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The Turkish Cypriot failure at Buergenstock.

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby boomerang » Wed May 21, 2008 9:10 am

bilako22 wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
bilako22 wrote:He keeps going about some lies concerning 1958 .

I respect your right to remain ignorant but then please quit posting altogether.

The Turkish community was whipped into a frenzy by broadcasts from Turkey calling for the partition of Cyprus. Violence between the turks and Cypriots broke out in early June and climaxed when eight Greeks were massacred in a cornfield near the Turkish village of Geunyeli.


http://www.britains-smallwars.com/cyprus/war.html


On 12 June 1958 eight innocent and unarmed Greek Cypriot civilians from Kondemenos village were murdered by T.M.T. terrorists near the Turkish populated village of Geunyeli. That was the first incident involving human lives.


http://www.kypros.org/Cyprus_Problem/p_TMT.html


Do you have anything to say about the events concerning EOKA and their aspirations for ENOSIS during the 1950s that was a direct threat to the survival of the TCs?


and your proof is :?:
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Postby Piratis » Wed May 21, 2008 9:12 am

Do you have anything to say about the events concerning EOKA and their aspirations for ENOSIS during the 1950s that was a direct threat to the survival of the TCs?


The aspirations of Cyprus and all the other Greek islands and territories to be free from their foreign rulers is not something that appeared in 1950s, but it was a struggle that started since the Greek Revolution of 1821:

During the Greek War of Independence in 1821, the Ottoman authorities feared that Greek Cypriots would rebel again. Archbishop Kyprianos, a powerful leader who worked to improve the education of Greek Cypriot children, was accused of plotting against the government. Kyprianos, his bishops, and hundreds of priests and important laymen were arrested and summarily hanged or decapitated on July 9, 1821.


You really can't blame the Cypriots or the Greeks in general for revolting against their foreign rulers seeking their freedom and self-determination.

In 1950 what we asked for was for a referendum, so the Cypriot people can choose in a peaceful and democratic way one of the legitimate options for decolonizing our island, one such legitimate option was union with Greece. This was denied to us and having no other option we were forced to an armed struggle against the colonialists.

I emphasize the "against the colonialists", because the sole aim of EOKA was the British not TCs.

TCs were not attacked and they were not threatened by EOKA.

However in 1958, the TCs with the help of Turkey and Britain, formed TMT and they attacked Greek Cypriots, and the also started to demand that Greek Cypriots should be exterminated from half of their island. EOKA was forced to retaliate, and some 100s of people from each side, many of them innocent, died in the conflict.

Some other Greek territories which were occupied by the Turks had to fight directly against the Turks in order to liberate themselves and therefore there were Turkish casualties as well. However in Cyprus the foreign ruler were the British, not the Turks. Therefore the enemy which was targeted by our liberation struggle were the British, and not the TCs. If the TCs (with the encouragment of the British) had not attacked the GCs, there would be no kind of conflict between GCs and TCs.

The last islands to be liberated from foreign colonialists (Italians in their case) and unite with the rest of Greece was Rhodes and the Dodecanese, which were united (=enosis) with the rest of Greece in 1948. Rhodes like Cyprus has a Turkish minority on it, and absolutely nothing happened to it.

So stop trying to present the 100% just struggle of Cypriots for liberation and self-determination as something "evil" and stop blaming the GCs for the inter-communal conflict when it is in fact the TCs who started it in 1958.
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Postby Viewpoint » Wed May 21, 2008 12:25 pm

Piratis wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
Kifeas wrote:
Piratis wrote:Here:
Land Ownership in Cyprus by Ethnic Group:

60.9% - Greek/Armenian/Maronite Cypriots
12.3% - Turkish Cypriots
0.5% - Others
26.3% - State/Church Land


So the share of TCs would be 12.3% + (18% of 26.3%) = ?


These seem to be the more accurate figures, than the ones above and out of my head, however there is a mistake. The 26.3% is only the State land (public.) Church land is included in the GC land percentage (60.9%,) a well as the Evkaf land is included in the TC percentage (12.3%.)


These % can be examined by independent experts, who can also take into the radical drop in TC land ownership and disputes raised by those with grievances, whatever the outcome both sides will accept without debate, how about that Kifeas?


Sure, but as we all know you refuse to accept UN resolution and legality. Therefore it is obvious that you will accept the experts conclusion only if you like it. If you don't like it you will simply continue to act illegally which has never been a problem to you.

So the Turkish army should first withdraw from Cyprus, legality should be restored, and then we will follow the results given by truly independent experts from truly independent countries about the share of land each community should have.


We can both sign as we did with AP to abide by the blanks filled in by Kofi it was not us who rejected this but you so claiming we will not stick to an agreement is unfair and allowing for your past performance the 1960 agreements which you have no intent of sticking to it should be us who should be worried not you.

why should the Turkish army go? will you give us recognition before a solution? no you will not, so why do you wan the TA out of the way? makes us think all sorts especially when you are hoping for a swing of power in your favor, this maybe just the opportunity to do your worse.
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Postby Viewpoint » Wed May 21, 2008 12:36 pm

Piratis wrote:
Do you have anything to say about the events concerning EOKA and their aspirations for ENOSIS during the 1950s that was a direct threat to the survival of the TCs?


The aspirations of Cyprus and all the other Greek islands and territories to be free from their foreign rulers is not something that appeared in 1950s, but it was a struggle that started since the Greek Revolution of 1821:

During the Greek War of Independence in 1821, the Ottoman authorities feared that Greek Cypriots would rebel again. Archbishop Kyprianos, a powerful leader who worked to improve the education of Greek Cypriot children, was accused of plotting against the government. Kyprianos, his bishops, and hundreds of priests and important laymen were arrested and summarily hanged or decapitated on July 9, 1821.


You really can't blame the Cypriots or the Greeks in general for revolting against their foreign rulers seeking their freedom and self-determination.

In 1950 what we asked for was for a referendum, so the Cypriot people can choose in a peaceful and democratic way one of the legitimate options for decolonizing our island, one such legitimate option was union with Greece. This was denied to us and having no other option we were forced to an armed struggle against the colonialists.

I emphasize the "against the colonialists", because the sole aim of EOKA was the British not TCs.

TCs were not attacked and they were not threatened by EOKA.

However in 1958, the TCs with the help of Turkey and Britain, formed TMT and they attacked Greek Cypriots, and the also started to demand that Greek Cypriots should be exterminated from half of their island. EOKA was forced to retaliate, and some 100s of people from each side, many of them innocent, died in the conflict.

Some other Greek territories which were occupied by the Turks had to fight directly against the Turks in order to liberate themselves and therefore there were Turkish casualties as well. However in Cyprus the foreign ruler were the British, not the Turks. Therefore the enemy which was targeted by our liberation struggle were the British, and not the TCs. If the TCs (with the encouragment of the British) had not attacked the GCs, there would be no kind of conflict between GCs and TCs.

The last islands to be liberated from foreign colonialists (Italians in their case) and unite with the rest of Greece was Rhodes and the Dodecanese, which were united (=enosis) with the rest of Greece in 1948. Rhodes like Cyprus has a Turkish minority on it, and absolutely nothing happened to it.

So stop trying to present the 100% just struggle of Cypriots for liberation and self-determination as something "evil" and stop blaming the GCs for the inter-communal conflict when it is in fact the TCs who started it in 1958.



The Turks in Kos numbered about 3,000 till the 1960s, when tensions among Greece and Turkey increased. The population has declined now to a few hundred, all living in the village of Platani.
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Postby Get Real! » Wed May 21, 2008 5:54 pm

bilako22 wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
bilako22 wrote:He keeps going about some lies concerning 1958 .

I respect your right to remain ignorant but then please quit posting altogether.

The Turkish community was whipped into a frenzy by broadcasts from Turkey calling for the partition of Cyprus. Violence between the turks and Cypriots broke out in early June and climaxed when eight Greeks were massacred in a cornfield near the Turkish village of Geunyeli.

http://www.britains-smallwars.com/cyprus/war.html

On 12 June 1958 eight innocent and unarmed Greek Cypriot civilians from Kondemenos village were murdered by T.M.T. terrorists near the Turkish populated village of Geunyeli. That was the first incident involving human lives.

http://www.kypros.org/Cyprus_Problem/p_TMT.html


Do you have anything to say about the events concerning EOKA and their aspirations for ENOSIS during the 1950s that was a direct threat to the survival of the TCs?

The biggest threat to the Turkish Cypriots has always been the Turkish Cypriots themselves.
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Postby Nikitas » Wed May 21, 2008 6:48 pm

"so why do you wan the TA out of the way?"

Not true! Every single proposal made by the GC side for the withdrawal of Turkish troops was accompanied by an offer that there should be a multinational force to safeguard the TCs until a solution is found.

You want the Turkish army to remain to entrench partition.
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Postby Viewpoint » Wed May 21, 2008 8:02 pm

Nikitas wrote:"so why do you wan the TA out of the way?"

Not true! Every single proposal made by the GC side for the withdrawal of Turkish troops was accompanied by an offer that there should be a multinational force to safeguard the TCs until a solution is found.

You want the Turkish army to remain to entrench partition.


We are not stupid and can clearly see you want the TA out of the way replacing them with a body that you can manipulate and controlö we will never fall into that trap we agree they will have to go because of your red lines but only if we have a comprehensive solutionç
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Postby bilako22 » Thu May 22, 2008 12:54 am

Get Real! wrote:
bilako22 wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
bilako22 wrote:He keeps going about some lies concerning 1958 .

I respect your right to remain ignorant but then please quit posting altogether.

The Turkish community was whipped into a frenzy by broadcasts from Turkey calling for the partition of Cyprus. Violence between the turks and Cypriots broke out in early June and climaxed when eight Greeks were massacred in a cornfield near the Turkish village of Geunyeli.

http://www.britains-smallwars.com/cyprus/war.html

On 12 June 1958 eight innocent and unarmed Greek Cypriot civilians from Kondemenos village were murdered by T.M.T. terrorists near the Turkish populated village of Geunyeli. That was the first incident involving human lives.

http://www.kypros.org/Cyprus_Problem/p_TMT.html


Do you have anything to say about the events concerning EOKA and their aspirations for ENOSIS during the 1950s that was a direct threat to the survival of the TCs?

The biggest threat to the Turkish Cypriots has always been the Turkish Cypriots themselves.


And how about you Greeks who were stupid enough to give Turkey a reason to come to Cyprus by fighting amongst yourselves?
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Postby bilako22 » Thu May 22, 2008 12:56 am

Nikitas wrote:"so why do you wan the TA out of the way?"

Not true! Every single proposal made by the GC side for the withdrawal of Turkish troops was accompanied by an offer that there should be a multinational force to safeguard the TCs until a solution is found.

You want the Turkish army to remain to entrench partition.


Nothing to do with partition . The TA is in Cyprus to prevent the type of crazy Greeks that are on this forum from committing genocide of TCs.
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Postby Nikitas » Thu May 22, 2008 2:48 am

Preventing genocide would be exactly what a multinational force with a clear firepower advantage over ALL other forces in Cyprus would accomplish just as well, if not better than the Turkish troops. The proposals were for the status quo on the ground to remain, even th TRNC to continue as it is, while a solution was being worked out.

The genocide card is a little overplayed.
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