Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

Kifeas, acceptance by the EU and UN are an irrelevance to us because states will recognise the TRNC. You are s*it scared of this and I bet that in such an eventuality you will come running. Some member states of the EU and UN have recognised Kosovo and this will happen with the TRNC. Just wake up people !!!!!

Keep dreaming. The most that you can hope for is some Azerbaijan or Pakistan. Cyprus is an EU member and you expect other EU members to recognize you?

[Piratis]

Muzzy, you was the 18% of Cypriots, both in 1960 and in 1974! You further used to own 17% of the privatelly owned property around Cyprus, both in 1960 and in 1974! These are the undiniable facts and realities in Cyprus, and can be easily prooved!

Are you willing to return the 18% of the 36% of territory that Turkey now occupies illegally from the RoC, and contain yourselves in the remaining 18% that matches with your population and property ownership size? If yes, and take a good look at the map first -before you answer, then you perhaps have some good chances to obtain the signature of the GCs in order to attain recognition! If not, then forget it and concentrate in convincing each other that you need to put water in the wine of your illegitimate demands towards as solution and re-unification!

Kifeas
Excuse my ignorance but i fail to understand the mathematical logic in your above post...
If you say its undeniable fact that TC's privately owned 17% land,why don't you say how much the GC's owned privately and how much was owned by the state?Why is it that always want to give the TC's the privately owned percentage which is theirs anyway and take the rest?
Don't the TC's have any right for a share of the state land if we are going to go our own way?
Wasn't the TC community one of the two founding communities of ROC?

Kifeas posted all the numbers many times. The 17% is not your private owned land. Thats something like 12% if I remember correctly.

17% is the number you come when all the calculations that you talk about are made.

[iceman]

Muzzy, you was the 18% of Cypriots, both in 1960 and in 1974! You further used to own 17% of the privatelly owned property around Cyprus, both in 1960 and in 1974! These are the undiniable facts and realities in Cyprus, and can be easily prooved!

Are you willing to return the 18% of the 36% of territory that Turkey now occupies illegally from the RoC, and contain yourselves in the remaining 18% that matches with your population and property ownership size? If yes, and take a good look at the map first -before you answer, then you perhaps have some good chances to obtain the signature of the GCs in order to attain recognition! If not, then forget it and concentrate in convincing each other that you need to put water in the wine of your illegitimate demands towards as solution and re-unification!

Kifeas
Excuse my ignorance but i fail to understand the mathematical logic in your above post...
If you say its undeniable fact that TC's privately owned 17% land,why don't you say how much the GC's owned privately and how much was owned by the state?Why is it that always want to give the TC's the privately owned percentage which is theirs anyway and take the rest?
Don't the TC's have any right for a share of the state land if we are going to go our own way?
Wasn't the TC community one of the two founding communities of ROC?

Kifeas posted all the numbers many times. The 17% is not your private owned land. Thats something like 12% if I remember correctly.

17% is the number you come when all the calculations that you talk about are made.

yeah....sure!!
That's very generous of you piratis...what would we do without your generosity?

[Piratis]

Here:

Land Ownership in Cyprus by Ethnic Group:

60.9% - Greek/Armenian/Maronite Cypriots
12.3% - Turkish Cypriots
0.5% - Others
26.3% - State/Church Land

So the share of TCs would be 12.3% + (18% of 26.3%) = ?

[Piratis]

That's very generous of you piratis...what would we do without your generosity?

I would be generous if I was willing to gift to you what is ours. So I am not generous.

At the same time I am not a thief like you either, since I don't want to gain anything on your loss.

So why don't you accept your fair share?

[iceman]

That's very generous of you piratis...what would we do without your generosity?

I would be generous if I was willing to gift to you what is ours. So I am not generous.

At the same time I am not a thief like you either, since I don't want to gain anything on your loss.

So why don't you accept your fair share?

How do you know i am a thief piratis? Have you seen me steal anything?
In 1974 my family left loads of property in Limassol and we were given a GC house to live in Kyrenia.

I do not call the refugee family from Varosha and the other refugee family from Morphou living in my houses in Limassol thieves.!! so stop calling me a thief..

As for deciding what is fair share....we shall calculate that together when the time comes

[Kifeas]

Muzzy, you was the 18% of Cypriots, both in 1960 and in 1974! You further used to own 17% of the privatelly owned property around Cyprus, both in 1960 and in 1974! These are the undiniable facts and realities in Cyprus, and can be easily prooved!

Are you willing to return the 18% of the 36% of territory that Turkey now occupies illegally from the RoC, and contain yourselves in the remaining 18% that matches with your population and property ownership size? If yes, and take a good look at the map first -before you answer, then you perhaps have some good chances to obtain the signature of the GCs in order to attain recognition! If not, then forget it and concentrate in convincing each other that you need to put water in the wine of your illegitimate demands towards as solution and re-unification!

Kifeas
Excuse my ignorance but i fail to understand the mathematical logic in your above post...
If you say its undeniable fact that TC's privately owned 17% land,why don't you say how much the GC's owned privately and how much was owned by the state?Why is it that always want to give the TC's the privately owned percentage which is theirs anyway and take the rest?
Don't the TC's have any right for a share of the state land if we are going to go our own way?
Wasn't the TC community one of the two founding communities of ROC?

74% of the total territory of Cyprus was privately owned. The rest (26%) was state owned land (halitika -forests, mountains, rivers, roads, etc.) This state owned land is the property of all Cypriots, collectively!

Out of this 74% of privately owned land, about 17% was owned by members of the TC community (individuals, companies, associations, communal councils, evkaf, etc,) 81% was owned by GCs (individuals, companies, associations, communal councils, church, etc., including Armenians and Maronites.) The remaining 2% was owned by foreigners i.e. not belonging to anyone of the two communities (mainly British.)

Piratis is right! If you make the calculation (deduction) of this 17% TC private land, as a percentage of the total of Cyprus territory, it comes down to 12.5% of Cyprus.

These are the facts as they emerged from the 1960 land registry records, which were kept roughly the same until 1974!

[Kifeas]

Here:

Land Ownership in Cyprus by Ethnic Group:

60.9% - Greek/Armenian/Maronite Cypriots
12.3% - Turkish Cypriots
0.5% - Others
26.3% - State/Church Land

So the share of TCs would be 12.3% + (18% of 26.3%) = ?

These seem to be the more accurate figures, than the ones above and out of my head, however there is a mistake. The 26.3% is only the State land (public.) Church land is included in the GC land percentage (60.9%,) a well as the Evkaf land is included in the TC percentage (12.3%.)

[halil]

That's very generous of you piratis...what would we do without your generosity?

I would be generous if I was willing to gift to you what is ours. So I am not generous.

At the same time I am not a thief like you either, since I don't want to gain anything on your loss.

So why don't you accept your fair share?

How do you know i am a thief piratis? Have you seen me steal anything?
In 1974 my family left loads of property in Limassol and we were given a GC house to live in Kyrenia.

I do not call the refugee family from Varosha and the other refugee family from Morphou living in my houses in Limassol thieves.!! so stop calling me a thief..

As for deciding what is fair share....we shall calculate that together when the time comes

Yes İceman,
everything will be solved at table by showing the Kocans and doing calculations ............ when the time comes ............ nothing can be solved by spreading the numbers or by sayings .
how they have been trained İceman ..... Thieves ..... occupation .....
no one talks that those TC's left their houses in 63 ..... since than no one talks about their lost .....

[Kikapu]

Kifeas, acceptance by the EU and UN are an irrelevance to us because states will recognise the TRNC. You are s*it scared of this and I bet that in such an eventuality you will come running. Some member states of the EU and UN have recognised Kosovo and this will happen with the TRNC. Just wake up people !!!!!

Muzzy 70,

If you are counting on George Bush to give some kind of recognition to the "TRNC" before he leaves office, it may be as good as Bush saying that he wants a two state solution to Israel-Palestinian problems before leaving office, which is approaching very rapidly. If the whole matter needs to be approved by the congress and the senate, it will not see the day of light since the Democrats control both houses and their numbers will increase after the next election in November. The Democrats have already put Turkey on notice about the Armenian Genocide and Occupation in Cyprus issues only few months ago when Bush intervened for the measure not to come to the floor for a vote, because it may make matters worse for the US troops in Iraq. As soon as Bush is gone, Barak Obama as the new President and the Democrats are going to end the war in Iraq as we know it, therefore, there will be less reliant on Turkey's geographical location, which will bring up the Armenian Genocide and Cyprus Occupation back in focus again, and the Democrats will be in a much stronger position to pass any measures they want, because of their increased members in the Congress and the Senate come this November.


As for some EU member states individually recognising Kosovo, will not be the same as these individual EU states doing the same thing to one of their own (Cyprus) by recognising the "TRNC" for the reasons Kifeas gave you earlier. If by off chance that Bush goes crazier than he already is and wants to recognize the "TRNC", then Bush will be signing Turkey's political death sentence to enter the EU in the future. Turkey's best friends to help her into the EU are Britain and the USA. Therefore, why would the USA kill off Turkey's chances to enter the EU for the sake of the "TRNC". I can assure you, to the USA and Britain, Turkey comes before the "TRNC". The last 24 years since 1983's "Independence" should tell you something, as to why the "TRNC" has not gotten anymore states to recognize it, including all those "brotherly" Muslim States.

I'm sorry but, the future of the TC's are as one country with the GC's in Cyprus, under one government as equal citizens. The best case scenario will be a North state and a South state in a True Federation with True Democracy where anyone has rights to their properties, freedom of movement and constitutional right to vote in the state they live in by all citizens of Cyprus. Anything less than that, is a partition no matter what label you put on it, specially if it say Annan Plan on the cover.