Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

With Bananiot I would be happy "imposing" a unitary state with one man one vote, is that also undemocratic? You are unable to see the colours because you are coloured blind, the type of solution we want is moulded by people like you, thats why we want a BBF with political equality.

So with "people like me" which are the people who demand democracy and human rights, you will not accept democracy, but if all people were like Bannaiot, who accepts all your unfair and undemocratic demands, then you would scrap your demands and accept democracy?

If it was like that, then in 1950, long before the EOKA straggle started, when the Greek Cypriots had asked from the British for a democratic referendum in order for Cypriots to decide peacefully the destiny of their own island, why you didn't accept it?

The conflicts started exactly because you and the British would not accept democracy for Cyprus, but you wanted to continue to impose your rule by force.

[Magnus]

I think it's important that we take into consideration the fact that not everyone who claimed to be in EOKA actually was. There were a lot of jumped up little squirts running around 'playing EOKA' and using it as an excuse to settle their personal vendettas. Some of them even claimed to be a part of EOKA in order to gain some sort of dominance in their villages or take advantage of the other villagers.

The problem with this is that there were alot of people killed (both Greek and Turkish Cypriots) and it all fell under the EOKA banner, but in actual fact had nothing to do with Grivas, Makarios or anyone in the 'real' EOKA movement.

I'm not trying to cover anything up, I'm just saying that there are always people trying to make a profit in war. Those Turkish Cypriots that were mentioned in an earlier post may have been killed, but it's difficult to prove that it was the genuine EOKA that did it. It could have been anyone, even other Turkish Cypriots.

There are also cases of people getting 'caught in the crossfire'. You can say 'the Greeks killed him' but if there was a fire fight going on between EOKA and the British then surely both sides are to blame for anyone killed in the crossfire?

I also agree with the earlier posts about people who were working with the British. If someone joins your enemy then they become your enemy too, regardless of their ethnic descent. EOKA decreed that Turkish Cypriots were not to be harmed but they were talking about civilians. If anyone (GC or TC) signed up to help the British fight EOKA then they became viable targets.

Obviously this is why we need credible evidence for every single case, just as Get Real! has stated, and you're not going to find that in political propaganda.

[BirKibrisli]

Bananiot is a wise man...What he says makes perfect sense to me..

It is beyond question ,as far as I am concerned, that Enosis was a legitmate wish for GCs back in the 50s...But given all that happened,and given where we find ourselves today,can we not agree with Bananiot that the EOKA went about it in the wrong way????With hindsight,can we really argue against that????

[Oracle]

Bananiot is a wise man...What he says makes perfect sense to me..

It is beyond question ,as far as I am concerned, that Enosis was a legitmate wish for GCs back in the 50s...But given all that happened,and given where we find ourselves today,can we not agree with Bananiot that the EOKA went about it in the wrong way????With hindsight,can we really argue against that????

We can go the whole way and admit all our predecessors went about it the wrong way, including TMT and even the TCs for aiding and abetting Turkey to divide our island and keep us under occupation all this time ... a continuing wrong IMHO ..... not just a past wrong!

[Bananiot]

Thanks Birkibrisli, that is exactly what I meant. The left (which included Greek and Turkish Cypriots) foresaw the dangers of EOKA but who is to argue against the wishes of the super patriots that brandished the gun?

[Oracle]

I am sure they are so glad they risked their lives so that ungrateful sods like you can sit on your pedestal and condemn them with the mighty benefit of your superior hindsight ...

[Piratis]

By 1955 when the EOKA struggle started most other colonies had gained their self-determination. The British had clearly stated that they would not allow such thing to happen to Cyprus because doing so was against their interests.

So those that say that the EOKA way, was the wrong way, then why don't they tell us what would be the "right way". We had tried many other ways, but everything was denied to us and an armed struggle was our last resort. If they know of a way to make the British or the Turks not to act according to their interests and allow self-determination to Cyprus, then they should let us know so we can use those magical ways today.

The fact is that the British didn't have a problem with our "way" they had a problem with our aim and they would act in the exact same way to defeat our aim, regardless of the ways we tried to achieve it.

[Get Real!]

Thanks Birkibrisli, that is exactly what I meant. The left (which included Greek and Turkish Cypriots) foresaw the dangers of EOKA but who is to argue against the wishes of the super patriots that brandished the gun?

Bananiot’s problem is not Cyprus politics but his strong psychological need to undermine, belittle, and humiliate the Greek Cypriot people whom he obviously has no respect for, and in stark contrast to his heightened sense of admiration and respect for countries with a strong global standing like the US and the UK, where he received his “enlightenment” or education.

These are typical characteristics of many Cypriots who undertook tertiary study abroad in the 50s and 60s, mostly in the UK and the US, at a time when most of their compatriots hadn’t even completed high school, so their sense of superiority to the “common folk” was well established early on in their lives, and needless to mention that they were always pro-British and thus very resentful of the 1960 culmination.

Your freebie psychoanalysis from unkie GR…

[BirKibrisli]

By 1955 when the EOKA struggle started most other colonies had gained their self-determination. The British had clearly stated that they would not allow such thing to happen to Cyprus because doing so was against their interests.

So those that say that the EOKA way, was the wrong way, then why don't they tell us what would be the "right way". We had tried many other ways, but everything was denied to us and an armed struggle was our last resort. If they know of a way to make the British or the Turks not to act according to their interests and allow self-determination to Cyprus, then they should let us know so we can use those magical ways today.

The fact is that the British didn't have a problem with our "way" they had a problem with our aim and they would act in the exact same way to defeat our aim, regardless of the ways we tried to achieve it.

Piratis,Cyprus had historical circumstances, which you know well, that made an armed struggle by members of only one community bound to fail miserably...If EOKA had not invented themselves,the British would have established it themselves...In fact there are people who argue that EOKA was the creation of the Americans,but that is not our subject here...

I strongly believe the British could've crushed EOKA at the beginning had they so chosen. But they needed it to justify the establishing of the TMT,to stop the Cypriots from uniting and becoming One independent nation...
The struggle for independence should have been political, a passive resistance,organised by both communities acting as one people...It might've taken longer,but the result would've been much different to what we have today...The moment the guns spoke Cyprus was lost to her people...Cypriots lost the high moral ground,they became another ungrateful rubble in the eyes of Western powers,to be manipulated and used at will...

[Piratis]

Bir, Cypriots always had a high moral ground because what we fought for was nothing but our rights, and we have always been seen as a rubble to be used and manipulated at will by those that occupied us.

The struggle for independence should have been political, a passive resistance,organised by both communities acting as one people

The 80% of people that supported the Cypriot rebellion was bigger than most other revolutions in the world. If you look at all revolutions you will see that there are always some groups of people who do not support the revolution (e.g. Loyalists in the USA). Such thing as a 100% support for a revolution is something that would be impossible to achieve, and not something that diminishes in any way our struggle.

No matter what way we choose to fight, it would be inevitable that the British would use their divide and rule tactics against us. They would again offer some "independence" that TCs would get much more power than what proportionately belongs to them, and any unity would go out of the window. Take India as an example, where their anti-colonial struggle was probably the most peaceful in the world. Did it stop the colonialists from applying their divide and rule? It didn't.

EOKA was our last resort, and if the governments of Greece at the time were not so incompetent then the cause could have been achieved. Cyprus is too small and in a very important region to be allowed to be fully independent.