Cyprus-Forum.com

[Bananiot]

Spot on Birkibrisli. EOKA was a Greek Cypriot, extreme right wing movement that did not embrace the Cypriots in their totality. In fact, in one of its very first declarations it called for AKEL and the Turkish Cypriots to stay out of it, or accept the consequences. AKEL could have answered in kind but did a very patriotic thing and endured the murder of so many of its members in order to avoid a civil war.

Our resident psychologist talks rubbish, as usual. Since when does rationality needs to be explained? Especially in the manner GR attempts to do so.

[Get Real!]

Spot on Birkibrisli. EOKA was a Greek Cypriot, extreme right wing movement that did not embrace the Cypriots in their totality. In fact, in one of its very first declarations it called for AKEL and the Turkish Cypriots to stay out of it, or accept the consequences.

Not a single organization in the entire history of mankind has ever attained an admirable 100% support Bananiot, but you may recall that Makarios did pretty well with a 96% at one time…

AKEL could have answered in kind but did a very patriotic thing and endured the murder of so many of its members in order to avoid a civil war.

You give the communists too much credit…you may have missed that we recently discovered that it was AKEL that first sent a petition to the UN Security Council in 1949 denouncing British rule and demanding ENOSIS and when that was rejected they were at the forefront of the botched 1950 plebiscite. You can read Talisker’s findings here…

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/cyprus17441-100.html

Our resident psychologist talks rubbish, as usual. Since when does rationality needs to be explained? Especially in the manner GR attempts to do so.

Brace yourself Bananiot, because YOUR rationality is also subject to the law of relativity. (Notice how in this rare case I need not use inverted commas around the magic word)

[BirKibrisli]

Bir, Cypriots always had a high moral ground because what we fought for was nothing but our rights, and we have always been seen as a rubble to be used and manipulated at will by those that occupied us.

The struggle for independence should have been political, a passive resistance,organised by both communities acting as one people

The 80% of people that supported the Cypriot rebellion was bigger than most other revolutions in the world. If you look at all revolutions you will see that there are always some groups of people who do not support the revolution (e.g. Loyalists in the USA). Such thing as a 100% support for a revolution is something that would be impossible to achieve, and not something that diminishes in any way our struggle.

No matter what way we choose to fight, it would be inevitable that the British would use their divide and rule tactics against us. They would again offer some "independence" that TCs would get much more power than what proportionately belongs to them, and any unity would go out of the window. Take India as an example, where their anti-colonial struggle was probably the most peaceful in the world. Did it stop the colonialists from applying their divide and rule? It didn't.

EOKA was our last resort, and if the governments of Greece at the time were not so incompetent then the cause could have been achieved. Cyprus is too small and in a very important region to be allowed to be fully independent.

I guess it is easy to speak with hindsight,dear Piratis,as we are doing...
But we should've foreseen what the British would try, and take precautions...It was obvious they would divide us along ethnic lines,and we fell for it,somewhat willingly it seems now...Perhaps it was our great misfortune that Makarios was a political as well as a religious leader...He had little chance of inspiring confidence in the TCs...And once Grivas arrived,the writing was on the wall...We were also unlucky Denktash arrived on the scene when he did..Dr Kuchuk was much more open to embracing the GCs I believe...That is why he had to go...Pity,we allowed ourselves to be made fools of...And we are still at it with all this war-talk now...Our best chance of a just solution is still in inspiring trust and confidence in each other,and embracing each other as one people,one nation...But I guess it is too late now with the settlers outnumbering the TCs 3 to 1...Make no mistake about it,it is as bad as that and possibly worse...

[BirKibrisli]

Spot on Birkibrisli. EOKA was a Greek Cypriot, extreme right wing movement that did not embrace the Cypriots in their totality. In fact, in one of its very first declarations it called for AKEL and the Turkish Cypriots to stay out of it, or accept the consequences. AKEL could have answered in kind but did a very patriotic thing and endured the murder of so many of its members in order to avoid a civil war.

Our resident psychologist talks rubbish, as usual. Since when does rationality needs to be explained? Especially in the manner GR attempts to do so.

We are of the same age,Bananiot,and grew up in the 50s...As a child of 5-6-7 etc I was petrified of the EOKA. Sure certain people made sure the danger was greatly exaggerated,but if there were no EOKA there would've been no need for us to be so scared of our lives that we would welcome the devil with open arms...It mattered little that 80% of Cypriots wanted Enosis...What really mattered was that the 20 % that didn't were all TCs...The fault line was there from the beginning,and those who failed to see it and take precautions failed us in a big way,there is no doubt about that. But they had a valid excuse in a sense...The didn't have the benefit of hindsight...What excuse do we have now??????

[observer]

Bananiot said:

"As a result we paid a massive price for our incompetence and in the process waved the dream of enosis goodbye. For ever!"

Well, you can say that the situation in north Cyprus is a version of Enosis.

And ultimately the south has one last arrow in its quiver, which is union with Greece should the situation demand it. So the idea is not lost forever.

The problem is not Enosis or not, the problem is whether we take ourselves seriously as a STATE. We never did. Both communities regarded an independent Cyprus as a bit of a joke and looked to the two motherlands for inspiration. Since 1974 the GC side has matured, when it realised that the motherland had a totally different interpretation of Enosis than was in the minds of GCs. The TCs are still in a time warp convinced that without the deadly embrace of Turkey they cannot exist.

We never took ourselves seriously, and consequently nor did others, precisely because we never had full self-determination.

When Makarios tried to address that and lead us towards fuller self-determination, he was thwarted, and the TCs ran in to the arms of Turkey ... the ultimate "back to the womb" ... where they have stayed ever since, as far removed from self-determination as possible.

TCs and GCs clearly want different solutions .....

Er ... not quite. When Makarios tried to steer towards self determination the GCs staged a coup and he had to be resued by a British helicopter and flee Cyprus.

When did the GCs stage a"coup" observer ? ... do enlighten me on that new version of the old chestnut ...

You will find that somewhere in-between, were revealed the outright plans for partition of the island by Turkey and perhaps this "Junta-inspired-coup" was a pre-emptive strike to that!

Even for you this is really odd.

When did the GCs stage a"coup" observer ? ... do enlighten me on that new version of the old chestnut ...

Hundreds of references but the UNIFCYP one http://www.unficyp.org/nqcontent.cfm?a_ ... ic&lang=l1 is as good as any:
15 July 1974 - The National Guard, under the direction of Greek officers, stages a coup d’état against the Cyprus Government.

The National Guard were GCs weren't they?

You will find that somewhere in-between, were revealed the outright plans for partition of the island by Turkey and perhaps this "Junta-inspired-coup" was a pre-emptive strike to that!

Ah ... you've remembered there was a coup. And the CGs ran in to the arms of Greece ... the ultimate "back to the womb", to use your own phrase, to stop Turkey partitioning the island. I'm not aware of this excuse having been used by any other GC before, but I will treasure it so that I can have a good chuckle whenever life gets me down.

[Oracle]

Bananiot said:

"As a result we paid a massive price for our incompetence and in the process waved the dream of enosis goodbye. For ever!"

Well, you can say that the situation in north Cyprus is a version of Enosis.

And ultimately the south has one last arrow in its quiver, which is union with Greece should the situation demand it. So the idea is not lost forever.

The problem is not Enosis or not, the problem is whether we take ourselves seriously as a STATE. We never did. Both communities regarded an independent Cyprus as a bit of a joke and looked to the two motherlands for inspiration. Since 1974 the GC side has matured, when it realised that the motherland had a totally different interpretation of Enosis than was in the minds of GCs. The TCs are still in a time warp convinced that without the deadly embrace of Turkey they cannot exist.

We never took ourselves seriously, and consequently nor did others, precisely because we never had full self-determination.

When Makarios tried to address that and lead us towards fuller self-determination, he was thwarted, and the TCs ran in to the arms of Turkey ... the ultimate "back to the womb" ... where they have stayed ever since, as far removed from self-determination as possible.

TCs and GCs clearly want different solutions .....

Er ... not quite. When Makarios tried to steer towards self determination the GCs staged a coup and he had to be resued by a British helicopter and flee Cyprus.

When did the GCs stage a"coup" observer ? ... do enlighten me on that new version of the old chestnut ...

You will find that somewhere in-between, were revealed the outright plans for partition of the island by Turkey and perhaps this "Junta-inspired-coup" was a pre-emptive strike to that!

Even for you this is really odd.

When did the GCs stage a"coup" observer ? ... do enlighten me on that new version of the old chestnut ...

Hundreds of references but the UNIFCYP one http://www.unficyp.org/nqcontent.cfm?a_ ... ic&lang=l1 is as good as any:
15 July 1974 - The National Guard, under the direction of Greek officers, stages a coup d’état against the Cyprus Government.

The National Guard were GCs weren't they?

You will find that somewhere in-between, were revealed the outright plans for partition of the island by Turkey and perhaps this "Junta-inspired-coup" was a pre-emptive strike to that!

Ah ... you've remembered there was a coup. And the CGs ran in to the arms of Greece ... the ultimate "back to the womb", to use your own phrase, to stop Turkey partitioning the island. I'm not aware of this excuse having been used by any other GC before, but I will treasure it so that I can have a good chuckle whenever life gets me down.

Again ..... when did the GCs STAGE a coup?

[repulsewarrior]

sorry for double post.

good answer will be from Greek Cypriy writer

"Our Haunted Country"
by Makarios Droushiotis

Over 200 Greek Cypriots have been accused of treason and executed by EOKA. At least 1000 families bear the stain of treason without substantiation, without a shred of evidence. Those who have tried to obtain information from the fighters' organisations faced an impenetrable wall: "They don't know, they won't reply." Those who by themselves investigated the motives of the killings usually come to other conclusions, which have nothing at all to do with treason. In August 1958 EOKA indiscriminately killed Turkish Cypriots and TMT Greeks. In total, 115 Cypriots (60 Greeks and 55 Turks, tit for tat) were killed in bicommunal clashes. The victims' only "sin" was their ethnicity.

There is always other side of the coin .................

...i suppose what you are saying halil, is that these murderers on both sides, murdered for their own reasons , like land and money.

Simply put, they were persons with crimainal motives, which found their outlet in fighting as guerrillas, with the attention, inviting their penchant toward violence through warfare.

The hatred which had a political end is truly a manipulation of class, where, there was a chance for power for a few, who chose to make their expressions, of violence, in uniting themselves with the interlocutors, giving them an exclusivity within their societies, in support of a debate which divided them as adversaries.

Our fear is in Individuals like these. Their Person is of no importance, except in their Ignorance, as it was in their motive, greed.

[repulsewarrior]

Maybe GC is not Greek Cypriot, in my mind not unlike TC which is not the same as Turkish Cypriot.
(in answer to Oracle's question)