Cyprus-Forum.com

[Oracle]

The irony in this BBF thing is that perhaps the only people who will be left with a tangible plus at the end of it are the settlers. They will get compensation and go back to their native villages. The money will be enough for them to invest and have something tangible in their home towns.

Im not sure what you are basing the above on. Which settlers are you talking about? The ones who came from 74 till 1990? or the ones after? The ones after 1990 might accept monetary compensation to go back, the vast majority of the ones who came before that will certainly not. They sold everything they had in turkey, if they had anything and came here and started raising families, their children know no other home but cyprus and it will probably be hard for them to find any employment back in turkey after living here so long, especially if they are close to the retirement age. Certainly most TC's will not support their repatritation back to turkey if they have been here so long. Another portion of them is married in with the TC population. These people will not be going anywhere.

Not good enough excuses ... what about the GCs who were forced to leave their homes of many generations? ... You Turks did not consider their feelings then, why should we consider the feelings of these opportunists? ... Are you relying on our famous goodwill to accommodate you and your kind yet again when all you have done is abuse us and violate us in our own country?

If Turkey lied to them about any permanency ... let them take it up with Turkey! We owe them nothing. Sort yourselves out, have a civil war ...

[turkkan]

Not good enough excuses ... what about the GCs who were forced to leave their homes of many generations? ... You Turks did not consider their feelings then, why should we consider the feelings of these opportunists? ... Are you relying on our famous goodwill to accommodate you and your kind yet again when all you have done is abuse us and violate us in our own country.

If Turkey lied to them about any permanency ... let them take it up with Turkey! We owe them nothing. Sort yourselves out, have a civil war ...

Im not making excuses, im just telling you hows it going to be. The way nikitas was speaking was that it was a given that the settlers were going to accept monetary compensation and just go, common greek thinking as they consider that the settlers do not value what they have in cyprus are just 'pawns'. The vast majority of them will not accept to be repatriated and a lot of htem cant be as they are married to TC's. As for what the GC's suffered I simply could'nt care less. No turkish goverment or TC administration will allow the vast majority of settlers to leave, only those who have come lately or are willing to leave.

[Oracle]

Not good enough excuses ... what about the GCs who were forced to leave their homes of many generations? ... You Turks did not consider their feelings then, why should we consider the feelings of these opportunists? ... Are you relying on our famous goodwill to accommodate you and your kind yet again when all you have done is abuse us and violate us in our own country.

If Turkey lied to them about any permanency ... let them take it up with Turkey! We owe them nothing. Sort yourselves out, have a civil war ...

Im not making excuses, im just telling you hows it going to be. The way nikitas was speaking was that it was a given that the settlers were going to accept monetary compensation and just go, common greek thinking as they consider that the settlers do not value what they have in cyprus are just 'pawns'. The vast majority of them will not accept to be repatriated and a lot of htem cant be as they are married to TC's. As for what the GC's suffered I simply could'nt care less. No turkish goverment or TC administration will allow the vast majority of settlers to leave, only those who have come lately or are willing to leave.

Of that we are fully aware ...

But have you considered the scenario where it may not be the say-so of a Turkish Government regarding their fate ...

[Nikitas]

Some settlers have married a Cypriot and therefore are by right able to claim Cypriot nationality and residence. There are many who have become Cypriots by choice, OK for those, there are plenty more, I cannot venture a guess at what percentage of the total, who will accept a generous monetary compensation and leave. They still have roots in Turkey, as I have roots in Cyprus even though I am absent for 35 years.

In another thread I posted the opinion that if accomodation is made for settlers then an equal effort must be made for expatriated Cypriots like me and many thousands more.

But that is not the main point of this thread. After a BBF is established there will be dynamic processes going on. One of the major problems for settlers will be that neither community, and especially the TCs will want to give them the coveted positions in the three governments. I am not being anti settler here, the same would occur with mainland Greeks in the south, if there were any they would not find easy employment in civil service jobs for which we all know there is fierce competition and all means fair and foul are used to get a position. It is not necessary to have settler return programmes because the dynamics of the situation will push them out.

Same goes in the commercial sector where Cypriots will establish their networks of collaboration and mutual benefit based on a common culture and way of doing business.
As for the return irate GCs to tgheir homes, well the roadblocks have been open for four years now and we do not hear of irate people trying to reclaim their homes by force. What might happen after a period of months and years is that people will gravitate where they feel comfortable and where the money is. Sure the village of Angastina raises some fond memories for its former inhabitants. But if the money and the job is in Limassol that is where people will want to be. Overall we might find that the population in the future will live in four or five conurbations and commute to the country for their agricultural jobs, if they do not hand them over to immigrant workers. Already we are seeing this pattern emerge in the south with many villages becoming weekday ghost towns. Same goes for Turkey where one fifth of its population is in Istanbul and for Greece where half the population is in Athens and the surrounding area.

[turkkan]

what about the GCs who were forced to leave their homes of many generations?

Let me just add this is a different issue. A settler staying does not necessarily mean they will stay on the same plot of land they are now on. If their is a solution there will be canton states and a certain portion of GC's will be allowed to return within that canton state,if a settler has to move like a lot of TC;s will have to relocate then thats not so much of a problem, but the issue you are discussing here is whether they will stay in Cyprus or not as citizens.

[Nikitas]

Perhaps the behavior of TCs themselves will determine if and how many settlers will stay on as citizens. Assuming a fair territorial settlement the GC reaction to the settlers is not the main point, the TC reaction though is vital. I get the feeling that a settler will have a hard time of it in post BBF northern Cyprus. Just a feeling I have, not anything that I can back with evidence.

[CopperLine]

Again I agree with Nikitas. Sure there are some peculiarities of the Cyprus problem, but we should not lose sight of the fact that industrial, agricultural and urban development typical of a Mediterranean tourism-based economy is likely to dominate. Already in both north and south the pattern that Nikitas identified has already emerged though to different degrees. The agricultural economy of thirty five years ago has all but given way to a tourism economy or other service economy. Those actually working on the land, just as across Europe, will increasingly be the lowest paid migrant labour. Maybe in Cyprus at the moment Turkish labour is cheapest, but the odds are that they'll in turn be displaced by Syrians, Iraqis or West Africans. EU or no EU these people will be screwed and have no rights or protection.

The day after BBF it'll be these kinds of things which shape ordinary life.

[Nikitas]

Yes Copperline, once the heroics are done and the issue is resolved, we will have our true selves to deal with.

The first will be the allocation of civil service jobs and that should be funny to see. How Cypriots will mobilise family and other networks to ensure their children find a "secure" job in the civil services. I can imagine the machinations when there are not one but three civil services with job offerings. And the translator jobs going will be staggering.

Our farmers naturally will turn themselves into farm managers as have done their counterparts in the rest of the EU. On this particular point there is an interesting case, an unfortunate Pakistani was killed a few months ago in the Greek countryside near Thiva when he was attacked by a deer in a private zoo. He had gone in to feed the animals while the landowner was at his house in Athens. Once a tragedy occurs the authorities start to ask about work permits, safe working conditions etc. No one had asked before the accident. Similar cases occur everywhere in the EU from Cyprus to Ireland. Maybe we should invent a european term for wetback and we can be more like Texan ranchers.

[humanist]

Nikitas

We have been through the debates of what solution is fair and feasible in the circumstances. By common agreement it is a Bicommunal Biregional Federation. So what would it be like to live in this BBF as Cypriots with the problems solved?

As a Cypriot I look into my crystal ball and see among other t hings the following:

Turkey is there, perhaps with 650 soldiers, but definitely with a whole bunch of "advisers" etc. The Turkish embassy in north Nicosia is definitely a power hub and many appointments in the regional government are decided there and not the ministerial offices or the regional parliament.

The system of cronyism we have known from the old days is still active, but now it is in triplicate- it works in the two regional civil services as well as the central government. At least for appointments in the central government it enforces some bicommunal cooperation among applicants for jobs, who now must seek favor with official of the "other" side.

Money, like water, finds its own level. Rich people from both communities cooperate to get richer. They probably enjoy more intercommunal contact than anyone else on the island. The property boom favors these contacts, naturally.

And there is another factor, the EU, with its various programmes and opportunities for clever and agile dudes who form NGOs to harness funds aimed at various meaningless projects, from improving intercommunal contacts to saving the turtles of Akamas and Karpasia. At least these guys do not have to kiss ass in triplicate, only once, Euro style.

These are some of the facets of the day after BBF, I am sure all of you have some visions of the post solution situation.

Dear Nikitas

I see your onto it. Or am just an old cynical man like you :):):):)

[Nikitas]

Yia sou re Andrea!

Sometimes I hear the news in English on CYBC and those newscasters must be among the handful of expatriated Cypriots with jobs in the Cyprus civil service, which in the broad sense includes the CYBC. AN expat Cypriot getting a job in the civil service of Cyprus would warrant front page news. The locals clinch the jobs through their contacts very fast! Same thing will happen in a triple layered civils service only three times as much.

Once I was told that the ability to get a civil service job requires Greek language skills. Yes, it might, but there are plenty of examples of our esteemed diplomatic corps where appointments were made to people who not only do not speak the language of the country they are posted in but not even English, the universal "foreign" language.