Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

VP, the Turkish army ethnically cleansed 100s of thousands of Greek Cypriots, and you dare call that a "solution"? How about a "solution" that would ethnically cleanse an equal amount of TCs? With such solution we would be again separate, even having a sea separating us, and there would be no conflicts at all.

Would you find this "solution" good as well? Or ethnic cleansing is good as a "solution" only when it is about Turks ethnically cleansing us from our lands that we existed for 1000s of years in order to artificially create some fake Turkish state on them?

TCs and Turkey had partition as their aim since 1950. Democracy could not come exactly because TCs did not accept it. Democracy means one person one vote, and TCs never accepted democracy because they wanted to use the guns of Turkey to steal from us by force way more than what proportionately belongs to them.

[Viewpoint]

The period between 1960 to 1974 was not to Rosy either and does not bode well for what would have happened to us if the TA did not arrive. .

That's not true VP. Had Turkey carried out her Guarantorship duties to the letter of the law that she signed up to do and restored the Cypriot Government after the '74 coup, the country and it's citizens would have prospered many times over than what we have today, as well as many more Cypriots, TC's and GC's would have remained in Cyprus and not fled overseas. What we had in Cyprus for the last 34 years is security and existence and not peace. If we had peace, there wouldn't be any need for today's peace negotiations to take place. Don't confuse security with peace in Cyprus, although it is true to say, that under normal circumstances, peace and security does go hand in hand.

You yourself hit the nail on the head without security there cannot be peace, that's why 1960 to 1974 was hell for us our security was under seize by GCs who were pursuing their dream of enosis. Turkey brought about a form of solution to a situation that had not been corrected for over 11 years, ample time to bring about a democratic and human rights abiding country but that was not the aim of the GCs and subsequently the TCs who were reactive more that proactive in countering with the Taksim ideology.

You refer to Turkeys guarantor rights which exist even today, she came and brought about a peaceful existence for all 1000 times better than the previous mayhem and suffering, you say she should resolve things and leave, can you honestly say has anything been resolved even as we speak the problems have not been resolved and both sides appear to be trying to close the chasm which clearly exists and may never be bridged, so why should she go? just to please the GCs? giving them the free hand they long for? that swing Piratis and his kind talk about? ain't gonna happen it about time people realized that the TA will only leave when a comprehensive solution has been signed and not before.

I was only answering one part of your earlier post, which was "now you cannot deny both dies have existed peaceful and prospered" and not the whole Cyprus problem. I did not even bring up the departure of the Turkish Troops since it was not relevant to what I was responding to. But now that you brought up the security factor, security can also be provided by others and not just by Turkey, but that's another topic for another time. And yes, my family and myself did suffer in the early 60's and it has often been a question in my mind, as to why Turkey, Britain and Greece did not do anything to correct the problems before it got much bigger as time went by, to a point where Greece with the Junta became also part of the problem, and yet Turkey and Britain stood by not doing anything. When Turkey finally did come, she also became part of the problem and not part of a solution. Any open minded person can see how the island of Cyprus was the intent for Greece, Turkey and Britain, and not the Cypriot people themselves. Their actions speak for themselves.

Turkey is still trying to solve the problem, her troops do not stop us from sitting around a table and agreeing a solution its us who are unable to bridge the chasm.

The delay in Turkeys intervention was political and as you know the US stopped her on a few occasions , the coup was the last drop in a long line of problems which culminated in her stepping in to divide the island so that everyone could live with security in their own areas. The GCs had plenty of time to bring the 2 sides together and create one people as so many want to do today, too little too late imo but people who are in the majority want to use this to wipe away the we are the majority we want to rule the whole island, those that swallow this are the ones who will be foreigners in their own country.

[Viewpoint]

VP, the Turkish army ethnically cleansed 100s of thousands of Greek Cypriots, and you dare call that a "solution"? How about a "solution" that would ethnically cleanse an equal amount of TCs? With such solution we would be again separate, even having a sea separating us, and there would be no conflicts at all.

Would you find this "solution" good as well? Or ethnic cleansing is good as a "solution" only when it is about Turks ethnically cleansing us from our lands that we existed for 1000s of years in order to artificially create some fake Turkish state on them?

TCs and Turkey had partition as their aim since 1950. Democracy could not come exactly because TCs did not accept it. Democracy means one person one vote, and TCs never accepted democracy because they wanted to use the guns of Turkey to steal from us by force way more than what proportionately belongs to them.

It was you the majority who wanted to impose your will on the minority against their will, just like whats happening in Turkey today. Should the minority shut up and accept head scarfs, religion being mixed with politics? no they have to stand up and fight for what they believe in. You tried to sell us to Greece we stood up fought for what we believe was right division, not gifting you to Turkey which would you have preferred? when you were faced with discrimination and possible annihilation.

[Piratis]

VP, the Turkish army ethnically cleansed 100s of thousands of Greek Cypriots, and you dare call that a "solution"? How about a "solution" that would ethnically cleanse an equal amount of TCs? With such solution we would be again separate, even having a sea separating us, and there would be no conflicts at all.

Would you find this "solution" good as well? Or ethnic cleansing is good as a "solution" only when it is about Turks ethnically cleansing us from our lands that we existed for 1000s of years in order to artificially create some fake Turkish state on them?

TCs and Turkey had partition as their aim since 1950. Democracy could not come exactly because TCs did not accept it. Democracy means one person one vote, and TCs never accepted democracy because they wanted to use the guns of Turkey to steal from us by force way more than what proportionately belongs to them.

It was you the majority who wanted to impose your will on the minority against their will, just like whats happening in Turkey today. Should the minority shut up and accept head scarfs, religion being mixed with politics? no they have to stand up and fight for what they believe in. You tried to sell us to Greece we stood up fought for what we believe was right division, not gifting you to Turkey which would you have preferred? when you were faced with discrimination and possible annihilation.

VP, do you know what democracy means?

In a democracy minorities have rights, like their human rights, their minority rights, their democratic rights, but if non of those rights are violated then they should accept what the majority decides. Thats why in democracy "Majority Rules".

Otherwise if a minority could just get guns and start killing people whenever they didn't like some democratic choice, then what would be the point of democracy? Why go vote at all then?

Cyprus has been under foreign rulers against the will of the overwhelming majority of the Cypriot people and by imposing their rule over us by force. Somehow it was fine for you for Cyprus to be part of the Ottoman or British empires, but not OK to be part of the Greek state which is what the Cypriots in their overwhelming majority wanted?

[Viewpoint]

VP, the Turkish army ethnically cleansed 100s of thousands of Greek Cypriots, and you dare call that a "solution"? How about a "solution" that would ethnically cleanse an equal amount of TCs? With such solution we would be again separate, even having a sea separating us, and there would be no conflicts at all.

Would you find this "solution" good as well? Or ethnic cleansing is good as a "solution" only when it is about Turks ethnically cleansing us from our lands that we existed for 1000s of years in order to artificially create some fake Turkish state on them?

TCs and Turkey had partition as their aim since 1950. Democracy could not come exactly because TCs did not accept it. Democracy means one person one vote, and TCs never accepted democracy because they wanted to use the guns of Turkey to steal from us by force way more than what proportionately belongs to them.

It was you the majority who wanted to impose your will on the minority against their will, just like whats happening in Turkey today. Should the minority shut up and accept head scarfs, religion being mixed with politics? no they have to stand up and fight for what they believe in. You tried to sell us to Greece we stood up fought for what we believe was right division, not gifting you to Turkey which would you have preferred? when you were faced with discrimination and possible annihilation.

VP, do you know what democracy means?

In a democracy minorities have rights, like their human rights, their minority rights, their democratic rights, but if non of those rights are violated then they should accept what the majority decides. Thats why in democracy "Majority Rules".

Otherwise if a minority could just get guns and start killing people whenever they didn't like some democratic choice, then what would be the point of democracy? Why go vote at all then?

Cyprus has been under foreign rulers against the will of the overwhelming majority of the Cypriot people and by imposing their rule over us by force. Somehow it was fine for you for Cyprus to be part of the Ottoman or British empires, but not OK to be part of the Greek state which is what the Cypriots in their overwhelming majority wanted?

No no no as you always say you dont understand democracy, isnt using democracy and majority rule to the detrrment of others wrong?

[Piratis]

No no no as you always say you dont understand democracy, isnt using democracy and majority rule to the detrrment of others wrong?

Being part of the Greek state instead of the British or Ottoman empires was not against your human or other rights. And I ask you again: How can it be fine for Cyprus to be part of the Ottoman or British empires, but not fine to be part of the Greek state which was the democratic choice of Cypriots themselves?

[boomerang]

VP, the Turkish army ethnically cleansed 100s of thousands of Greek Cypriots, and you dare call that a "solution"? How about a "solution" that would ethnically cleanse an equal amount of TCs? With such solution we would be again separate, even having a sea separating us, and there would be no conflicts at all.

Would you find this "solution" good as well? Or ethnic cleansing is good as a "solution" only when it is about Turks ethnically cleansing us from our lands that we existed for 1000s of years in order to artificially create some fake Turkish state on them?

TCs and Turkey had partition as their aim since 1950. Democracy could not come exactly because TCs did not accept it. Democracy means one person one vote, and TCs never accepted democracy because they wanted to use the guns of Turkey to steal from us by force way more than what proportionately belongs to them.

It was you the majority who wanted to impose your will on the minority against their will, just like whats happening in Turkey today. Should the minority shut up and accept head scarfs, religion being mixed with politics? no they have to stand up and fight for what they believe in. You tried to sell us to Greece we stood up fought for what we believe was right division, not gifting you to Turkey which would you have preferred? when you were faced with discrimination and possible annihilation.

VP, do you know what democracy means?

In a democracy minorities have rights, like their human rights, their minority rights, their democratic rights, but if non of those rights are violated then they should accept what the majority decides. Thats why in democracy "Majority Rules".

Otherwise if a minority could just get guns and start killing people whenever they didn't like some democratic choice, then what would be the point of democracy? Why go vote at all then?

Cyprus has been under foreign rulers against the will of the overwhelming majority of the Cypriot people and by imposing their rule over us by force. Somehow it was fine for you for Cyprus to be part of the Ottoman or British empires, but not OK to be part of the Greek state which is what the Cypriots in their overwhelming majority wanted?

Piradis the minority is trying to impose their will on the majority as we speak in "turkey=fascist state" as we speak and you are aksing VP if he knows what democracy is all about?...ofcource he hasn't got a clue what democracy is all about....

[BirKibrisli]

I was only answering one part of your earlier post, which was "now you cannot deny both dies have existed peaceful and prospered" and not the whole Cyprus problem. I did not even bring up the departure of the Turkish Troops since it was not relevant to what I was responding to. But now that you brought up the security factor, security can also be provided by others and not just by Turkey, but that's another topic for another time. And yes, my family and myself did suffer in the early 60's and it has often been a question in my mind, as to why Turkey, Britain and Greece did not do anything to correct the problems before it got much bigger as time went by, to a point where Greece with the Junta became also part of the problem, and yet Turkey and Britain stood by not doing anything. When Turkey finally did come, she also became part of the problem and not part of a solution. Any open minded person can see how the island of Cyprus was the intent for Greece, Turkey and Britain, and not the Cypriot people themselves. Their actions speak for themselves.

Turkey did not do anything in the 60s,dear Kikapu,simply because the USA did not let her...In 1964 Inonu tried to intervene but was told he didn't have the permission to use the American weapons given to it by NATO for defence purposes...In 1974,the whole thing was orchestrated by the Pentagon...They gave the green light to the Junta in Greece for the Simpson coup,and they gave the green light to Turkey for the following invasion...They simply did not want to risk letting Makarios get any closer to the Soviets or to the Independent Block,at the time...Alexander Graig,the one-time USA Foreign secretary is on the record for reminding Turgut Ozal that Turkey was in Cyprus to protect Nato interests...This was recently reported in most of the TC papers online...While we keep kicking each other here and there and everywhere,the ones who are truly responsible for our sorry state are laughing their heads off...

[Nikitas]

Bir,

Not only they are laughing their heads off, they are getting ahead while we are mired in crap. There was a time when Cyprus was ahead of Greece on nearly every comparison index- standard of living, per capita GDP, telecommunications etc. The lead is either reversed or closing and Turkey is also catching up fast. And Cypriots are still arguing whether there should be a two state solution (two states on an island 150 miles by 60 miles!) and other arcane details. It does take a lot to wake us up.

[BirKibrisli]

Bir,

Not only they are laughing their heads off, they are getting ahead while we are mired in crap. There was a time when Cyprus was ahead of Greece on nearly every comparison index- standard of living, per capita GDP, telecommunications etc. The lead is either reversed or closing and Turkey is also catching up fast. And Cypriots are still arguing whether there should be a two state solution (two states on an island 150 miles by 60 miles!) and other arcane details. It does take a lot to wake us up.

Will we ever wake up,Nikitas????
Or is it just easier to hang onto this hate and bitterness,and keep our heads in the sand???
we hate therefore we exist!!!