was no junta in greece in 1963,you need to blame some one

[/quote]

So let me get this straight. Cyprus is divided today because of a plan by Turkey to divide the island. That plan went as follows.

1. Prepare enclaves for TC in Cyprus.
2. Wait for GC to use violence to force TC into these enclaves.
3. Wait for a Coup in Greece and a junta to come to power and until it does force the TC to stay in their enclaves until a coup in Greece occurs.

This is your idea of a 'plan'?

[magikthrill]

However, Turks chose to resolve the problem with diplomacy.

first of all the problem was not resolved only taken into a differenet level.
secondly, what exactly is diplomatic about invading a country and removing its inhabitants?

[erolz]

first of all the problem was not resolved only taken into a differenet level.
secondly, what exactly is diplomatic about invading a country and removing its inhabitants?

I think Insan is saying that from 63-74 Turkey has as good a reasons (excuses if you prefer) to take miltary action as it did in 74, yet chose to try diplomacy instead - for 11 years without result.
It was the failure of 11 years of diplomatic attempts to resolve the Cyprus problem coupled with the coup and comming to power of Sampson in Cyprus that eventualy led to a change of this policy.

[magikthrill]

I think Insan is saying that from 63-74 Turkey has as good a reasons (excuses if you prefer) to take miltary action as it did in 74, yet chose to try diplomacy instead - for 11 years without result.
It was the failure of 11 years of diplomatic attempts to resolve the Cyprus problem coupled with the coup and comming to power of Sampson in Cyprus that eventualy led to a change of this policy.

Any examples of this diplomacy? What policies did Turkey take after the collapse of the Republic in 63 to reinstate order?

[Saint Jimmy]

I think Insan is saying that from 63-74 Turkey has as good a reasons (excuses if you prefer) to take miltary action as it did in 74, yet chose to try diplomacy instead - for 11 years without result.
It was the failure of 11 years of diplomatic attempts to resolve the Cyprus problem coupled with the coup and comming to power of Sampson in Cyprus that eventualy led to a change of this policy.

Any examples of this diplomacy? What policies did Turkey take after the collapse of the Republic in 63 to reinstate order?

And also, can one not argue that, had it not been for the US President's direct and tactless interventions, Turkey would have gone ahead with the attack in the 60s (either 63 or 67)?

[insan]

I think Insan is saying that from 63-74 Turkey has as good a reasons (excuses if you prefer) to take miltary action as it did in 74, yet chose to try diplomacy instead - for 11 years without result.
It was the failure of 11 years of diplomatic attempts to resolve the Cyprus problem coupled with the coup and comming to power of Sampson in Cyprus that eventualy led to a change of this policy.

Any examples of this diplomacy? What policies did Turkey take after the collapse of the Republic in 63 to reinstate order?

@ http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/frus/johnsonlb/xvi/

[insan]

I think Insan is saying that from 63-74 Turkey has as good a reasons (excuses if you prefer) to take miltary action as it did in 74, yet chose to try diplomacy instead - for 11 years without result.
It was the failure of 11 years of diplomatic attempts to resolve the Cyprus problem coupled with the coup and comming to power of Sampson in Cyprus that eventualy led to a change of this policy.

Any examples of this diplomacy? What policies did Turkey take after the collapse of the Republic in 63 to reinstate order?

And also, can one not argue that, had it not been for the US President's direct and tactless interventions, Turkey would have gone ahead with the attack in the 60s (either 63 or 67)?

Turkey intervened militarily in 1964 but that was just a retaliation and a browbeat to Tylliria events. US couldn't stop Turkey to fly its jets on Cyprus skies and bomb some military targets. US warned Turkey to be careful and not to cause a war between Greece and Turkey. Furthermore, US not only warned Turkey but Greece and GC leadership as well.

In 1967, Turkey was seriously decisive to launch a military intervention because of the provocative Enosis activities of Greek Junta and their backers in Cyprus. US interfered and dissuaded Turkey to intervene. Then TCs abandoned the armed struggle and started a passive resitence movement during the inter-communal negotiations process between Denktash and Clerides.

[-mikkie2-]

Erol,

Alexandros and myself were talking about using a method of weighted voting, where people can have political representation no matter where they live in Cyprus whilst still maintaining respective community rights. It avoids the need to put restrictions on freedom of movement which I think is imperative for a solution.

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/cyprus1590.html

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/cyprus1108.html

You have lived in a free democratic society. You have prospered under those conditions. Yet in Cyprus you still insist that you require 'protection' on the false assumption that the GC's want to dominate you politically and culturally.

All I see is excuses to keep the divisions. Can you not understand that this isnt 1960 anymore? EU membership gives us certain guarantees and privelages and we should be capitalising on this not try to mitigate these privelages.