Cyprus-Forum.com

[halil]

Piratis,

What happens to any elected officials in the RoC if they go back on their promises made before elections to seek office, but once in office, they go back on their promises.

In the states, some officials, like Governors can be recalled in a special election to be replaced as a non confidence measure. That's how Arnold Schwarzenegger became Governor of California, after a sitting Governor (Davis) was removed by the voters.

Unfortunately in Cyprus we don't have such thing.

However this is a critical issue and cheating the Cypriot people on it is a very serious offense. I hope Christofias will not do such thing, but if he does then I think the next step would be to conduct surveys, and if the results of those surveys show that the majority of the Cypriot do not support the moves that Christofias is making then to ask for a GC only referendum and let the people decide in a democratic and direct way as they did in 2004.

Here I have to remind Bananiot that in the elections we had a candidate who supported the Annan plan with only minor changes to it. That candidate was Themistocleous, not Christofias, and he received less than 1% of the votes.

İzzet İzcan and his party received less than 0.1 % of votes at north . does not mean people are not supporting his party views . above argument is not valid . important is what the people are thinking now and how the leadership in south is going to direct her people and how there doing to achive the peace process.

Halil,

0.1% of true TC's of 120,000 in the north, is only 120 persons, so it is safe to say, that people are not supporting Izzet Izcan's views as of the last elections in the north few years ago. The elections in the RoC only happened few months ago, so I doubt if the opinions of many GC's have since changed.

Kikapu ,
what i am trying to say is percentages are not showing peoples ideas sometimes .everything depends how they are leaderships (or our ) will quide they are own people .
you are right opinionns in GC's side also change .
suprise meeting is taking on today at Nicosia . Disi is visiting UBP at Nicosia today , it will be first time .Now disi leader ship and UBP is taling at UBP headquarters.

[Get Real!]

Just before the 2004 referendum, Christofias promised that AKEL would vote "no" in order to cement a "yes" vote from the Greek Cypriot community after the Annan Plan is modified in a minor way.

After last week's meeting between Christofias and Talat, the rejectionists of both sides have started beating their drums. Perdev, Denktash and the Grey wolves have formed a holy alliance with Papadopoulos, Perdikis, Omirou and Sillouris. Their mission is to destroy whatever chances we have to find a solution.

Christofias seems to be consistent with what he was saying back then. Luckily for all solution seeking Cypriots, the leader of DISI, Nikos Anastasiades, has sided firmly with the President and things are beginning to look bright.

Utter garbage thread full of assumptions and manufactured nonsense.

[DT.]

Its very simple. The AP is dead, anything resembling the AP wil not be accepted by the GC's. The only one that has anything to gain out of presenting us with a plan we're sure to reject is Turkey.

There are a million fair concessions that the ROC is willing to make and has already made which will make the qualty of life of TC's better. What i don't understand is when we start arguing about concessions we should be making that makes the quality of life of the Turkish millitary better.


WHATS WRONG WITH
- Amend the constitution,
- provide a requirement for special majorities by the TC's to be needed with issues affecting only TC's.
- CHange the national anthem
- Take care of the refugees with land or compensation
- repatriate illegal settlers
- Make Greek and Turkish compulsory in all schools
- demillitarise the island either permanently or temporarily until a good formula is found to convince people of their allegiance to the island and not to the motherlands.

What is the point of ethnically turkish zones and greek zones when you have provisions in the consitution that the numerical minority will enjoy special majority powers for issues affecting its security and human rights. If its must be bi-zonal then start with ethnic segregation and proceed to re-name the zones to north and south (rather than greek and turkish) later on.

Why would anyone want a permanent turkish zone if they weren't trying to keep the window open for a possible split later on?

Its all very simple if you look between the lines you will see the true intentions behind both sides red lines

Virgin birth
A new state and not a continuation of the ROC
TRANSLATION
2 new statelets with equal international standing. Should one decide to split off from the federation the other will not have any legal standing to prevent it.

MAINTENANCE OF TREATY OF GAURANTEE
the only part of the ROC constitution allowed to be carried through. The possibility for unilateral intervention in case of a very wide interpretation of events happening.
TRANSLATION
One terrorist bomb from a GC, TC, Al Quaeeda, IRA, IRS, CNN etc could be interpreted as a cause to intervene. COnsidering Turkey's past performance we have another window for a 2 state split later on.

SETTLERS
Mainand Turkish settlers.
TRANSLATION
We do not believe in numerical majorities on this island but in any case we've beefed up our numbers and soon as we pass the 750k mark we might just have a look at this thing called democracy.

Can't we at least ask the question...Why are all of Turkey's red lines aimed at leaving a window open for a possible split later on?

[Viewpoint]

Its very simple. The AP is dead, anything resembling the AP wil not be accepted by the GC's. The only one that has anything to gain out of presenting us with a plan we're sure to reject is Turkey.

There are a million fair concessions that the ROC is willing to make and has already made which will make the qualty of life of TC's better. What i don't understand is when we start arguing about concessions we should be making that makes the quality of life of the Turkish millitary better.


WHATS WRONG WITH
- Amend the constitution,
- provide a requirement for special majorities by the TC's to be needed with issues affecting only TC's.
- CHange the national anthem
- Take care of the refugees with land or compensation
- repatriate illegal settlers
- Make Greek and Turkish compulsory in all schools
- demillitarise the island either permanently or temporarily until a good formula is found to convince people of their allegiance to the island and not to the motherlands.

What is the point of ethnically turkish zones and greek zones when you have provisions in the consitution that the numerical minority will enjoy special majority powers for issues affecting its security and human rights. If its must be bi-zonal then start with ethnic segregation and proceed to re-name the zones to north and south (rather than greek and turkish) later on.

Why would anyone want a permanent turkish zone if they weren't trying to keep the window open for a possible split later on?

Its all very simple if you look between the lines you will see the true intentions behind both sides red lines

Virgin birth
A new state and not a continuation of the ROC
TRANSLATION
2 new statelets with equal international standing. Should one decide to split off from the federation the other will not have any legal standing to prevent it.

MAINTENANCE OF TREATY OF GAURANTEE
the only part of the ROC constitution allowed to be carried through. The possibility for unilateral intervention in case of a very wide interpretation of events happening.
TRANSLATION
One terrorist bomb from a GC, TC, Al Quaeeda, IRA, IRS, CNN etc could be interpreted as a cause to intervene. COnsidering Turkey's past performance we have another window for a 2 state split later on.

SETTLERS
Mainand Turkish settlers.
TRANSLATION
We do not believe in numerical majorities on this island but in any case we've beefed up our numbers and soon as we pass the 750k mark we might just have a look at this thing called democracy.

Can't we at least ask the question...Why are all of Turkey's red lines aimed at leaving a window open for a possible split later on?

You should really be asking yourselves that question as on this side we do not trust or expect you to do the right thing so you have to be forced to do so.

[Kifeas]

Just before the 2004 referendum, Christofias promised that AKEL would vote "no" in order to cement a "yes" vote from the Greek Cypriot community after the Annan Plan is modified in a minor way.

After last week's meeting between Christofias and Talat, the rejectionists of both sides have started beating their drums. Perdev, Denktash and the Grey wolves have formed a holy alliance with Papadopoulos, Perdikis, Omirou and Sillouris. Their mission is to destroy whatever chances we have to find a solution.

Christofias seems to be consistent with what he was saying back then. Luckily for all solution seeking Cypriots, the leader of DISI, Nikos Anastasiades, has sided firmly with the President and things are beginning to look bright.

Bananiot, are you in all seriousness claiming that what Christofias is aiming at, is to bring back the Anan plan with some minor changes? Is this what Christofias is all about? Are you seriously claiming that Christofias is on the course of bringing back a plan that, besides the fact that it was rejected by 76% of the people, and in spite all its deficiencies, it was also a plan that was made for a Cyprus before EU accession?

I am mean, how more unserious can someone possibly get in its misleading efforts, than you have?

[Bananiot]

I am claiming (in all seriousness) that the next plan, call it whatever you like, will have many of the provisions of the Annan Plan. I do not think the Turkish Cypriot side will accept major changes and no one will accuse them after saying yes to the UN brokered plan in 2004. We cannot afford to be the side that will reject another plan and I have a sneaking suspision Christofias knew of this when he embarked in the current process which will lead, it seems, to negotiations within the next couple of months. He knows exactly what he is doing.

[Oracle]

Bananiot ... why are you trying to make President Christofias look sneaky and bad?

You did the same with Papadopoulos, now you have found a different angle to try and make this President look bad too!

[Kifeas]

I am claiming (in all seriousness) that the next plan, call it whatever you like, will have many of the provisions of the Annan Plan. I do not think the Turkish Cypriot side will accept major changes and no one will accuse them after saying yes to the UN brokered plan in 2004. We cannot afford to be the side that will reject another plan and I have a sneaking suspision Christofias knew of this when he embarked in the current process which will lead, it seems, to negotiations within the next couple of months. He knows exactly what he is doing.

Bananiot, I am all too often trying to follow your logic, but I keep failing. Is the Anan plan the basis of this new process of negotiations, for the TCs to legitimately bring up such an argument; i.e. that they cannot accept something or they must have something else, only because they previously said yes to the Anan plan? Will this be a serious argument, considering that the plan is not the basis of the negotiations any more?Do you realize that, at the stage the Cyprus issue has come, anything any of the two sides puts forward as a proposal or a counter proposal, or a rejection to one such proposal or counter proposal, has to be soundly justifiable in the eyes of all the main international players, more so of the EU and its member states?

Furthermore, can you possibly tell me just a few examples of issues that you think the GC side may want to see changed, in comparison to those provided in the Anan Plan, and which the TC side will not accept, but for which it will easily manage to convince the international community that their non-acceptance is only fair, just because they accepted the previous plan?

Tell me something in relation to the property issue, for example, or something relating to the federal government arrangements, or something relating to the territorial issue, or anything else for this matter!

[Rebel.Without.A.Pause]

What is the point of ethnically turkish zones and greek zones when you have provisions in the consitution that the numerical minority will enjoy special majority powers for issues affecting its security and human rights. If its must be bi-zonal then start with ethnic segregation and proceed to re-name the zones to north and south (rather than greek and turkish) later on.

Why would anyone want a permanent turkish zone if they weren't trying to keep the window open for a possible split later on?

Its all very simple if you look between the lines you will see the true intentions behind both sides red lines

No one has given me a clear answer as too how 'ethnic zones' will be legit in an EU state. Being an EU citizen means you can settle freely within its borders. What is stopping someone who is refused permission to live an an 'ethnic zone' because of their ethnicity, going to the ECHR or EU courts and saying such a policy is against EU law???

[DT.]

What is the point of ethnically turkish zones and greek zones when you have provisions in the consitution that the numerical minority will enjoy special majority powers for issues affecting its security and human rights. If its must be bi-zonal then start with ethnic segregation and proceed to re-name the zones to north and south (rather than greek and turkish) later on.

Why would anyone want a permanent turkish zone if they weren't trying to keep the window open for a possible split later on?

Its all very simple if you look between the lines you will see the true intentions behind both sides red lines

No one has given me a clear answer as too how 'ethnic zones' will be legit in an EU state. Being an EU citizen means you can settle freely within its borders. What is stopping someone who is refused permission to live an an 'ethnic zone' because of their ethnicity, going to the ECHR or EU courts and saying such a policy is against EU law???

if you read up on the Turkish insistence to make th agreement "Primary Law" in Cyprus you will understand how it will supercede EU law.