Cyprus-Forum.com

[Muzzy70]

Viewpoint, it is time for you to accept that compromise is the key. We have made a lot of compromises from our rights already. What compromises did you make? Stealing 100 and giving 10 back and asking for 50 in return is not a compromise. I hope you understand this.

Not only you do not make any compromises, but you are asking from us to compromise even our basic human rights and democracy!!

You stole our country and burned down our houses killing our people, and turning our people into refugees, where were your cries for democracy, freedom and equality back then?? your double standards when the shoe is on the other foot does not instill any confidence and therefore you have to be forced to compromise to a degree where you will not be able to push us to on side as you did in the past. We cannot steal what is already ours and much to your dismay Cyprus also belongs to us. We are willing to compromise by forsaking our safe haven and forming a partnership which you renegged on before, you didnt even abide by supreme court judgements whats makes you think that you will stick to any new agreements? You are the ones who took 100% of our recognition just giving back our rights is not a compromise its our right, you forget this as it does not suit your agenda.

Why did your people come to this terrible island in the first place? To set a new standard perhaps?

Actually fella, the Turks landed in Cyprus because Sultan Selim wanted a ready supply of Cyprus wine as he'd run out of it as a result of the Venetian's stopping the supply ! He wasn't known as 'Selim the sot' for nothing you know !

[Muzzy70]

vp, on this post I can entirely agree with what you say,

"We have covered this time and time again so I will not go into depth, what you forget is that we are not outsiders, we are off this island just like you no more no less, you were the ones who wanted to gift the island which started all the problems, you attacked us and discriminated against us luckily people still exists to tell of what they suffered at the hands of your version of democracy and human rights, you should meet some of these people, only then will you have an understanding of the damage which you GCs have inflicted on TCs. I am lucky enough to have not suffered at the hands of fanatical GCs but I still approach any union with caution because you are the kings at never accepting any responsibility for causing the Cyprus problem all blaming all and sundry. We fought back for survival and will fight back again if we have to this you can be assured of. You really need to understand is that we are no different from you but we need reassurances that the GCs as we know them are manipulative, devious and very industrious at getting what they want with or without their partners just as long as they have what they want the way the want it, the safeguards to prevent this are paramount to any solution that will be placed on the table."

I too demand of us that courage which requires that we distinguish ourselves for the betterment of the, Human, condition.

Nothing will mean an end to this Problem unless we commit ourselves to the reform of our Constitution in a manner where the Principal of Bicommunality can be demonstrated to the rest of Mankind, where it is useful to our lives. This does not mean compromise, it means conviction, and a change within ourselves. Blame, and who started "it" has nothing to do with the Solution. Reason, and the Cypriot dimension to this impasse are paramount. As Turkish Cypriots, and Greek Cypriots, we must show ourselves, and the rest of the world, to have Charity, and the Humility to look forward, beyond our own living, as the island's dwellers, as its Stewards, as a people who have survived here for millenia, close to the land, above our own desires to represent our own history as "Greek", or Turcophone.

...i know what you think about enclaves, and my proposal for their use, so that whole communities can return, in the south, as in the north. vp, i strongly suggest that you consider how politically this helps Turkish Cypriots in a National Assembly and their own diversity amongst themselves. consider as well how the line will remain basically unchanged no longer a border but a frontier, consider how this "pocketing" of the whole island makes our lives more secure, with greater movement and association, and with more choice...

To have Justice, it must be seen to be done. Neither "side" is blameless, all of us have suffered, yet it is still up to us to sacrifice again, without which, we betray ourselves.

Oh dear repulse, are you not aware that at the Geneva Peace Conference in 1974 Turkey offered both a bi-zonal federation (with GC's living in the north) and a cantonal federation to the 'Cypriot' government. Surprise, surprise it was rejected.

'Remove your life jacket and everything will be allright'.

[DT.]

vp, on this post I can entirely agree with what you say,

"We have covered this time and time again so I will not go into depth, what you forget is that we are not outsiders, we are off this island just like you no more no less, you were the ones who wanted to gift the island which started all the problems, you attacked us and discriminated against us luckily people still exists to tell of what they suffered at the hands of your version of democracy and human rights, you should meet some of these people, only then will you have an understanding of the damage which you GCs have inflicted on TCs. I am lucky enough to have not suffered at the hands of fanatical GCs but I still approach any union with caution because you are the kings at never accepting any responsibility for causing the Cyprus problem all blaming all and sundry. We fought back for survival and will fight back again if we have to this you can be assured of. You really need to understand is that we are no different from you but we need reassurances that the GCs as we know them are manipulative, devious and very industrious at getting what they want with or without their partners just as long as they have what they want the way the want it, the safeguards to prevent this are paramount to any solution that will be placed on the table."

I too demand of us that courage which requires that we distinguish ourselves for the betterment of the, Human, condition.

Nothing will mean an end to this Problem unless we commit ourselves to the reform of our Constitution in a manner where the Principal of Bicommunality can be demonstrated to the rest of Mankind, where it is useful to our lives. This does not mean compromise, it means conviction, and a change within ourselves. Blame, and who started "it" has nothing to do with the Solution. Reason, and the Cypriot dimension to this impasse are paramount. As Turkish Cypriots, and Greek Cypriots, we must show ourselves, and the rest of the world, to have Charity, and the Humility to look forward, beyond our own living, as the island's dwellers, as its Stewards, as a people who have survived here for millenia, close to the land, above our own desires to represent our own history as "Greek", or Turcophone.

...i know what you think about enclaves, and my proposal for their use, so that whole communities can return, in the south, as in the north. vp, i strongly suggest that you consider how politically this helps Turkish Cypriots in a National Assembly and their own diversity amongst themselves. consider as well how the line will remain basically unchanged no longer a border but a frontier, consider how this "pocketing" of the whole island makes our lives more secure, with greater movement and association, and with more choice...

To have Justice, it must be seen to be done. Neither "side" is blameless, all of us have suffered, yet it is still up to us to sacrifice again, without which, we betray ourselves.

Oh dear repulse, are you not aware that at the Geneva Peace Conference in 1974 Turkey offered both a bi-zonal federation (with GC's living in the north) and a cantonal federation to the 'Cypriot' government. Surprise, surprise it was rejected.

'Remove your life jacket and everything will be allright'.

the "offer" under the gun asked for 34% of the island. I know you're used to these tactics and have grown accustomed to calling an ultimatum of "1 hour to decide or else we'll annihilate you and ethnically cleanse 33% of your population" as a peace conference....but for future reference a peace conference doesn't include attacking the side your conferring with because they requested 24 hours to consult with back home.

[Muzzy70]

vp, on this post I can entirely agree with what you say,

"We have covered this time and time again so I will not go into depth, what you forget is that we are not outsiders, we are off this island just like you no more no less, you were the ones who wanted to gift the island which started all the problems, you attacked us and discriminated against us luckily people still exists to tell of what they suffered at the hands of your version of democracy and human rights, you should meet some of these people, only then will you have an understanding of the damage which you GCs have inflicted on TCs. I am lucky enough to have not suffered at the hands of fanatical GCs but I still approach any union with caution because you are the kings at never accepting any responsibility for causing the Cyprus problem all blaming all and sundry. We fought back for survival and will fight back again if we have to this you can be assured of. You really need to understand is that we are no different from you but we need reassurances that the GCs as we know them are manipulative, devious and very industrious at getting what they want with or without their partners just as long as they have what they want the way the want it, the safeguards to prevent this are paramount to any solution that will be placed on the table."

I too demand of us that courage which requires that we distinguish ourselves for the betterment of the, Human, condition.

Nothing will mean an end to this Problem unless we commit ourselves to the reform of our Constitution in a manner where the Principal of Bicommunality can be demonstrated to the rest of Mankind, where it is useful to our lives. This does not mean compromise, it means conviction, and a change within ourselves. Blame, and who started "it" has nothing to do with the Solution. Reason, and the Cypriot dimension to this impasse are paramount. As Turkish Cypriots, and Greek Cypriots, we must show ourselves, and the rest of the world, to have Charity, and the Humility to look forward, beyond our own living, as the island's dwellers, as its Stewards, as a people who have survived here for millenia, close to the land, above our own desires to represent our own history as "Greek", or Turcophone.

...i know what you think about enclaves, and my proposal for their use, so that whole communities can return, in the south, as in the north. vp, i strongly suggest that you consider how politically this helps Turkish Cypriots in a National Assembly and their own diversity amongst themselves. consider as well how the line will remain basically unchanged no longer a border but a frontier, consider how this "pocketing" of the whole island makes our lives more secure, with greater movement and association, and with more choice...

To have Justice, it must be seen to be done. Neither "side" is blameless, all of us have suffered, yet it is still up to us to sacrifice again, without which, we betray ourselves.

Oh dear repulse, are you not aware that at the Geneva Peace Conference in 1974 Turkey offered both a bi-zonal federation (with GC's living in the north) and a cantonal federation to the 'Cypriot' government. Surprise, surprise it was rejected.

'Remove your life jacket and everything will be allright'.

the "offer" under the gun asked for 34% of the island. I know you're used to these tactics and have grown accustomed to calling an ultimatum of "1 hour to decide or else we'll annihilate you and ethnically cleanse 33% of your population" as a peace conference....but for future reference a peace conference doesn't include attacking the side your conferring with because they requested 24 hours to consult with back home.

Oh yes, let's have another 24 hours to massacre Turkish villagers ! The fact of the matter is that had your 'government' of complete GC's accepted the Turkish proposals then we'd all be in a very different position today. I recommend that you read '30 Hot Days' by Mehmet Ali Birand. Even the genocidal priest Maka thought it was a good book !

[Piratis]

Muzzy, in 1974 (like always) it is the Turks who started the killing of Cypriots, we only responded. I like it how you always start the conflict, kill 1000s, and then you want to also present yourselves as the victims because in the war which you started you had a couple of 100s of casualties

Don't you say the same for the Armenians as well? That you killed 1.5 million of them, but it was their fault. And when you bomb Kurdish villages killing people indiscriminately by the 1000s you are again the victims somehow.

The Turks have always been the aggressors my friend. If Turks were not aggressors there wouldn't be any turks on this island in the first place, and if Turks had stopped being aggressors at some point then that would be the point we would have peace.

[CanDiaz]

Muzzy, in 1974 (like always) it is the Turks who started the killing of Cypriots, we only responded. I like it how you always start the conflict, kill 1000s, and then you want to also present yourselves as the victims because in the war which you started you had a couple of 100s of casualties

Don't you say the same for the Armenians as well? That you killed 1.5 million of them, but it was their fault. And when you bomb Kurdish villages killing people indiscriminately by the 1000s you are again the victims somehow.

The Turks have always been the aggressors my friend. If Turks were not aggressors there wouldn't be any turks on this island in the first place, and if Turks had stopped being aggressors at some point then that would be the point we would have peace.

I'm just curious, if 1000's of gc's were killed by just 18%(obviously not all of the 18% are young males capable of being in a "terrorist" organisation.So it must be a lot less than the 18%) Then what the hell was the rest of the GC population doing?Watching?
This is where the Cyprus story makes no sense to me, when your outnumbered 5-1, you don't start fights, unless your Jet Li of course.

[DT.]

Muzzy, in 1974 (like always) it is the Turks who started the killing of Cypriots, we only responded. I like it how you always start the conflict, kill 1000s, and then you want to also present yourselves as the victims because in the war which you started you had a couple of 100s of casualties

Don't you say the same for the Armenians as well? That you killed 1.5 million of them, but it was their fault. And when you bomb Kurdish villages killing people indiscriminately by the 1000s you are again the victims somehow.

The Turks have always been the aggressors my friend. If Turks were not aggressors there wouldn't be any turks on this island in the first place, and if Turks had stopped being aggressors at some point then that would be the point we would have peace.

I'm just curious, if 1000's of gc's were killed by just 18%(obviously not all of the 18% are young males capable of being in a "terrorist" organisation.So it must be a lot less than the 18%) Then what the hell was the rest of the GC population doing?Watching?
This is where the Cyprus story makes no sense to me, when your outnumbered 5-1, you don't start fights, unless your Jet Li of course.

In 74 18% of the population had a little help from 40,000 Turkish troops.

We were too busy fighting ourselves.

[Get Real!]

Muzzy, in 1974 (like always) it is the Turks who started the killing of Cypriots, we only responded. I like it how you always start the conflict, kill 1000s, and then you want to also present yourselves as the victims because in the war which you started you had a couple of 100s of casualties

Don't you say the same for the Armenians as well? That you killed 1.5 million of them, but it was their fault. And when you bomb Kurdish villages killing people indiscriminately by the 1000s you are again the victims somehow.

The Turks have always been the aggressors my friend. If Turks were not aggressors there wouldn't be any turks on this island in the first place, and if Turks had stopped being aggressors at some point then that would be the point we would have peace.

I'm just curious, if 1000's of gc's were killed by just 18%(obviously not all of the 18% are young males capable of being in a "terrorist" organisation.So it must be a lot less than the 18%) Then what the hell was the rest of the GC population doing?Watching?
This is where the Cyprus story makes no sense to me, when your outnumbered 5-1, you don't start fights, unless your Jet Li of course.

Piratis is very clear with his "Turks" not "TCs" so just read what is there not what you want please...

[CanDiaz]

Muzzy, in 1974 (like always) it is the Turks who started the killing of Cypriots, we only responded. I like it how you always start the conflict, kill 1000s, and then you want to also present yourselves as the victims because in the war which you started you had a couple of 100s of casualties

Don't you say the same for the Armenians as well? That you killed 1.5 million of them, but it was their fault. And when you bomb Kurdish villages killing people indiscriminately by the 1000s you are again the victims somehow.

The Turks have always been the aggressors my friend. If Turks were not aggressors there wouldn't be any turks on this island in the first place, and if Turks had stopped being aggressors at some point then that would be the point we would have peace.

I'm just curious, if 1000's of gc's were killed by just 18%(obviously not all of the 18% are young males capable of being in a "terrorist" organisation.So it must be a lot less than the 18%) Then what the hell was the rest of the GC population doing?Watching?
This is where the Cyprus story makes no sense to me, when your outnumbered 5-1, you don't start fights, unless your Jet Li of course.

In 74 18% of the population had a little help from 40,000 Turkish troops.

We were too busy fighting ourselves.

So before 1974, no GC's were killed by TC's?

[CanDiaz]

Muzzy, in 1974 (like always) it is the Turks who started the killing of Cypriots, we only responded. I like it how you always start the conflict, kill 1000s, and then you want to also present yourselves as the victims because in the war which you started you had a couple of 100s of casualties

Don't you say the same for the Armenians as well? That you killed 1.5 million of them, but it was their fault. And when you bomb Kurdish villages killing people indiscriminately by the 1000s you are again the victims somehow.

The Turks have always been the aggressors my friend. If Turks were not aggressors there wouldn't be any turks on this island in the first place, and if Turks had stopped being aggressors at some point then that would be the point we would have peace.

I'm just curious, if 1000's of gc's were killed by just 18%(obviously not all of the 18% are young males capable of being in a "terrorist" organisation.So it must be a lot less than the 18%) Then what the hell was the rest of the GC population doing?Watching?
This is where the Cyprus story makes no sense to me, when your outnumbered 5-1, you don't start fights, unless your Jet Li of course.

Piratis is very clear with his "Turks" not "TCs" so just read what is there not what you want please...

Ok i see it now, sorry.Rather confusing all this GC, TC, Turk, Greek, Roman, Crusader knight, Lusignan etc.