Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kifeas]

You can talk about this forever , Turkey will not move away from Cyprus completely . Accept the facts on the ground and do the best out of your situation.

Then Turkey will never see its EU aspirations ever materializing, simply because it will never see our signature on the dotted line, besides the fact that soon, if it doesn't recognize the RoC and open its ports and airspace, it will have to face a complete suspension of its accession process, with all the negative and possibly detrimental consequences for its internal political, social and economic stability.

And this also answers Birs suggestion that we should voluntarily and unilaterally dissolve the NG, as a good will gesture! With all the above things in mind, and in view of the fact that no power center in Turkey -more so the army's generals, can possibly be trusted not to go crazy one morning and seek a new adventure in Cyprus, as a reaction to our legitimate political stance toward Turkey; we do need a national guard strong enough to sustain for at least a week or so, before any international political or otherwise mobilization against the "incensed" generals takes place! If on the other hand, Turkey feels that within 24 hours they may be in Pafos, then there is a danger they may consider it! Sorry Bir, but Turkey is not a country that can be trusted for its internal stability and mature attitude and behavior, and with 40,000 troops in Cyprus, they are a constant threat, no matter what! You may think otherwise, but allow us to differ! We see what happens int his country, every day of the week, decades upon decades now!

PS: And we are not so naive to believe that if we unilaterally dissolve the NG, Turkey will reciprocate by removing her troops from Cyprus, or that it will listen to anyone who may suggest it to do so! Turkey has shown us that unless forced or pressurized to do something, and if what they stand to lose by non compliance is greater than by doing so, they never take a step that may be seen internally as a sign of weakness! It is part of the nationalist Kemalist culture, dating even before it and since the times of the Ottoman Empire!

[bilako22]

There has been no solution to the Cyprus 'problem' for so long now because there was never the will for compromise on the part of both communities

How could you possibly know that, your guy Denktash never negotiated! There has been no solution for so many years because Turkey kept repeating "problem solved in 1974". Guess what, it's time to get a taste of your own medicine, you rush for a solution because Turkey wants to enter the EU and the RoC takes its time because, well, it can afford to

Let the ROC take its time . There is no rush . Most of us know that Turkey will NEVER be allowed into the EU and that the present entry negotiations are merely an attempt at forcing Turkey out of Cyprus.

[humanist]

alexISS

How could you possibly know that, your guy Denktash never negotiated! There has been no solution for so many years because Turkey kept repeating "problem solved in 1974". Guess what, it's time to get a taste of your own medicine, you rush for a solution because Turkey wants to enter the EU and the RoC takes its time because, well, it can afford to

couldn't have really said it better myself

cheers

[Nikitas]

Bir asks:

"Lets pull the rug from under Turkey's feet by unilaterally disarming now...By now I mean after the latest round of negotiations fail,as no doubt they will...Unleash the great waves of goodwill which this move will generate,and remove any justification for Turkish troops to be present in Cyprus...I am proposing a tactical and psychological move which will go a long way to convince the TCs that the GCs are ready to put the bloody past behind us...What do the RoC have to lose by such a move???"

Well, that is the point when Greece would object to unilateral demilitarisation of the GC side. And for good reason when you examine the scenarios of major Turkish military exercises, the posture of the Turkish air force and navy and the strategy that can be inferred from these exercises.

The Turkish armed forces project power in the Mediterranean region between Crete and Cyprus on every possible occasion, including going as far as harassing planes transporting Greek officials to and from Cyprus.

If the National Guard is disbanded and for whatever reason there is trouble on the island Greece would have to protect the GCs. No Greek government could survive a day if it it did not. Without the National Guard the Greek armed forces would have to deal with the presence of Turish forces in the area between Crete and Cyprus and that would automatically mean an all out war between the two NATO partners. Having the National Guard in place can localise the conflict.

The Greek military have a low profile since the fall of the junta and since Greece entered the EU and the military dropped out of politics. Thtis does not mean that they are out of the picture. In fact , since being divorced from politics they are more in line with the professional role foreseen for the military in advanced countries and also far more capable than they were during the dictatorship.

[BirKibrisli]

Bir asks:

"Lets pull the rug from under Turkey's feet by unilaterally disarming now...By now I mean after the latest round of negotiations fail,as no doubt they will...Unleash the great waves of goodwill which this move will generate,and remove any justification for Turkish troops to be present in Cyprus...I am proposing a tactical and psychological move which will go a long way to convince the TCs that the GCs are ready to put the bloody past behind us...What do the RoC have to lose by such a move???"

Well, that is the point when Greece would object to unilateral demilitarisation of the GC side. And for good reason when you examine the scenarios of major Turkish military exercises, the posture of the Turkish air force and navy and the strategy that can be inferred from these exercises.

The Turkish armed forces project power in the Mediterranean region between Crete and Cyprus on every possible occasion, including going as far as harassing planes transporting Greek officials to and from Cyprus.

If the National Guard is disbanded and for whatever reason there is trouble on the island Greece would have to protect the GCs. No Greek government could survive a day if it it did not. Without the National Guard the Greek armed forces would have to deal with the presence of Turish forces in the area between Crete and Cyprus and that would automatically mean an all out war between the two NATO partners. Having the National Guard in place can localise the conflict.

The Greek military have a low profile since the fall of the junta and since Greece entered the EU and the military dropped out of politics. Thtis does not mean that they are out of the picture. In fact , since being divorced from politics they are more in line with the professional role foreseen for the military in advanced countries and also far more capable than they were during the dictatorship.

My ambition is for Cyprus and Cypriots to cut the umbilical cords which ties us to Turkey and Greece,Nikitas...If we want to be truly independent,we ought to be able to stand on our own two feet...I believe that the CNG is not a deterrent for Turkey...Its absence would be much more effective in my opinion...Cyprus can get by with a Coastguard and a lightly armed Police Force...These could be made up of ,say,60-40 ratio to give the TCs a real sense of security...Then there will be no need for the TCs to demand a guarantee from Turkey...And Turkey will have no justification to keep any troops on Cyprus soil...But I know the GCs are not ready to take that leap,it is just too drastic for them...After all,they did not manage to limit the presence of the Greek flags or change the Greek national anthem all this time...I think I will not waste any more breath on this issue. I will return to waiting for a miracle to help us find a just solution...It is much less stressful that way...

[Get Real!]

I am talking about how on earth will we get the TCs to accept the withdrawal of the Turkish troops and not insist on unilateral intervension rights...

This is based on your fallacy that Turkish Cypriots control the presence of the Turkish military on Cyprus when in actual fact they control absolutely NOTHING. Turkey is simply using the Turkish Cypriots as an excuse to remain on the island and even if the Turkish Cypriots were to ask her to leave she would find another excuse to get her way.

One way that comes to my mind is to disarm the Cypriot Army after the solution,or as part of the solution,so that the TCs would not be scared to death of being annihilated...

And this is the part where you unveil your mask for all to see! Any country unfortunate enough to be a neighbor of trigger-happy Turkey will ALWAYS need as strong a military as possible… I dare say 10% or even 15% for defense. The BEST guarantee for Turkish Cypriots not to be “annihilated” is to stop their treasonous ways and start acting like bloody Cypriots for once, but you fail to make mention of that “little” problem your community has and pass the buck to the Greek Cypriots so that they may always remain defenseless and vulnerable to accommodate your community’s STUPIDITIES!

But it is okey..The world is not ready for such "foolish" ideas...It is better to talk about war,and the armed struggle for liberating our country...And our right to defend ourselves,even when we know we can't do such a thing realistically...

I’ll take my chances thank you, even at the risk of paying the ultimate price, but I’ll certainly not surrender to the blackmails of an UNIVITED minority constantly swimming upstream and parlaying with Turkey!

If you REALLY want to help your people start teaching some sense into their screwed up heads and quit asking the Greek Cypriots to forever accommodate those irresponsible fools! It's HIGH TIME your people starting facing up to their responsibilities and cut the bullshit, and if they do not listen then let them reap what they sow.

I know for a fact that my people are smart enough to be around for centuries if not millenniums to come but I don’t know about yours.

You can't say on one hand that the TCs have no say over their fate,and on the other ask me to make them see the wrongs of their ways...What good would it do???
I happen to agree with you. Their fate has not been in their hands for a long time...The Tcs have been the biggest losers in this bloody situation. So stop blaming the victims,GR...It is too facile and reprehensible...

I am trying to save all Cypriots from another catastrophy which would certainly follow if you keep going with your talk of war and change of the balance of power etc...Armed struggle by the EOKA and the TMT got us where we are today primarily..Plus Turkey's willingness to please the USA and the NATO...Plus the Greek Junta's stupidity...but that is all history now...Cyprus is in the EU and can afford to make a bold gesture to counter one of the excuses used by Turkey to stay in Cyprus...I guess I am expecting too much sense and sensibility from my compatriots who are hell bent on achieving martyrdom...I am warning you,GR...There are no more virgins left in Heaven,the Islamic fundamentalists have seen to that

What catastrophe? Is losing 10,000 or 20,000 men in a war against Turkey a catastrophe if it’s to remove the foreign invader once and for all from Cyprus? I don’t think so.

Do you know what a catastrophe REALLY is? It’s having a bunch of honor-less Turkish Nationalists forever up your arse backstabbing Cyprus like what most of your people are doing and have been doing for the last 400 odd years…

THAT IS THE CATASTROPHE!

[Get Real!]

Ladies and gentleman. Any problem with Turkey keeping 650 troops only on the island along with the Treaty of Guarantee until she becomes a member of the EU ? This would allay T/C fears post settlement. It's a realistic proposal and one which should be grasped. In fact I'd suggest that something along these lines will eventually be agreed upon by both leaders.

Those of you who feel the need for Turkish protection should paddle back to Turkey where you came from where you'll get all the protection you'll ever need.

[BirKibrisli]

I am talking about how on earth will we get the TCs to accept the withdrawal of the Turkish troops and not insist on unilateral intervension rights...

This is based on your fallacy that Turkish Cypriots control the presence of the Turkish military on Cyprus when in actual fact they control absolutely NOTHING. Turkey is simply using the Turkish Cypriots as an excuse to remain on the island and even if the Turkish Cypriots were to ask her to leave she would find another excuse to get her way.

One way that comes to my mind is to disarm the Cypriot Army after the solution,or as part of the solution,so that the TCs would not be scared to death of being annihilated...

And this is the part where you unveil your mask for all to see! Any country unfortunate enough to be a neighbor of trigger-happy Turkey will ALWAYS need as strong a military as possible… I dare say 10% or even 15% for defense. The BEST guarantee for Turkish Cypriots not to be “annihilated” is to stop their treasonous ways and start acting like bloody Cypriots for once, but you fail to make mention of that “little” problem your community has and pass the buck to the Greek Cypriots so that they may always remain defenseless and vulnerable to accommodate your community’s STUPIDITIES!

But it is okey..The world is not ready for such "foolish" ideas...It is better to talk about war,and the armed struggle for liberating our country...And our right to defend ourselves,even when we know we can't do such a thing realistically...

I’ll take my chances thank you, even at the risk of paying the ultimate price, but I’ll certainly not surrender to the blackmails of an UNIVITED minority constantly swimming upstream and parlaying with Turkey!

If you REALLY want to help your people start teaching some sense into their screwed up heads and quit asking the Greek Cypriots to forever accommodate those irresponsible fools! It's HIGH TIME your people starting facing up to their responsibilities and cut the bullshit, and if they do not listen then let them reap what they sow.

I know for a fact that my people are smart enough to be around for centuries if not millenniums to come but I don’t know about yours.

You can't say on one hand that the TCs have no say over their fate,and on the other ask me to make them see the wrongs of their ways...What good would it do???
I happen to agree with you. Their fate has not been in their hands for a long time...The Tcs have been the biggest losers in this bloody situation. So stop blaming the victims,GR...It is too facile and reprehensible...

I am trying to save all Cypriots from another catastrophy which would certainly follow if you keep going with your talk of war and change of the balance of power etc...Armed struggle by the EOKA and the TMT got us where we are today primarily..Plus Turkey's willingness to please the USA and the NATO...Plus the Greek Junta's stupidity...but that is all history now...Cyprus is in the EU and can afford to make a bold gesture to counter one of the excuses used by Turkey to stay in Cyprus...I guess I am expecting too much sense and sensibility from my compatriots who are hell bent on achieving martyrdom...I am warning you,GR...There are no more virgins left in Heaven,the Islamic fundamentalists have seen to that

What catastrophe? Is losing 10,000 or 20,000 men in a war against Turkey a catastrophe if it’s to remove the foreign invader once and for all from Cyprus? I don’t think so.

Do you know what a catastrophe REALLY is? It’s having a bunch of honor-less Turkish Nationalists forever up your arse backstabbing Cyprus like what most of your people are doing and have been doing for the last 400 odd years…

THAT IS THE CATASTROPHE!

A Catastrophe for me would be seeing one more person's blood shed in this mindless conflict...Let alone 20,000...What guarantee do you have that you will be able to remove the "foreign invader" once and for all???
Unless you have the menpower to occupy a defeated Turkey for the rest of eternity,you will only be inviting a catastrophe which will make the present one look like a souvlaki party on the beach...

[Nikitas]

I do not think it is necessary to occupy Turkey or even physically expel the troops she has on Cyprus. Any perceived military setback suffered by the Turkish army, no matter how small, would lead to a change of the status quo in Turkey and put the generals where they belong, under the politicians and not over them.

To give a for instance, if the Turkish air force is sent to destroy a GC installation and they fail, losing several planes and then the army fails to do the same thing, this is a sufficient excuse to put the military under the microscope. Their supremacy depends on the myth of invincibility they have cultivated all these years.

[bilako22]

I do not think it is necessary to occupy Turkey or even physically expel the troops she has on Cyprus. Any perceived military setback suffered by the Turkish army, no matter how small, would lead to a change of the status quo in Turkey and put the generals where they belong, under the politicians and not over them.

To give a for instance, if the Turkish air force is sent to destroy a GC installation and they fail, losing several planes and then the army fails to do the same thing, this is a sufficient excuse to put the military under the microscope. Their supremacy depends on the myth of invincibility they have cultivated all these years.

No , No , No . The Turks will just keep going until they win. Hardware and life to them is meaningless, they will sacrifice a million soldiers to win in Cyprus.