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Medieval Cyprus Society: reading in Alsancak

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Postby Rebel.Without.A.Pause » Tue May 20, 2008 12:44 am

Did anyone ever explain to this jackass that the ownership of a place belongs only to the people that indigenously live and lived on it for centuries, and not to those foreigners that came and occupied it by force, or those that invade and ethnically cleanse its indegenous inhabitants in order to bring their own people from outside? I suppose his interest in medieval history is only due to his dream of taking us back to the dark ages of human existence, for only under this era he figured out he has a chance to "explain" and "justify" his illegitimacies!


These are people that believe and promote colonialism.
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Re: Medieval Cyprus Society: reading in Alsancak

Postby Kifeas » Tue May 20, 2008 12:46 am

Get Real! wrote:
dutch_crusader wrote:Medieval Cyprus Society (MCS) now meeting in Alsancak

How does your society go about explaining the many medieval churches pillaged and ransacked of their priceless artifacts, some of which have been “sold off” to foreigners to be used as homes, others reduced to rubble, and many turned into animal stables, by Turks and Turkish Cypriots after the July 1974 Turkish invasion?


Which medieval churches? Ask him first if the word "Greek Cypriots" is even mentioned once in his "history lessons," to have ever existed and lived in the occupied north of Cyprus? I very much doubt it, after I personally heard a tour “guide” in Salamina “explaining” to some tourists that the ancient Greek engravings on the walls of the place were in ancient Persian language, which is why she couldn’t translate what they were saying!
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Postby Kifeas » Tue May 20, 2008 12:59 am

denizaksulu wrote:
Rebel.Without.A.Pause wrote:Another bullshit history lesson well they are going to try and tell us that there were no Greeks during the Lusignan, Genoese, Venetian and Ottoman era.

Thats like saying there were no Africans in West Africa during the Ottoman and European colonial era.


Yes there were but of no significance. You were merely serfs. You got your freedom under the generosity of the Ottomans. Deal with it.


Deniz, let me explain to you a few things! Significant or insignificant, even as serfs and slaves, it is our ancestors' hands, sweat and blood that were shed and spent in order for all those medieval and ancient landmarks to have been built, north and south of Cyprus, and certainly no Venetian, Ottoman or Frankish legs and hands were broken in order to carry the stones up to a thousand meters high, in order to built Kantara, Ayios Hilarion and Bufavento castles; that is why we Greek Cypriots, as the overwhelming majority and the oldest of this country’s indigenous inhabitants, firmly believe and claim we are the owners, and will never give up the ownership of that part of Cyprus too!
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Postby Kifeas » Tue May 20, 2008 1:30 am

For those of you that may not be aware, the name “Alsancak” in Turkish means “red banner,” and is named so because of the Greek Cypriot blood the Turkish invaders spilled in 1974, in the process of ethnically cleansing the area from its Greek Cypriot indigenous inhabitants, before usurping it! The proper historical name of the place is called “Karavas,” and it comes from the Greek word “karavi” (sail boat) due to the existence of the ancient harbor of “Lambousa” that is situated on the coast, NW of Karavas and near Lapithos!

I hope flying Dutch has at least learned something today, about the real history of this country, from a “…Southern Cypriot,” as his “society” may probably wish to refer to us!
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Postby Nikitas » Tue May 20, 2008 3:43 am

Lambousa, an interesting place with an interesting history. When the Saracens attakced the inhabitants hid their valuable belongings with a view to coming back for them once the invaders left. And they did come back and they did recover their treasures, 300 years later.

Deniz, I am surprised at your comment, re serfdom and how the Ottomans delivered the serfs from their Venetian overlords. Everyone who was not a noble was a serf in those times. Remnants of serfdom are still to be found in the country you live in right now. Perhaps that is so because the British were not lucky enough to have been "freed"by the Ottomans!
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Postby denizaksulu » Tue May 20, 2008 8:56 am

Oracle wrote:Trust the Turks to revise history using Double-Dutch .... :lol:



Is that what you witnessed Oracle? I would have loved to have been there. It is an interesting period of Cyprus history. :lol:
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Re: Medieval Cyprus Society: reading in Alsancak

Postby denizaksulu » Tue May 20, 2008 9:06 am

Kifeas wrote:
dutch_crusader wrote:Medieval Cyprus Society (MCS) now meeting in Alsancak
===========================================================================

The recently-launched Medieval Cyprus Society (MCS) will hold its second meeting in

---> The Grumpy Grouse restaurant* at Alsancak (at 8.00 pm on Saturday, May 31).
---> * Located next to the King's Court Hotel (opposite the Denizkizi Hotel).


After a brief introduction about the aims of the society, founder Hans Doeleman will give an illustrated (pictures and
maps) introduction to the start of the Crusades movement and the important part that Cyprus played during
the Third Crusade and later:

--- Reason for and start of the Third Crusade, 1189-1192
--- Richard I (The Lionheart)'s conquest of Cyprus in 1191


And time permitting:

- Brief ownership of Cyprus by the Knights Templar
- The Lusignan period from 1192 until 1489, including the Mamluk and Genoese rule.
- Venetian annexation of Cyprus in 1489
- The Ottoman conquest of Cyprus in 1571

After the talk, there will be time for questions from the audience.

One of the next MCS activities will be several detailed tours of historic Famagusta.

Admission is free, but seating is limited, so you are encouraged to book a place directly with Hans Doeleman,
email only: [email protected] .

Or, if you don't have email, send a text message with your name to 0533 864 5433.

[ end ]


Did anyone ever explain to this jackass that the ownership of a place belongs only to the people that indigenously live and lived on it for centuries, and not to those foreigners that came and occupied it by force, or those that invade and ethnically cleanse its indegenous inhabitants in order to bring their own people from outside? I suppose his interest in medieval history is only due to his dream of taking us back to the dark ages of human existence, for only under this era he figured out he has a chance to "explain" and "justify" his illegitimacies!



Kifeas, with respect to what you say, at those times 'the owners' would be the ruling class. The serfs who toiled in the fields as 'Serfs' owned nothing.

The concept of which you talk about is a modern concept.

Regards
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Postby denizaksulu » Tue May 20, 2008 9:09 am

Rebel.Without.A.Pause wrote:
Yes there were but of no significance. You were merely serfs. You got your freedom under the generosity of the Ottomans. Deal with it.


How were Greeks of no significance if they were the overwhelming majority / indigenous people of the island?????

Generosity of the Ottomans? Did they use that generosity when they imposed heavy taxes and poverty??

The Ottomans aren't remembered for cruelty by Greeks, Arabs, Armenians, Assyrians, etc for no reason. Deal with it.



I agree they were an overwhelming majority. We are talking of the Medievel times here. Land , countries, pieces of rocks had a very different significance then. Nowadays it is different.
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Postby halil » Tue May 20, 2008 9:12 am

Cyprus History from Catholic Encyclopedia

Cyprus
An island in the Eastern Mediterranean, at the entrance of the Gulf of Alexandretta. It was originally inhabited by Phoenicians and Greeks, and was famous for its temples of Aphrodite. Though long autonomous, in the sixth century B.C. dominion over it was disputed by the Egyptians and the Persians, the latter ruling it till the invasion of Alexander the Great. From the Ptolemies of Egypt it passed to the Romans (59 B.C.). Despite Moslem invasions from the seventh to the tenth century, it remained a part of the Eastern Empire until the end of the twelfth. ln 1191 it was conquered by Richard the Lion-Hearted, who gave it to Guy de Lusignan, King of Jerusalem; in 1373 it fell to the Genoese, in 1489 to the Venetians. Finally, in 1571, it became Moslem territory under Sultan Selim II. In 1878 it was occupied by England and is now administered by an English high commissioner, assisted by a board of four English members (Statesman's Year Book, London, 1908). The island is hilly, with few rivers, and the climate is hot. Its once famous cities have perished; the chief towns are now Larnaca (the best port), Nicosia, and Limasol. Its area is 153,584 square miles. The population in 1901 was 237,000 (51,000 Mussulmans, 1100 Maronites, 850 Latins, 300 Armenians, a few Protestants and Jews, and the rest Greeks). It produces dates, carobs, oranges and other fruits, oil, wine, and corn. It has also sponge fisheries. Gypsum is mined there and copper mines were worked in ancient times. Christianity was successfully preached in Cyprus by St. Paul, St. Barnabas (a native of the island), and St. John Mark. At Paphos the magician Elymas was blinded and the Proconsul Sergius Paulus was converted (Acts 11:13-15). The Byzantine "Synaxaria" mention many saints, bishops, and martyrs of this early period, e.g. St. Lazarus, St. Heraclides, St. Nicanor (one of the first seven deacons), and others. In the fourth century we find two illustrious names, that of St. Spiridion, the shepherd Bishop of Trimithus, present at the Council of Nicaea in 325 with two other Cypriot bishops, whose relics were removed to Corfù in 1460, and that of St. Epiphanius (d. 403), Bishop of Salamis, the zealous adversary of all heresies and author of many valuable theological works. The Bishop of Salamis (later Constantia) was then metropolitan of the whole island, but was himself subject to the Patriarch of Antioch. During the Arian quarrels and the Eustathian schism, the Cypriote Church began to claim its independence. Pope Innocent I stood out for the rights of the Antiochene patriarch, Alexander I. However, it was not long before the Council of Ephesus (431) in its seventh session acknowledged the ecclesiastical independence of Cyprus: the cause was gained by the metropolitan, Rheginus, who was present at Ephesus with three of his suffragans. In 488 Peter the Dyer (Petrus Fullo), the famous Monophysite patriarch, made an effort to recover the ancient Antiochene jurisdiction over the island. During the conflict, however, the Cypriote metropolitan, Anthimus, claimed to have learned by a revelation that the site of the sepulchre of St. Barnabas was quite near his own city of Salamis; he found there the body of the Apostle with a copy of St. Matthew's Gospel, brought the relics to Constantinople, and presented them to the Emperor Zeno. Acacius of Constantinople decided in favour of Cyprus against Antioch, since which time the ecclesiastical independence (autocephalia) of the island has no more been called in question, the archbishop, known as exarch, ranking immediately after the five great patriarchs.

From the fifth to the twelfth century the following Archbishops of Constantia (Salamis) are worthy of note: Acadius, biographer of St. Symeon Stylites the Younger, and an uncompromising opponent of the Ecthesis of Heraclius (q.v.); Sergius, who condemned this document in a council and sent the pertinent decree to Pope Theodore I, but became afterwards infected with the very error he had formerly condemned; George, a defender of the holy images (icons); Constantine, who played a conspicuous part in their defence at the Second Nicene Council (787); Nicholas Muzalon, appointed Patriarch of Constantinople in 1147. Another remarkable prelate is St. Demetrianus, Bishop of Chytraea (ninth and tenth century). After the conquest of Cyprus by the Arabs, 632-647, the Christian population with its bishops emigrated to the mainland. Justinian II built for them, near the Hellespont, a city which he called Nea Justinianopolis; their archbishop enjoyed there the rights he had in Cyprus, besides exercising jurisdiction over the surrounding country (Quinisext Council, can. xxxix, 692). After the death of Justinian II the Cypriotes returned to their island with their hierarchy. Under Nicephorus Phocas (963-969) Cyprus was freed completely from the Arabs, who had sometimes treated it more kindly than the Byzantine emperors. Christianity, however, gained by the restoration. To this period belongs the foundation of three great monasteries, Our Lady of Pity (Eleusa) of Kykkos, Machaeras, and the Encleistra, the last founded in the twelfth century by the recluse Neophytus, author of several ascetical works. The Frankish rule, though at first accepted rather willingly, was finally the source of profound disturbance. In 1196 King Amaury obtained from Celestine III a Latin hierarchy for his kingdom: a resident archbishop was placed at Nicosia (Leucosia), with three suffragans at Paphos, Limasol (Temessos), and Famagusta (Ammochostos, formerly Arsinoe). Knights Templars, Carmelites, Dominicans, Franciscans, Augustinians, Benedictines, Cistercians, Carthusians, Regular Canons, Premonstratensian nuns soon had many flourishing monasteries. Splendid churches were built in the Gothic or ogival style, and many Greek churches were changed into Latin ones. Ecclesiastical revenues were assigned (in part) to the Latin clergy; the Greek clergy and the faithful were subordinated to Latin jurisdiction. In the execution of the decrees of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215) Cardinal Pelagius, legate of Innocent III, showed himself utterly intransigent. Thirteen refractory Greek monks were cruelly put to death. The Greek archbishop, Neophytus, was deposed and exiled, the Greek sees reduced to four, the bishops ordered to reside in small villages and obey the Latin archbishop (1220-1222). Innocent IV and Alexander IV were more favourable to the Greeks (Hergenröther-Kirsch, Kirchengesch., 4th ed., 1904, II, 726), and the Government often defended them against the Latins. The ecclesiastical history of Cyprus during this sad period is one of conflict between the two rival communions, the Greeks being always looked on as more or less schismatic both by the Latins and by the Greek Patriarch of Constantinople. An attempted union of the two Churches in 1405 did not succeed, nor was the Union of Florence (1439) more lasting. In 1489, through the abdication of Queen Caterina Cornaro, the island became subject to Venice, whose rule was even more intolerable to the Greeks, so that, as stated, in 1571 they welcomed the Turkish conquerors as true deliverers.
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Postby denizaksulu » Tue May 20, 2008 9:13 am

Rebel.Without.A.Pause wrote:
Yes there were but of no significance. You were merely serfs. You got your freedom under the generosity of the Ottomans. Deal with it.


How were Greeks of no significance if they were the overwhelming majority / indigenous people of the island?????

Generosity of the Ottomans? Did they use that generosity when they imposed heavy taxes and poverty??
The Ottomans aren't remembered for cruelty by Greeks, Arabs, Armenians, Assyrians, etc for no reason. Deal with it.



Can you show me any peoples who were ever happy with the taxes they paid. The Cypriot people were nothing under the Latin rule. You know that. Who by the way were your tax collectors? Who became as a result of your Bishops dishonesty, the richest land owner on the island?
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