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The 12th June 1958 - The FIRST inter-communal slayings...

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Get Real! » Wed May 21, 2008 10:57 pm

Oracle wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
Oracle wrote:
iceman wrote:Stop playing the stupid Stella..
You know damn well what he meant...
"In August 1958 EOKA indiscriminately killed Turkish Cypriots and TMT (killed) Greeks"


.... So the TMT killed Greeks ... (why brackets, was the killing less painful?). Were those also indiscriminate or was it only EOKA that killed "indiscriminately"?

..... Did the TMT also kill Greek Cypriots or just Greeks?

Iceman ASSUMES that's what the author meant but of course we will never know with such poor writing skills. Anyway, Makarios' articles are not worth the paper they're written on so let's not waste anymore time on this fool.


Which fool?

GR! .... Would you please answer my previous post to you (page 2)?

The fool = MD

Your question is irrelevant right now so can we do this another time?
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Postby Kifeas » Wed May 21, 2008 11:02 pm

iceman wrote:
Oracle wrote:
iceman wrote:Stop playing the stupid Stella..
You know damn well what he meant...
"In August 1958 EOKA indiscriminately killed Turkish Cypriots and TMT (killed) Greeks"


.... So the TMT killed Greeks ... (why brackets, was the killing less painful?). Were those also indiscriminate or was it only EOKA that killed "indiscriminately"?

..... Did the TMT also kill Greek Cypriots or just Greeks?


Lets get one thing clear here...
I condemn TMT killing Greek Cypriots just as i condemn EOKA killing Turkish Cypriots....
But at least have the decency to accept the fact,you lot started the killings for your "cause"


No Iceman, I suggest you get your facts straight! It was the TCs that had chosen to take sides in the Eoka vs. British guerilla war, and not just in a passive way but in fact in an active one, by joining the British colonial forces as auxiliary policemen! TC murders by Eoka men were committed after TCs had joined the ranks of the British, and were mainly directed against those people that were identified to have been such auxiliary police members or collaborators, without excluding the possibility that mistakes may have happened!
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Postby Oracle » Wed May 21, 2008 11:03 pm

Get Real! wrote:
Oracle wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
Oracle wrote:
iceman wrote:Stop playing the stupid Stella..
You know damn well what he meant...
"In August 1958 EOKA indiscriminately killed Turkish Cypriots and TMT (killed) Greeks"


.... So the TMT killed Greeks ... (why brackets, was the killing less painful?). Were those also indiscriminate or was it only EOKA that killed "indiscriminately"?

..... Did the TMT also kill Greek Cypriots or just Greeks?

Iceman ASSUMES that's what the author meant but of course we will never know with such poor writing skills. Anyway, Makarios' articles are not worth the paper they're written on so let's not waste anymore time on this fool.


Which fool?

GR! .... Would you please answer my previous post to you (page 2)?

The fool = MD

Your question is irrelevant right now so can we do this another time?


Agreed another time; but one step back just prior to the start of "FIRST BLOOD" ... may help confirm who had a vested interest in sabotaging proceedings, and hence lend further weight to who "started it" ....
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Postby iceman » Wed May 21, 2008 11:07 pm

Get Real! wrote:
iceman wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
iceman wrote:
Oracle wrote:
iceman wrote:Stop playing the stupid Stella..
You know damn well what he meant...
"In August 1958 EOKA indiscriminately killed Turkish Cypriots and TMT (killed) Greeks"


.... So the TMT killed Greeks ... (why brackets, was the killing less painful?). Were those also indiscriminate or was it only EOKA that killed "indiscriminately"?

..... Did the TMT also kill Greek Cypriots or just Greeks?


Lets get one thing clear here...
I condemn TMT killing Greek Cypriots just as i condemn EOKA killing Turkish Cypriots....
But at least have the decency to accept the fact,you lot started the killings for your "cause"

EOKA specifically circulated an order early on that no Turkish Cypriot be killed or harmed.


so,are you saying the TC casualties were mistakes? Or was your EOKA henchmen disobeying orders?

I'm saying that EOKA started attacking the British colonialists and specifically requested their fighters not to engage with or harm TCs, but at some stage TC auxiliary police had to be dealt with for attacking EOKA.


But those people were not all auxilary police...Majority in those lists were civilian..
I wish there was an English version of that page so you could read who they were and how they died...clicking each photo gives the details.
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Postby Get Real! » Wed May 21, 2008 11:23 pm

iceman wrote:
Get Real! wrote:I'm saying that EOKA started attacking the British colonialists and specifically requested their fighters not to engage with or harm TCs, but at some stage TC auxiliary police had to be dealt with for attacking EOKA.

But those people were not all auxilary police...Majority in those lists were civilian..
I wish there was an English version of that page so you could read who they were and how they died...clicking each photo gives the details.

Iceman. I'm afraid I cannot accept that as CREDIBLE EVIDENCE as it is presented by a Turkish/TC website and in a language I cannot understand to investigate.
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Postby Kifeas » Wed May 21, 2008 11:44 pm

Get Real! wrote:
iceman wrote:
Get Real! wrote:I'm saying that EOKA started attacking the British colonialists and specifically requested their fighters not to engage with or harm TCs, but at some stage TC auxiliary police had to be dealt with for attacking EOKA.

But those people were not all auxilary police...Majority in those lists were civilian..
I wish there was an English version of that page so you could read who they were and how they died...clicking each photo gives the details.

Iceman. I'm afraid I cannot accept that as CREDIBLE EVIDENCE as it is presented by a Turkish/TC website and in a language I cannot understand to investigate.


Get Real, is it impossible that some of these people were murdered, without necessarily having had to do with them being associated with the British, as it was also the case with many GCs! In those days’ conditions, everything and anything would have been possible, including deliberate murders even for motives beyond those associated with the Eoka campaign but merely for personal or other differences, as well as out of chauvinist ones! I mean, what are we trying to discuss here now? Whether it was the chicken first, or the egg?
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Postby Get Real! » Thu May 22, 2008 12:13 am

Kifeas wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
iceman wrote:
Get Real! wrote:I'm saying that EOKA started attacking the British colonialists and specifically requested their fighters not to engage with or harm TCs, but at some stage TC auxiliary police had to be dealt with for attacking EOKA.

But those people were not all auxilary police...Majority in those lists were civilian..
I wish there was an English version of that page so you could read who they were and how they died...clicking each photo gives the details.

Iceman. I'm afraid I cannot accept that as CREDIBLE EVIDENCE as it is presented by a Turkish/TC website and in a language I cannot understand to investigate.


Get Real, is it impossible that some of these people were murdered, without necessarily having had to do with them being associated with the British, as it was also the case with many GCs! In those days’ conditions, everything and anything would have been possible, including deliberate murders even for motives beyond those associated with the Eoka campaign but merely for personal or other differences, as well as out of chauvinist ones! I mean, what are we trying to discuss here now? Whether it was the chicken first, or the egg?

Anything is possible! Some TCs were murdered by the British, some TCs by TMT, some for the reasons you gave, and some TCs by GCs, so it’s anybody’s guess who killed the ones presented by Iceman because we can’t possibly accept what that particular website may be claiming because we know as sure as hell that they would never admit to anything not in their interests hence my message to all is… CREDIBLE SOURCES PLEASE.
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Postby Get Real! » Thu May 22, 2008 12:33 am

FROM:

EUROPE & COLD WAR DATABASE
Cyprus, 1955-1973
By Tom Cooper
Oct 26, 2003, 14:13

Trouble began to develop in late 1954, with the arrival of British forces – including the HQ Middle East Command – evacuated from Egypt (thereby turning a “colonial backwater” into a major military strategic base for a foreign power), a British ministerial statement that Cyprus would never be granted independence, and the refusal of the United Nations to consider the Cyprus question. Fierce anti-British riots erupted in March 1955, during the court hearings into a ship caught smuggling arms from Greece to Cyprus. On 1 April 1955 a bombing campaign started with attacks on government buildings at Larnaca, Limassol and Nicosia. After further attacks in the autumn, in which policemen and servicemen were killed, Field Marshal Sir John Harding arrived as Governor, declaring a state of emergency, on 27 November 1955. At that time EOKA sought to gain control over the Greek Cyprus community, harness world opinion and wear down the British until they tired of the struggle. The methods which EOKA used to achieve these aims were a skilful blend of propaganda and military action. On the civil front there were riots, disturbances, boycotts, civil disobedience and strikes. On the military side EOKA fought both an urban and a rural campaign, starting with no more than 100 fighters.

The overall strategy employed by the EOKA insurgents was less strictly military than political: they aimed to mobilise domestic opinion and organise it in a manner that would make government impossible. At the same time they applied gradually increasing pressure through selective paramilitary action. The main weapon of EOKA insurgents became bombs: the Governor, Lord Harding, survived an attempt on his life when his servant, an EOKA agent, placed a bomb in his bed: it was one of 2.976 bombs placed by Cypriot Greeks that either failed to explode or were discovered and rendered ineffective by the security forces. Further 1.782 bombs did explode and accounted for damage to the value of GBP 10 million.

EOKA never expected to achieve a military victory over the British: it sought to neutralise the administration and police and eliminate the Special Branch, thereby depriving the British of vitally needed intelligence. But, the main EOKA method had to be by gun and bomb, the chief targets being British servicemen and installations. Aside from the British, the insurgents were also aiming to eliminate political opponents and manipulate the local population for economic and physical confrontations with the authorities. Violence – mainly in form of sniping and street murder, arson, sabotage and bombings, as well as hit-and-run attacks on isolated police stations and patrols – was the critical element in presenting the insurgent case to the outside world.


http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/printer_454.shtml

Does anyone see any mention of EOKA attacking Turkish Cypriots?
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Postby bilako22 » Thu May 22, 2008 12:47 am

Get Real! wrote:
iceman wrote:
Get Real! wrote:I'm saying that EOKA started attacking the British colonialists and specifically requested their fighters not to engage with or harm TCs, but at some stage TC auxiliary police had to be dealt with for attacking EOKA.

But those people were not all auxilary police...Majority in those lists were civilian..
I wish there was an English version of that page so you could read who they were and how they died...clicking each photo gives the details.

Iceman. I'm afraid I cannot accept that as CREDIBLE EVIDENCE as it is presented by a Turkish/TC website and in a language I cannot understand to investigate.


Of course you cannot . What is credible evidence? Why should we agree that any of your usual so-called evidence is credible ? We can all refuse to accept that any evidence that is presented is not credible.
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Postby boomerang » Thu May 22, 2008 1:13 am

halil wrote:iceman,
they can not mislead the UN documents and archives of the other nations .


You mean like the Armenian genocide?
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