Cyprus-Forum.com

[CopperLine]

I'll try to reply more fully later, but I'm not convinced of the long use of the term Cypriot. It is one thing to describe someone who is from a region or island as Cypriot; it is quite another thing to describe a particular and discrete political identity as Cypriot. I accept that the former has been used for hundreds if not thousands of years; but the latter, I maintain, is a relatively recent invention.

It is true that those from the island of Ireland have been called Irish fro centuries, but by god many of those who live in Northern Ireland/Ulster are most definitely not Irish. Similarly while Turks have lived in Anatolia for centuries, by no means were all or even most Anatolians ethnically or linguistically Turks.

Whilst all people who lived in Cyprus might have been referred to as Cypriots , that is not the same as being politically, ethnically, linguistically, etc, Cypriot.

[CopperLine]

If any one is interested, here's an interesting article on Herodotus and language :

http://www.dur.ac.uk/Classics/histos/1998/harrison.html

[Nikitas]

Just looked up the site mentioned by Bilako and found this passage in the text:

"The Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus was established in 1983, after the intervention of Turkey in 1974 to stop the bloodshed, which followed the Coup. The Coup was orchestrated by the Greek Junta, to annexe Cyprus to Greece (Enosis). Fighting broke out between the pro Greek and the Republican Greek Cypriots. Eventually the Republic of Cyprus government was overthrown and the Greeks began a genocide against the Turkish Cypriots"

I am no friend of the junta yobboes but really! There was no one single instance of TCs being harmed by the junta people during the days they held power, which was 8 days in total. Naturally the authors of the site know this, but their text is aimed at foreigners and it does sound plausible for the ingorant. But among us CYpriots this is not the way to make friends and influence people.

[BirKibrisli]

Those who make sweeping negative statements about a whole race or a whole nation,are only showing their ignorance and prejudice,no matter who they are...During most of the Ottoman reign Turks were amongst the regularly oppressed and savaged subjects of the empire...They were essentially given the role of farmers and peasants,and kept in their place by force when necessary...It was only after the ascend of the Young Turks at the end of the 19th Century,and especially after Kemal Ataturk's victory over the Emperor that the Turks gained any political power...

Turkey came into existence in 1923...The people of Turkey can only be judged for what happened after that date...And before judgement,those doing the judging must have a good look at themselves before throwing any stones...The Turkish people are paranoid enough regarding the way they are perceived by the rest of the world,without threads like this making it worse...

[Kikapu]

I'll try to reply more fully later, but I'm not convinced of the long use of the term Cypriot. It is one thing to describe someone who is from a region or island as Cypriot; it is quite another thing to describe a particular and discrete political identity as Cypriot. I accept that the former has been used for hundreds if not thousands of years; but the latter, I maintain, is a relatively recent invention.

It is true that those from the island of Ireland have been called Irish fro centuries, but by god many of those who live in Northern Ireland/Ulster are most definitely not Irish. Similarly while Turks have lived in Anatolia for centuries, by no means were all or even most Anatolians ethnically or linguistically Turks.

Whilst all people who lived in Cyprus might have been referred to as Cypriots , that is not the same as being politically, ethnically, linguistically, etc, Cypriot.

If we don't call ourselves Cypriots CopperLine, then what shall we call ourselves to be "politically correct".??

[CopperLine]

Kikapu,
I'm not interested in political correctness, daft corrupting notion that it is.

I am however interested in the historical question - in principle open to historical verification - what people called each other, and the names that they were known by.

[Kikapu]

Kikapu,
I'm not interested in political correctness, daft corrupting notion that it is.

I am however interested in the historical question - in principle open to historical verification - what people called each other, and the names that they were known by.

Do you mean something like the Vikings or Norsemen (Scandinavians) who were not called Swedish, Danish, Finish and so on, but just Vikings despite the names of their origin may have said, Sweden, Denmark, Finland and so on.?

So what you are trying to find out is, what were the people of Cyprus called at different times of the islands history, other than the obvious one, "Cypriots" to connect them to the land

[Piratis]

Cooperline, things are much easier my friend:

A Greek speaking Cypriot is a Greek Cypriot. And Greek Cypriots with their Greek identity but also local Cypriot identity existed for 1000s of years, always having a Greek religion (first Olympus Gods, then Greek Orthodox Christianity - religions that exist exclusively among Greeks) and a Greek kind of culture with distinctive Cypriot elements.

The question is when the "Turkish Cypriots" and the "Turkish Cypriot Community" was created? Because what we had in Cyprus during the Ottoman rule was a Muslim minority (a religion not exclusively for Turks) that did not identify (as a whole at least) as Turks, and many of them didn't even speak Turkish!

So when was decided that this Muslim minority was actually a Turkish minority? And how come and people that didn't even speak Turkish were grouped as "Turkish Cypriots"?

[bilako22]

Third, Piratis I don't know when the terms Turkish Cypriot or Greek Cypriot were introduced. I suspect that it was post-1915 or possibly post 1922-23, but I doubt that they were terms used before then. Something though to investigate. I'd be intrigued to find out when the descriptor 'Cypriot' was introduced, with or without linguistic or ethnic prefix. Again I suspect not until the twentieth century; well see.

CopperLine, references to Greeks and Cypriots in Cyprus goes back 1000s of years. Homer referred to the goddess of Cyprus Aphrodite as the "Cyprian" goddess in the 8th century BC, and Stasinos wrote the "Cyprian Epics" at about the same time, "κοινό Κυπρίων" (Common for all Cypriots) is what appears on coins 1000s of years old etc etc. So there is no question about that.

The question is when it was decided that the Muslims that lived in Cyprus, many of whom had Greek as their first language, were the "Turkish Cypriot Community"?

IN the Dillirga area there such TCs who fit your description . My grandparents and their parents , who were all Moslem , used Greek as their one and only language. I would say that once the British took Cyprus and the Hellanic dream of Enosis started to become a strong movement these Moslems looked into themselves and realised that they were Turks.

If your grandparents and their parents had Greek as their first language this means they were Greek. Many Greek Cypriots were forced to change religion during the Ottoman rule because Muslims paid only half the taxes and they were treated much better in general.

If they "looked into themselves" then they would find nothing Turkish about themselves. Apparently religion was used by some (whom?) to turn those Muslims Cypriots into Turks.

I remember Bir saying about TMT banning the Greek language among the Turkish Cypriots, but it is obvious that similar practices were going on for several decades before the founding of the TMT.

It seems that you know very little about the Greek speaking TCs.
Try www.yesilirmak.net. They became Greek speakers due to lack of education .

So when did the parents of your grandparents lived? Wasn't is during Ottoman rule? During Ottoman rule there was good Greek education but not Turkish education? And if people learn some other language like I learned English that other language becomes their ONE AND ONLY language? You don't make any sense!

Come on guys , make an effort to learn . Are any of you familiar with the history of Dillirga. My grandparents lived mostly during the British rule . They were poor , and they lived in areas where the Greeks were in the majority.Their ancestors did speak Turkish , but over time and due to having no education they learned to use Greek as their main language.
Once turkey started to fund Turkish education in Cyprus we became bi-lingual and fluent in both languages . Quite often , the Turks of this area will mix both languages in conservation.

[bilako22]

There's very little you've managed to say that has been helpful to your side.

Maybe thats because he is Greek

When I look in the mirror I definitely look more Greek than Mongolian.