Cyprus-Forum.com

[MicAtCyp]

Cyprus President: success comes when EU principles are at stake

Nicosia, Apr 26 (CNA) -- Cyprus President Tassos Papadopoulos has welcomed the European Union position on its relations with Turkey, saying that Cyprus can achieve a lot when European values and fundamental principles are at stake.

The common position was presented today at the EU-Turkey Association Council, which provided an opportunity to review progress in EU-Turkey relations in view of the expected opening of the accession negotiations in October this year.

Luxembourg's Foreign Minister Jean Asselborn, whose country holds the EU rotating presidency, and Enlargement Commissioner Olli Rehn welcomed recent reforms in Turkey towards alignment with the acquis communautaire but warned that implementation of adopted legislation is a must. They also said Turkey has to sign and put into force the protocol to its customs union agreement with the EU, thus adapting the Ankara Agreement to exend it to all ten new members, including Cyprus.

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He,he,he. I liked the way Gul was bumbling his 18 page speach. Nobody told him its only use is for the dustbin now?

[Bananiot]

President Papadopoulos has claimed that this is a "good" document for Cyprus. This is an exerpt from this "good" for Cyprus document.

"On Cyprus, the EU looks forward to Turkey's continued support for efforts for a comprehensive settlement of the Cyprus problem within the UN framework and in line with the principles on which the Union is founded".

Read the above carefully and you will realise that the EU (including Cyprus because the document passed unanimously) accepts that Turkey has already supported and is today supporting still the efforts to find a comprehensive solution. The document says also that Turkey is supporting the efforts for a solution of the Cyprus problem within the UN framework and in line with the principles on which the Union is founded.

Dear friends, Cyprus has agreed within the EU that Turkey has been a positive player in the quest fo a solution. Turkey can now use this official document as an alibi regarding her policy on Cyprus.

In effect the EU considers that Turkey has supported and still supports a european solution. The only solution that Turkey agreed to is the A plan. Thus, it is easily deducted that the EU does endorse the A Plan as constituting a european solution.

[Kifeas]

President Papadopoulos has claimed that this is a "good" document for Cyprus. This is an exerpt from this "good" for Cyprus document.

"On Cyprus, the EU looks forward to Turkey's continued support for efforts for a comprehensive settlement of the Cyprus problem within the UN framework and in line with the principles on which the Union is founded".

Bananiot,
This is much better than the previous European Union position on its relations with Turkey, which if I remember correctly read as follows: “The E.U. welcomes the active support of Turkey for a solution of the Cyprus problem on the basis of the Annan plan.”
The difference here is that, the E.U. “looks forward” (i.e. hopes, anticipates, expects) to Turkey’s continued support (why not “continues” support?) for efforts (new efforts and not necessary on the basis or within the framework of previously failed efforts) for a comprehensive settlement of the Cyprus problem within the UN framework (and not on the basis of the UN plan’s framework) and in line with the principles on which the Union is founded. (A totally new concept that became essential, -introduced- after Cyprus accession in the E.U.)

Read the above carefully and you will realise that the EU (including Cyprus because the document passed unanimously) accepts that Turkey has already supported and is today supporting still the efforts to find a comprehensive solution.

Turkey supported in the past the efforts to find a comprehensive solution on the basis of the U.N. sponsored Annan Plan 5. It that a lie? Wasn’t the Annan plan a plan hypothetically aiming to provide a comprehensive solution? It continues to verbally support the efforts to find a comprehensive solution. It that a lie?

The document says also that Turkey is supporting the efforts for a solution of the Cyprus problem within the UN framework and in line with the principles on which the Union is founded.

The E.U. looks forward (anticipates, expects, hopes) that Turkey will maintain in the future it’s support to find a comprehensive solution. The sentence doesn’t strictly or directly imply that the previous plan was fully in line with the UN framework (presumably meaning U.N. SC resolutions) or in line with the principles on which the Union is founded.
Do you accept that A-plan5 was in line with the U.N. SC resolutions and /or the principles that the union is founded? Do not say yes because, although I do not have the time, I am prepared to give you a good beating on this.

Dear friends, Cyprus has agreed within the EU that Turkey has been a positive player in the quest fo a solution.

Cyprus has only agreed with the E.U., since last June, that Turkey has been a positive player in the pursue for a solution on the basis of the A-plan 5.

Turkey can now use this official document as an alibi regarding her policy on Cyprus.

It is one thing what Turkey will attempt to use and another thing what at the end of the day will manage to achieve.

In effect the EU considers that Turkey has supported and still supports a european solution. The only solution that Turkey agreed to is the A plan. Thus, it is easily deducted that the EU does endorse the A Plan as constituting a european solution.

These are arbitrary and unsubstantiated conclusions that you and perhaps Turkey hope to pass around. Bananiot, even the most dumb head people in this forum have realised by now that you have only one single obsession, to constantly dispute and degrade Papadopoullos.

[brother]

tassos does a good job of discrediting himself with his constant lies and deceptions, he needs no help from bananiot or anyone else at that matter.

[Bananiot]

I have never tried to hide my disaproval of Papadopoulos and whatever he represented during his long passage through Cyprus politics and affairs or whatever he represents today. Is there a law against this? Did I ever accuse you of acting like the representative of Papadopoulos in this forum? Will you for a change view my opinions on merit and stop trying to find excuses for my opinions? This childish approach of yours that I take this stance because I hate Papadopoulos is ridiculus and makes mockery of any attempt to discuss anything.

Anyway, I have given my interpretation of the exerpt and you have given yours. I still say that all the triumphant speaches made by government supporters are completeley and utterly unfounded. Sofronis Sofroniou, of Intercollege, said that probably we won ... a corner.

I still say that the common position of the of the EU is tandamount to Papadopoulos agreeing that:

1. Turkey has supported and still supports the efforts of a comprehensive solution the Cyprob.
2. This support concerned and still concerns the efforts for a solution within the framework of the UN.
3. This support of Turkey concerned and still concerns the efforts for a solution in line and with the principles of the EU.

Anyone with a fair knowledge of the english language and a bit of common sense can see this. There is no specific mention of A Plan 5 which came into the efforts at a specific moment in time. The document talks about the efforts of Turkey throughout the process and in trying to tie this statememnt down to one specific moment in time, ie Plan 5, does not give any credance to the alchemic arguments.

I believe Sofroniou was probably wrong. I doubt it whether we even won an out and if we did we do not have the player to throw the ball that far, where it matters.

[Kifeas]

I have never tried to hide my disaproval of Papadopoulos and whatever he represented during his long passage through Cyprus politics and affairs or whatever he represents today. Is there a law against this? Did I ever accuse you of acting like the representative of Papadopoulos in this forum? Will you for a change view my opinions on merit and stop trying to find excuses for my opinions? This childish approach of yours that I take this stance because I hate Papadopoulos is ridiculus and makes mockery of any attempt to discuss anything.

-Bananiot, it is you that started it all. You are the one who doesn’t give a merit to anything coming out from Papadopoullos and furthermore you spread lies and slanders against him. I wouldn’t mind it for a second if you express your opinion about him and his policies in a dignified manner and on an objective basis. As a matter of fact, I do not agree either with everything that comes out of Papadopoullos mouth or all his acts. In any case, I am prepared to give an end to it and hopefully you will help me too.

Anyway, I have given my interpretation of the exerpt and you have given yours. I still say that all the triumphant speaches made by government supporters are completeley and utterly unfounded. Sofronis Sofroniou, of Intercollege, said that probably we won ... a corner.

-Oh yeah? Sofronis Sofroniou, of Intercollege. ….The ultimate authority!

I didn’t say that I agree with the triumphant speeches made by government supporters. On the other hand, the GC side is on a much better position than it used to be right after the referendum.

[MicAtCyp]

I doubt it whether we even won an out and if we did we do not have the player to throw the ball that far, where it matters.

Wishful thinking dear Turkish Ambassador.

[Bananiot]

Kifeas says that I spread slander and lies against Papadopoulos. This is the short list I compiled to stress the point:

1. Papadopoulos has rejected every plan proposed for the solution of the Cyprob since 1955.
2. He was the vice president of the treacherous Akritas Plan that aimed at "cleaning" the TC community in one night.
3. Various prominent AKEL leaders of the past have characterised him as a Turk hater.
4. He sent a letter to the American Ambassador in 1964 warning that "if the Turkish fleet enters Cyprus waters, we have the PLAN and the MEANS to clean up all the TC's".
5. He is double faced. He accused, on numerous occasions, the late Kyprianou of being a psychopath whom foreign leaders laugh when they hear him, but now he reads the obituaries in his memorial services, telling us all what a great man he was!
6. He admitted publicly that partition is better than the A Plan.
7. His policies since becoming President have deguildified (cannedmoose, does such word exist?) Turkey.
8. Because of him we have lost many friends. We are now considered the intransigent part by all international institutions.
9. We have a President who is not respected internationally and this scares me.
10. He will not make known the changes he would like to the A plan despite numerous call by the UN to do so.
11. He introduces so many prerequisites before talks can be convened that practically makes the convening of talks impossible.
12. He hand picks the journalist that would interview him in his first major interview since becoming a President.
13. He is very divisive, labelling those that disagree with him traitors and paid agents of foreign powers.
14. He has open fronts with all the major powers of the world and his supporters think that this is a heroic stance.
15. Papadopoulos claimed that between 1963 and 1974 not a single TC was killed by a GC.

Two people tried to address some of the above points albeit with wisecracks. Where is the slander Kifeas?

[Kifeas]

Kifeas says that I spread slander and lies against Papadopoulos. This is the short list I compiled to stress the point:

Two people tried to address some of the above points albeit with wisecracks. Where is the slander Kifeas?

____________________

1. Papadopoulos has rejected every plan proposed for the solution of the Cyprob since 1955.

So? What does that mean, nowadays?

2. He was the vice president of the treacherous Akritas Plan that aimed at "cleaning" the TC community in one night.

I posted the Akritas plan in another thread and I asked you to single out a paragraph that supports your above allegation. So far you failed to do it.
Yes you are a liar and a slanderer!

3. Various prominent AKEL leaders of the past have characterised him as a Turk hater.

Oh really?? And who are these various prominent AKEL leaders? Those expelled from AKEL in the past for flirting with Klerides? Can you name them? Can you document their characterisations, except from Makarios Drousiotis opinionated articles?

4. He sent a letter to the American Ambassador in 1964 warning that "if the Turkish fleet enters Cyprus waters, we have the PLAN and the MEANS to clean up all the TC's".

Do you have this letter? Or a link?
Couldn’t it just be a bluff in order to spare us from the Turkish attack? You accept that Turkey had the moral right to attack Cyprus, but you do not accept that Papadopoullos had a moral right to even bluff in order to prevent this attack.

5. He is double faced. He accused, on numerous occasions, the late Kyprianou of being a psychopath whom foreign leaders laugh when they hear him, but now he reads the obituaries in his memorial services, telling us all what a great man he was!

Prove it!

6. He admitted publicly that partition is better than the A Plan.

Should only these two choices were available, I agree with him as far as A-plan 5 is concerned.
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There is no point going further.
Bananiot, you are an opinionated person, that doesn’t hesitate to spread lies and slanders in order to “prove” your case.

[Bananiot]

Let us have a look at these lies then:

1. You agree that Papadopoulos has rejected every single plan proposed for the solution of the Cyprus problem. Truth no. 1

2. The fact that the Akritas Plan incorporated a methodology for "cleaning up" the TC's is more than apparent in the letter Papadopoulos sent to the American Ambassador on August 6 1964. We have, he writes, the PLAN and the MEANS to clean up the TC's in 1 hour and 45 minutes. Truth no. 2

3. Read Ziartides's book "without fear and passion". There you will find all the documentations you need. Truth no. 3 (If you are still looking for lies then look at your own writings. Its the first time that I hear that in 1989 the prominent AKEL members were expelled because they were flirting with Klerides. I thought it had to do with perestroika ... ask Pavlos Dinglis)

4. Yes I have this letter but I detect that now you are trying to excuse it, not question its existence. Truth no. 4

5. Go to the PIO and get copies of "Kirikas" the official mouthpiece of "Enosis Kentrou" the party Papadopoulos set up. There you will find numerous articles signed by Papadopoulos in which he makes emetic and personal attacks on late Kyprianou. Truth no. 5

6. Again, you do not contest my statement now but rather you excuse Papadopoulos. Truth no. 6

There is no point going further. You are absoluteley right, the truth cannot remain buried for ever. It has a habit of surfacing ...