Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

So are you saying you do not agree with the "facts" presented on the link from greece.org?

That's what you're saying. I have alternative sites I would rather use for the Cyprus timeline.

[CopperLine]

The problem is not putting together a timeline - this happened then, that happened afterwards, this happened before. Chronology is the easy bit.

The issue is (a) what events are included or excluded from the timeline/chronology; and (b) what the significance or meaning of the events included/excluded are taken to be. This is a basic problem of any historical analysis; it is the bread-and-butter of the historian's craft.

This problem is exactly what BirKibrisli and Denizaksulu clearly identified in different ways. It is naive and misleading to simply claim as Get Real does that there are simple, straightforward facts. How those 'facts' are presented, which adjectives precede those 'facts', which 'facts' are omitted, etc make a massive difference to the evaluation of history.

As I've said many times on this forum, people like Get Real and Oracle and others seem unable to tell the difference between Ottoman and Turk/Turkey. They conveniently conflate these two terms and in so doing try to tell a history of hundreds of years of undifferentiated 'Turkish' attack on Greek Cypriots. This is total nonsense. Are they aware that the Ottoman empire and dynasty was NOT ethnically Turk ? Are they aware that Cyprus was sold, betrayed, massacred, despoiled, plundered many more times by Lusignans, Franks, Venetians, Byzantines, British than Turks ? Indeed if one were to compose a timeline then the only open intervention by Turks/Turkey in Cyprus was in 1974 and onwards. But to say so would undermine the basic story of Greek Cypriot nationalists like Oracle and Get Real which relies upon a story of continuous oppression by Turks. Trouble is, their story simply does not stand up to historical scrutiny.

[denizaksulu]

Blaming the GCs for presenting their history with supposed omissions to justify the Turks actions, is like an Auschwitz survivor writing his memoirs from the concentration camp and slotting in that he, the Jew, was at fault for existing, and getting in the way of the expansionist plans of Hitler (aka Turkey).

Come on now ... pull the other one

Oracle, I am not blaming any GC. Only GR for accepting that Cyprus Time line which decides to omit important events where the TCs are concerned. Please dont tell me you also suffer from the same affliction as GR.

[umit07]

So are you saying you do not agree with the "facts" presented on the link from greece.org?

That's what you're saying. I have alternative sites I would rather use for the Cyprus timeline.

Mind giving us the links of these sites.

[Get Real!]

Blaming the GCs for presenting their history with supposed omissions to justify the Turks actions, is like an Auschwitz survivor writing his memoirs from the concentration camp and slotting in that he, the Jew, was at fault for existing, and getting in the way of the expansionist plans of Hitler (aka Turkey).

Come on now ... pull the other one

Oracle, I am not blaming any GC. Only GR for accepting that Cyprus Time line which decides to omit important events where the TCs are concerned. Please dont tell me you also suffer from the same affliction as GR.

GR did NOT accept that timeline or any other, but the problem is that most of you are unable to read what is actually there and opt to read what you want in these mediocre badly presented threads which provide you with the only sanctuary to survive!

Do you and Copperline REALLY want to debate politics?

COME TO GR's AIR-TIGHT THREADS AND SHOW ME WHAT YOU'RE MADE OF…

[Oracle]

This is not in answer to CopperLine's post ...

I do not hate and blame the Turks because I am ignorant of other historical facts to do with Romans, Venetians whatever!

I do not blame and hate Turks and Ottomans of the past because nobody (not even CopperLine ) knows exactly where they come from and how they mixed...

I hate and blame the Turks because they are the ones currently occupying nearly half my country and preventing my people going back to their homes of many generations.

Sometimes the truth can be simple ....

[BirKibrisli]

This is not in answer to CopperLine's post ...

I do not hate and blame the Turks because I am ignorant of other historical facts to do with Romans, Venetians whatever!

I do not blame and hate Turks and Ottomans of the past because nobody (not even CopperLine ) knows exactly where they come from and how they mixed...

I hate and blame the Turks because they are the ones currently occupying nearly half my country and preventing my people going back to their homes of many generations.

Sometimes the truth can be simple ....

And how is hatred and blame for the Turks helping you????
How is it helping to right the wrongs that you perceive???
Why don't you hate your parents for giving you birth???
Why don't you hate them for giving you the genes and DNA and that particular ethnic affiliation that you have???? You might as well...
Why don't you hate the Americans or the British or the Byzantines for that matter??? What about the Romans and the Venetians????
Is your imagination so limited that you cannot see the historical,political and internationally strategic forces at work in Cyprus...
You know what the simple truth is,Oracle..?You are a bitter and twisted person and you need someone to hate...So you hate the first person(or nation) your sick conscience allows you to hate...

[Oracle]

This is not in answer to CopperLine's post ...

I do not hate and blame the Turks because I am ignorant of other historical facts to do with Romans, Venetians whatever!

I do not blame and hate Turks and Ottomans of the past because nobody (not even CopperLine ) knows exactly where they come from and how they mixed...

I hate and blame the Turks because they are the ones currently occupying nearly half my country and preventing my people going back to their homes of many generations.

Sometimes the truth can be simple ....

And how is hatred and blame for the Turks helping you????
How is it helping to right the wrongs that you perceive???
Why don't you hate your parents for giving you birth???
Why don't you hate them for giving you the genes and DNA and that particular ethnic affiliation that you have???? You might as well...
Why don't you hate the Americans or the British or the Byzantines for that matter??? What about the Romans and the Venetians????
Is your imagination so limited that you cannot see the historical,political and internationally strategic forces at work in Cyprus...
You know what the simple truth is,Oracle..?You are a bitter and twisted person and you need someone to hate...So you hate the first person(or nation) your sick conscience allows you to hate...

I hope your time away from the forum de-clutters your brain.

Your ill-founded attempts to shame me from admitting I hate Turkey remind me of someone who used exactly the same arguments to stop me loving someone.

I have personal experience to hate Turkey, just as I had personal experience to love person X.

I did not "wish" to feel one emotion or other, so I am not bitter nor twisted. Both happen through experience. It is your arrogant brainwashing tactics which are bitter and twisted.

Love and hate are brought on by similar biochemistry. Used properly both increase development and improvement of mankind. Like Piratis' thread on acceptance and rejection, so the terms love and hate can be used interchangeably.

It is the means to justify that love or hate that need attention not whether I do or don't.

My means are to seek truth and justice.

So do not try to "brainwash" me out of love nor hate. My methods are peaceful.

Bir ... stop taking the Prozac-view of life and be honest to your emotions, and look to using rightful methods to satisfy emotions brought on by an examined life worth living.

(P.S. I pity any teenagers in your hands .... you have powerful brainwashing methodology. )

[Oracle]

Why don't you hate them for giving you the genes and DNA and that particular ethnic affiliation that you have????

BTW Bir .... your generation still cling to this. This myth needs updating.

It is unfounded to assume one species is better than another because of gene sequence variations.

It is unfounded to assume one ethnic group is better than another because of gene sequence variations.

There are only 4 bases which make up all the DNA on Earth .... just as there are only a few notes with which we compose all the music of the world.

Do you want to hear the same piece of music played endlessly without variation?

P.S. For those fanatics of survival of the fittest, I will add that the DNA does not go extinct ..... it just re-arranges its sequence ... a variation on a theme!

....... there's a bit of dinosaur in all of us

[observer]

This was my favourite bit of the timeline:

2004 The Cypriot people resoundingly reject a plan by the fraudulent and corrupt UN Secretary General Kofi Annan to partition Cyprus and create an apartheid state as demanded by Turkey.

Can this be the same fraudulent and corrupt UN whose resolutions the GCs keep talking about?