Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

The fundamental question for me is the territorial one. I am getting cynical in my old age and foresee that no matter what solution we opt for, within ten years there will be a manufactures crisis that will become the TC/Turkish pretext to secede from the "unitary state". Having gotten the title of "component state" it is reasonable to expect that recognition will follow. So it is best to have the territory fairly proportioned in anticipation of such a secession.

Christofias during his pre election campaign said that he has a plan for territorial apportionment that will guaranteed return of all refugees to their abodes and yet still leave a TC majority in the north. That sounds like a single hopeful message, because for that to happen the territory will have to be closer to the 82-18 share than anything proposed so far. Let us hope that his Marxist materialist ideology will guide him in this phase of the negotiations.

The other important part is that the new agreement MUST decree that the TC territory is part of the island and not the RoC, and to avoid ambiguities it should add that the British bases burden GC territory, if they leave the land reverts to the GC side. This is vital to avoid a territorial conflict in the future.

[Kikapu]

Christofias gave in!

Today it should be marked as a dark day in the annals of the Greek Cypriot community! Christofias, knowingly or unknowingly - intentionally or unintentionally, has given in to the Turkish demands for the dissolution of the RoC and the via “virgin-birth” establishment of a new entity which will be based on the partnership of two separate and ethnically based and owned entities! Not only he gave up the sovereignty of the RoC, by recognizing sovereignty to the “TRNC,” as a constituent partner of the new “federal” entity, but he also gave up the RoC as an entity -in its entireness, and accepted its devaluation to a Greek Cypriot constituent state!

The following line in the joined communiqué, after today’s meeting between Christofias and Talat, will be proved detrimental to the future of re-unification of Cyprus, and to the historical rights of the Greek Cypriot community in the northern part of our country! It is a disaster! No matter what will be said about this meeting and the joined communiqué, the damage is tremendous, and history will prove me right! I have no hope to any re-reunification solution! Unfortunately my fears about Christofias are proved to have been justified! He has proven himself inferior to his undertaken position and role!

``They reaffirmed their commitment for a bizonal bicommunal federation with political equality, as defined by relevant Security Council resolutions. This partnership will have a federal government with a single international personality, as well as a Turkish Cypriot constituent state and a Greek Cypriot constituent state which will be of equal status,``

http://www.cna.org.cy/website/english/a ... 2.asp?id=1

Christofias did not "bother" securing that this "partnership" will be on the basis of the two communities, as such, instead of the two states! He further did not "bother" securing that this "partnership" is not an entirely new partnership but a re-development of the existing 1960 bi-communal RoC partnership! He did not bother seeking a definition of what the adjectives "Turkish Cypriot" and "Greek Cypriot" states should imply, living in this way the cultural and political rights of the members of the Greek Cypriot in the north under jeopardy and potential eradication! He even accepted the use of the term "constituent" states, instead of "component" states; allowing in this way the Turkish side to claim and insist that the two states will be the constituents (will constitute) the central government, instead of being mere components of a one and single federal nation-state! He accepted the same philosophy of the rejected by the 76% of the GCs Anan plan 5! What a shame!

PS: And before some idiots will tell me that I did not comment on the closure for a “single international personality,” I say before hand that this is nonsense! It means nothing! It is just like saying that the EU has a one single international personality, or that the UN as an organization has one single international personality! It is meaningless, because if under the veil of this “single international personality,” two separate entities may function and regulate the everyday life of the people (citizens) of this country in separatist and apartheid ways, and under prejudicing constitutions and laws (as the case seems to be,) this is what counts to the individual citizens, and not if the international personality of such a monstrosity will be single or multiple!

Kifeas,

I would not jump to conclusions just yet. Now, it may be as you think it is, but then again, it may not be.

It is possible that Christofias has said that he was committed to a solution just as you described, but what has he asked in return, i.e., no guarantors , all refugees must return back to their properties, all settlers must return back to Turkey, the GC's will be allowed to vote in the north, and so on. No doubt these demands will be rejected by Turkey and then we are back to square one.

Personally I'll wait for the final version of any agreements before getting too exited.

[Get Real!]

All they have managed to accomplish today is to jump many steps closer to the failure of the current negotiations because Christofias alone cannot decide anything for Cyprus… it’s her people that will have the final say.

[unitedwestand]

I do not think that we can afford to reject another referendum if the TCs say yes again.

There is a danger that after we reject another proposed solution, the international community will say enough is enough and the realities on the island must now be accepted, hence the recognition of the "TRNC". They recognised Kosovo, so if we are seen to be the bad guys again in a referendum, I believe the US, followed by Britain etc would probably recognise the "TRNC". They would possibly spin it by arguing that no solution can ever be agreed as the sides are simply too far apart, and hence the realities on the island must be recognised as TCs cannot be in isolation forever. This is just my opinion, but you must accept that there is a danger of this happening. Therefore, we cannot really afford to reject another referendum.

The truth is Cyprus will never be truly unified, unless a dramatic change occurs in the balance of power.

TORA TORA TORA

[unitedwestand]

Christofias gave in!

Today it should be marked as a dark day in the annals of the Greek Cypriot community! Christofias, knowingly or unknowingly - intentionally or unintentionally, has given in to the Turkish demands for the dissolution of the RoC and the via “virgin-birth” establishment of a new entity which will be based on the partnership of two separate and ethnically based and owned entities! Not only he gave up the sovereignty of the RoC, by recognizing sovereignty to the “TRNC,” as a constituent partner of the new “federal” entity, but he also gave up the RoC as an entity -in its entireness, and accepted its devaluation to a Greek Cypriot constituent state!

The following line in the joined communiqué, after today’s meeting between Christofias and Talat, will be proved detrimental to the future of re-unification of Cyprus, and to the historical rights of the Greek Cypriot community in the northern part of our country! It is a disaster! No matter what will be said about this meeting and the joined communiqué, the damage is tremendous, and history will prove me right! I have no hope to any re-reunification solution! Unfortunately my fears about Christofias are proved to have been justified! He has proven himself inferior to his undertaken position and role!

``They reaffirmed their commitment for a bizonal bicommunal federation with political equality, as defined by relevant Security Council resolutions. This partnership will have a federal government with a single international personality, as well as a Turkish Cypriot constituent state and a Greek Cypriot constituent state which will be of equal status,``

http://www.cna.org.cy/website/english/a ... 2.asp?id=1

Christofias did not "bother" securing that this "partnership" will be on the basis of the two communities, as such, instead of the two states! He further did not "bother" securing that this "partnership" is not an entirely new partnership but a re-development of the existing 1960 bi-communal RoC partnership! He did not bother seeking a definition of what the adjectives "Turkish Cypriot" and "Greek Cypriot" states should imply, living in this way the cultural and political rights of the members of the Greek Cypriot in the north under jeopardy and potential eradication! He even accepted the use of the term "constituent" states, instead of "component" states; allowing in this way the Turkish side to claim and insist that the two states will be the constituents (will constitute) the central government, instead of being mere components of a one and single federal nation-state! He accepted the same philosophy of the rejected by the 76% of the GCs Anan plan 5! What a shame!

PS: And before some idiots will tell me that I did not comment on the closure for a “single international personality,” I say before hand that this is nonsense! It means nothing! It is just like saying that the EU has a one single international personality, or that the UN as an organization has one single international personality! It is meaningless, because if under the veil of this “single international personality,” two separate entities may function and regulate the everyday life of the people (citizens) of this country in separatist and apartheid ways, and under prejudicing constitutions and laws (as the case seems to be,) this is what counts to the individual citizens, and not if the international personality of such a monstrosity will be single or multiple!

Kifeas,

I would not jump to conclusions just yet. Now, it may be as you think it is, but then again, it may not be.

It is possible that Christofias has said that he was committed to a solution just as you described, but what has he asked in return, i.e., no guarantors , all refugees must return back to their properties, all settlers must return back to Turkey, the GC's will be allowed to vote in the north, and so on. No doubt these demands will be rejected by Turkey and then we are back to square one.

Personally I'll wait for the final version of any agreements before getting too exited.

This is a dark and sad day for all Greeks, Poor Kikapu

[unitedwestand]

All they have managed to accomplish today is to jump many steps closer to the failure of the current negotiations because Christofias alone cannot decide anything for Cyprus… it’s her people that will have the final say.

Start rallying for war now GR its time to ATTACK, ATTACK, ATTACK.

Long live common sense and common decency. I think I like Christofias. He has my vote of confidence.

[unitedwestand]

It just says they "reaffirmed their commitment" ..... isn't that just political speak for continuing the talks ... and no more?

He can't just give away political equality without at least a referendum, surely?

Any chance you could spell this out in layman speak ... and perhaps what reaction there should be to this if it is as bad as you say?

What are you talking about, Oracle? Can you quote what you are talking about, and then tell me what relation does it have with the above?

You get the leaders you derserve. The Cypriots voted for this disaster and I have been fearing this man for quite a while, but kept quiet as everyone deserves a chance.

On a brighter note, do not fear DT as a referendum will have to be held, and if he is indeed going to try and sell us out, then you can vote against the betrayal at the referendum.

Forget it Paphitis, forget it! The game is over! We can not afford to go to another referendum in which we will have to say no! The game is over, and this due to the incompetence of Christofias! I understand Chritosias English to be very poor, but what about this idiot “advisor” George Iacovou, that was with him? The game is over Paphitis!

Deep breaths Kifeas, iiiiiiiiiiiiiiin ouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut iiiiiiiiiiinnnnn ouuuuuuuuuuuuuttttttttt, don't want you suffering a heart attack at this young age. Go to the gym and build your muscles, the balance of power will change if GR and Piratis join you. 3 Greek Rambos

[Oracle]

Don't get too excited Turks.... Kifeas and the rest of us Cypriots will have the last laugh ...

Kifeas has strung you all along .... you are just hopeful puppets, waiting desperately for bad news about the RoC ..... thus proving once and for all what traitors you all are ...

You ain't getting anything more out of us ... no territory, and no recognition ... just a big kick ... in the most Diplomatic way possible ... 'cos we are "Greeks" after all

[unitedwestand]

Don't get too excited Turks.... Kifeas and the rest of us Cypriots will have the last laugh ...
Kifeas has strung you all along .... you are just hopeful puppets, waiting desperately for bad news about the RoC ..... thus proving once and for all what traitors you all are ...

You ain't getting anything more out of us ... no territory, and no recognition ... just a big kick ... in the most Diplomatic way possible ... 'cos we are "Greeks" after all

So what are we? I agree us Cypriots will indeed have the last laugh

[Viewpoint]

Christofias gave in!

Today it should be marked as a dark day in the annals of the Greek Cypriot community! Christofias, knowingly or unknowingly - intentionally or unintentionally, has given in to the Turkish demands for the dissolution of the RoC and the via “virgin-birth” establishment of a new entity which will be based on the partnership of two separate and ethnically based and owned entities! Not only he gave up the sovereignty of the RoC, by recognizing sovereignty to the “TRNC,” as a constituent partner of the new “federal” entity, but he also gave up the RoC as an entity -in its entireness, and accepted its devaluation to a Greek Cypriot constituent state!

The following line in the joined communiqué, after today’s meeting between Christofias and Talat, will be proved detrimental to the future of re-unification of Cyprus, and to the historical rights of the Greek Cypriot community in the northern part of our country! It is a disaster! No matter what will be said about this meeting and the joined communiqué, the damage is tremendous, and history will prove me right! I have no hope to any re-reunification solution! Unfortunately my fears about Christofias are proved to have been justified! He has proven himself inferior to his undertaken position and role!

``They reaffirmed their commitment for a bizonal bicommunal federation with political equality, as defined by relevant Security Council resolutions. This partnership will have a federal government with a single international personality, as well as a Turkish Cypriot constituent state and a Greek Cypriot constituent state which will be of equal status,``

http://www.cna.org.cy/website/english/a ... 2.asp?id=1

Christofias did not "bother" securing that this "partnership" will be on the basis of the two communities, as such, instead of the two states! He further did not "bother" securing that this "partnership" is not an entirely new partnership but a re-development of the existing 1960 bi-communal RoC partnership! He did not bother seeking a definition of what the adjectives "Turkish Cypriot" and "Greek Cypriot" states should imply, living in this way the cultural and political rights of the members of the Greek Cypriot in the north under jeopardy and potential eradication! He even accepted the use of the term "constituent" states, instead of "component" states; allowing in this way the Turkish side to claim and insist that the two states will be the constituents (will constitute) the central government, instead of being mere components of a one and single federal nation-state! He accepted the same philosophy of the rejected by the 76% of the GCs Anan plan 5! What a shame!

PS: And before some idiots will tell me that I did not comment on the closure for a “single international personality,” I say before hand that this is nonsense! It means nothing! It is just like saying that the EU has a one single international personality, or that the UN as an organization has one single international personality! It is meaningless, because if under the veil of this “single international personality,” two separate entities may function and regulate the everyday life of the people (citizens) of this country in separatist and apartheid ways, and under prejudicing constitutions and laws (as the case seems to be,) this is what counts to the individual citizens, and not if the international personality of such a monstrosity will be single or multiple!

Whats your source? any links?