Cyprus-Forum.com

[Saint Jimmy]

Jimmy, first of all overwhelming majority of TC community does not want to be a minority in a GC state. Moreover they don't believe that TC community is a minority in Cyprus because just a 100 years ago TCs were the governors of Cyprus and they governed Cyprus for 400 years. Now you guess how would TC community feel itself as a minority in a GC state. They would resist and fight not to live as a minority in a GC state. TCs in their history, have never been a minority, have never been governed by GCs

So this all just comes down to pride

Well, yeah, I guess what I was getting at is the point Main_Source is making here (only without the inflammatory language).

Insan, I already know what you've told me - namely, that TCs will oppose any attempt to degrade them to minority status. I know it as a fact, but what I was after was the rationale behind it. Why is the TC community so afraid of such a situation? Would they be afraid of a new '60s? Or is it just a case of 'national' pride? Because, from what you said, that's what I'm getting, as you haven't given me any valid fears.

In other words, it's like me not allowing my neighbor to build a two-floor house, just because I never had that big a house.
I guess what I'm looking for is a statement such as 'I won't allow my neighbor to have a two-floor house because then his house would block the sun from my house'.

Is it any clearer now?

[Main_Source]

Insan is not thinking in terms of fundamental human rights or being rational...he thinks in the form of the Greeks getting one over on the Turks.

[erolz]

Insan, I already know what you've told me - namely, that TCs will oppose any attempt to degrade them to minority status. I know it as a fact, but what I was after was the rationale behind it. Why is the TC community so afraid of such a situation? Would they be afraid of a new '60s? Or is it just a case of 'national' pride? Because, from what you said, that's what I'm getting, as you haven't given me any valid fears.

The TC demand for political equality in Cyprus is not just an issue of 'fear' - though that certainly plays a part and we historicaly have good reason to fear GC political dominance of Cyprus. It is also a matter of human rights. We have a right, as far as I am concerned, to not have our future as a community in our own homeland decided by a group other than ourselves.

Would you not have a fear of being a political minority in Cyprus under total effective control of TC? Would you be happy for Cyprus to still be part of the UK or Turkey - even if you had totaly equality and rights as an indivdual as any other UK citizen or Turkish citizen? Would you opposition to such be based soley on 'national' pride? Or fear? Or because you do not think it is right?

[metecyp]

I know it as a fact, but what I was after was the rationale behind it. Why is the TC community so afraid of such a situation? Would they be afraid of a new '60s? Or is it just a case of 'national' pride? Because, from what you said, that's what I'm getting, as you haven't given me any valid fears.

Here's what I think. The safeguards provided to TCs in 1960 agreements proved to be insufficient to ensure that TCs are guaranteed to participate in the decision-making. I hope this is obvious after 40 years of exclusion of TCs from the decision-making. Furthermore, 1960 agreements provided no security for TCs between 1963-1974. So why would a TC believe that anything less than 1960 agreements, like a minority status, will provide the extra assurance and security needed?? You might say the fact that Cyprus is part of the EU is a big assurance. I partly agree with that but I can't help to remember what happenned in Bosnia and Kosovo in the middle of Europe just a few years ago.

Secondly, TCs and GCs are two seperate communities no matter what anyone says. Our goal is to create one single Cypriot nationality but we're far from that ideal and there are 2 communities with different perceptions as we stand today. It's only natural that there will be times where communities don't agree on certain matters. For example, the perceptions of EOKA by GCs and TCs are very different. What if GC senators want to keep celebrating the anniversary of EOKA's establishment? You wouldn't find 1 TC who would agree with this. Is there a mechanism to stop this in a united Cyprus if TCs are a minority? No.

Thirdly, GCs have an enormous economic power compared to TCs. If we have a unitary state with TC minority, soon enough all the businesses and industry will be owned by GCs. You can't expect a community with no economic power to be taken seriously, can you?

Finally, the heart of the matter is the trust. GCs don't trust TCs and TCs don't trust GCs. We have to learn how to live side-by-side in a bizonal bicommunal federation and gain some trust before jumping into a unitary state. This is the only logical forward way.

[Saint Jimmy]

Erolz and metecyp,

I don't necessarily agree with everything you say, but now I understand better.
(erolz, I took your questions to be rhetorical, and that's why I won't answer them. Point taken, though.)

Thanks.

[MicAtCyp]

....

[MicAtCyp]

You clearly demand return of all refugees.

Of course. Do you have a problem?

You clearly still hate from turkey and demand nullification of treaty of guarantee and treaty of alliance

Ditto

You still claim that TC community is a minority in cyprus and not the politically equal constituent partner of GC community.

Oh, a long time since we last heard the poem. Lets us hear it today some more times boys and girls:

The Gcs want to degrade the 18% minority into a minority status!! The Gcs want to degrade the 18% minority into a minority status!! The Gcs want to degrade the 18% minority into a minority status!!
The Gcs want to degrade the 18% minority into a minority status!!

because just a 100 years ago TCs were the governors of Cyprus and they governed Cyprus for 400 years. Now you guess how would TC community feel itself as a minority in a GC state.

YOUR FEELINGS CAN GO TO HELL...

Overwhelming majority of TC refugees don't think any other alternatives than the exchange of their properties.

I told you a million times the properties they left behind are not enough even to exchange 1/20th. You and the majority of the TCs tend to forget about the remaining 19/20 ths. Are you plain stupid or you pretend you don't understand?

WAs it your right to kick Turkish Cypriots out of Cyprus

Nobody was kicked out. You were 118,000 in 1960, you became 123,000 in 1973! So more of you actually came in.

[metecyp]

YOUR FEELINGS CAN GO TO HELL...

MicAtCyp, why do you even bother being part of this forum? Once I thought you are a reasonable person and we could communicate but the more you post, the more I get convinced that you're just wasting everyone's times including yours by being part of this forum.

It's one thing to present your ideas in a civilized manner for a healthy discussion, it's something completely different to degrade people and call them names because they don't share your views. We heard enough of your ideas on Cyprus problem. There's no point in posting if you're not trying to communicate and this applies to everyone on this forum.

I remember you called insan and I brainwashed once, then you show utter disrespect to TC victims by saying "sing that Atlilar-Murataga-Sandallar" poem and the list goes on....seriously, why are you wasting our times here if you're not trying to communicate?

[Viewpoint]

well done metecyp, at least you have the courage to speak out, this individual is so rude that you cannot communicate with him in a civil fashion, his comments are always belittling and venomous against TCs, it is so obvious that he despises us, a pure reminder of the dark years of the 1960s and the GCs attitude towards our community, just as it was in then not one GC speaks out at him to tone it down. Its attitude like this will keep us dividing for many years to come, maybe thats what his real objective is, I think we should all support each other and not respond to his posts, lets see if both GCs and TCs can unite on this issue and deal with people like MicAtCyp????

[Main_Source]

Oh shut up Viewpoint.