Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

Cyprus is an island. Its dwellers are Cypriots. You may think you know a lot about "Greeks" or "Turks", but to me and my village dwellers, the land, as its Stewards, is more important to us than your labels.

You probably think we are still united.

[repulsewarrior]

Yes, Cypriots remain united.

[Viewpoint]

Yes, Cypriots remain united.

Yes on both sides of the divide as GCs and TCs.

[repulsewarrior]

if you love this island, you would look beyond your own desires...

GC TC are all the same to me.

human first, an Individual.

as a Person you can make labels all you want.

[BirKibrisli]

Bir said:

"The "annihilation " threat was, of course,greatly exaggerated.By Denktash and Co whose aim was Taksim from the very beginning..."

The irony is that a purely Cypriot deal, among GCs and TCs with no outside interference, which culminated in partition would not be so unpalatable. What makes the idea of partition totally unaccepatble is that it was projected as new Turkish conquest. It is funny that Denktash could not see this objection, maybe Taksim was not in his plans as much as a reconquest by Turkey. If I am not mistaken the plan formulated by the Turkish general staff in the 50s had the code name Retaking of Cyprus.

On the other side, the Greek side, one often hears older Greek army officers talking about "taking Cyprus" which shows the idea of Enosis to have been equally misleading. They said Enosis when they meant conquest.

Our two motherlands seem to be in tune as to the treatment they mete out to us, following to the letter the old saying: "the one you showed me was not the one you stuck me with".

Denktash was and is a Turanist,Nikitas...He believes in Greater Turkey,uniting all the Turkic people of the world under one flag, in one nation state,under the same leader,preferably himself....I am sure you have had similarly dangerous people on the GC/Greek side.They might not have had the opportunities our Denktash Baba had to shine so brightly...

Hey Birkibrisli, could you please tell me what you mean by the term 'True Republic of Cyprus' ?

Sure,Muzzy...The True Republic is the one signed in 1959 and came into existence in 1960 (August if I am not mistaken)...The one and only agrement we have managed to achieve in our,relatively,short history...

The Gcs didn't want this agreement back then what makes you believe they would let you return to it today? have they ever put this on the table as is? how long do you think it would be before they raised Akritas 2?

We were all fools back in those days,dear VP...We didn't want those agreements either...Someone said (I forget who) 'Home is the place where if you knock on the door they have to take you in..." Our home,all Cypriots home,is the True Cyprus Republic...All we have to do is Knock!!!
Akritas 1 proved such a disaster like our own Taksim Plan...We actually got closer to it with the status quo...If we give up Taksim the GC will bury the Akritas plan for good...They have already buried Enosis...
The choice for the TCs now is to go back to their Home and live with dignity and integrity for the rest of time,or to live as unwanted but barely tolerated distant cousins in someone else's Home...When the present attempts at a solution fails,and it will within a year,it will be the time to choose...Assuming we still have the right to choose our own fate...

[Nikitas]

"Do you think we are ever likely to learn our lessons,Nikitas???
Or will be always be suckers for our mothers' false affections?????? "

Bir, we are in a clinch, not daring to let go of the idea of nationality. I often ponder what would allow us to outgrow this split between Cypriot and mainland nationality. Some major national accomplishment which will make us proud in our own right, (we have already tried disaster and it did not work), might do it. Or maybe discovering some source of wealth, like the oil supposed to be in CYprus waters, which would make everyone rich and snobbish about his Cypriotness. Something like this occurred in the Emirates and set them apart from Arabs in general.

More difficult would be a common project which will set Cyprus apart from either mainland something that gives a sense of national confidence. Rebuilding Famagusta as a joint Pancyprian project is one such possibility, or even Nicosia airport. Whatever it is it must involve joint work and planning rather than theory and ideology. We had enough ideology.

[Oracle]

If we give up Taksim the GC will bury the Akritas plan for good...They have already buried Enosis...

The Akritas plan, such as it was, was about improvement of the Constitution towards Democratization and was not enosis inspired. So Taksim is akin to enosis not Akritas.

Akritas does not figure in any plans. And whilst Cyprus is no longer aiming for enosis because of the EU ..... Turkey has indeed implemented and continues to apply Taksim.

There are many cries for Cypriots to give up their motherlands for the good of Cyprus...

But you know, we don't have to give up our closer ties with Greece because they will no longer make us weaker as an independent nation. Closer ties with Greece will be just like closer ties with any other EU nation, they will be strengthening. Perhaps that is why Turkey would like to see us disassociate from Greece completely.

The only detrimental "motherland" to the Cypriots is Turkey, as we witness to this very day ...

That is the only motherland whose strings must be cut for the further-ment and betterment of Cyprus and even all Cypriots ....

Turkey is holding us back.

[BirKibrisli]

"Do you think we are ever likely to learn our lessons,Nikitas???
Or will be always be suckers for our mothers' false affections?????? "

Bir, we are in a clinch, not daring to let go of the idea of nationality. I often ponder what would allow us to outgrow this split between Cypriot and mainland nationality. Some major national accomplishment which will make us proud in our own right, (we have already tried disaster and it did not work), might do it. Or maybe discovering some source of wealth, like the oil supposed to be in CYprus waters, which would make everyone rich and snobbish about his Cypriotness. Something like this occurred in the Emirates and set them apart from Arabs in general.

More difficult would be a common project which will set Cyprus apart from either mainland something that gives a sense of national confidence. Rebuilding Famagusta as a joint Pancyprian project is one such possibility, or even Nicosia airport. Whatever it is it must involve joint work and planning rather than theory and ideology. We had enough ideology.

Yeah...we need to bury both ideology and nationalism...But for the TCs the biggest obstacle would be to bury their fear of another attempted genocide...I know you guys don't really believe this fear is real,but it is.Very much so...The TCs are brainwashed. They think the GCs are just waiting for Turkey to turn her back,in order to slaughter the whole lot of us...It is of course irrational which is why it will not go away easily...

I think it will take a very brave move from the GCs (like totally and unilaterally disarming) to overcome this obstacle...But that will not happen in a hurry...so the show will go on...and on..and on...

[BirKibrisli]

If we give up Taksim the GC will bury the Akritas plan for good...They have already buried Enosis...

The Akritas plan, such as it was, was about improvement of the Constitution towards Democratization and was not enosis inspired. So Taksim is akin to enosis not Akritas.

Akritas does not figure in any plans. And whilst Cyprus is no longer aiming for enosis because of the EU ..... Turkey has indeed implemented and continues to apply Taksim.

There are many cries for Cypriots to give up their motherlands for the good of Cyprus...

But you know, we don't have to give up our closer ties with Greece because they will no longer make us weaker as an independent nation. Closer ties with Greece will be just like closer ties with any other EU nation, they will be strengthening. Perhaps that is why Turkey would like to see us disassociate from Greece completely.

The only detrimental "motherland" to the Cypriots is Turkey, as we witness to this very day ...

That is the only motherland whose strings must be cut for the further-ment and betterment of Cyprus and even all Cypriots ....

Turkey is holding us back.

Try explaining that to the TCs,Oracle..GCs must maintain their ties with Greece,but you must cut yours with Turkey....Great...That should inspire a lot of confidence...

[bilako22]

Bir said:

"The "annihilation " threat was, of course,greatly exaggerated.By Denktash and Co whose aim was Taksim from the very beginning..."

The irony is that a purely Cypriot deal, among GCs and TCs with no outside interference, which culminated in partition would not be so unpalatable. What makes the idea of partition totally unaccepatble is that it was projected as new Turkish conquest. It is funny that Denktash could not see this objection, maybe Taksim was not in his plans as much as a reconquest by Turkey. If I am not mistaken the plan formulated by the Turkish general staff in the 50s had the code name Retaking of Cyprus.

On the other side, the Greek side, one often hears older Greek army officers talking about "taking Cyprus" which shows the idea of Enosis to have been equally misleading. They said Enosis when they meant conquest.

Our two motherlands seem to be in tune as to the treatment they mete out to us, following to the letter the old saying: "the one you showed me was not the one you stuck me with".

Denktash was and is a Turanist,Nikitas...He believes in Greater Turkey,uniting all the Turkic people of the world under one flag, in one nation state,under the same leader,preferably himself....I am sure you have had similarly dangerous people on the GC/Greek side.They might not have had the opportunities our Denktash Baba had to shine so brightly...

Hey Birkibrisli, could you please tell me what you mean by the term 'True Republic of Cyprus' ?

Sure,Muzzy...The True Republic is the one signed in 1959 and came into existence in 1960 (August if I am not mistaken)...The one and only agrement we have managed to achieve in our,relatively,short history...

An agreement not worth the paper it was written on./