Cyprus-Forum.com

[kafenes]

Eliko, is your theory based pre or post 1974. As you might have realised the war did change the character of the Cypriot.

[Eliko]

Nikitas, you are correct in assuming that my origins are in the Karpas region, my father was from Rizokarpaso.

kafenes, I would imagine that my 'theory' would have been more visible pre 1974, although if one spends a little time among those of the older generation, the said 'traits' are still quite apparent. (in my opinion).

Talisker, I did not respond to your last posting since I had logged off just prior to it's appearance.

I do indeed have a very low opinion of the efficacy of politicians, I would not describe my attitude towards them as disdainful since that would indicate that I consider them to be inferior to myself and of little consequence, such an assessment on my part would leave me open to accusations of arrogance and I would not wish to expose myself to such a reproach. (though in truth, I have been called an arrogant bastard on the odd occasion).

No, rather would I say that it is precisely because of THEIR disdain for the common people which causes me to regard them with such scant respect, they seem to have forgotten that they are the servants of the people and NOT the masters, once elected, their entire attitude seemingly changes and the true virtues of the politician (the ability to avoid the truth without actually embroiling themselves in a cauldron of lies) reveals itself.

Ah, but witness the scene when they ARE cornered, one lie will cover another until finally, a dignified withdrawal from office with the full support of those left behind, if it were not so obviously laughable, it would make you cry.

The vote has become a simple means of deciding which one of the scheming bastards will you select to find means of robbing you next.

Which gang of thieves and blackguards will next stir up discontent among the electorate to such an extent that the hatreds they have injected into the peoples minds will simmer nicely until the next round.

Observe them when they meet in their sumptuous appointments and listen to them discussing how they are about to relieve the poverty and starvation which THEY ( behind the scenes) have created.

Talisker, I think they are the scum of the earth, I make no apology for my opinion, I have seen them at work and at play and they fall far short of that which they are elected to do, serve the people.

Hoping the foregoing leaves you in little doubt, Best Wishes. Eliko.

[Talisker]

Miltiades , being his usual impeccable self and a considerate gentleman , but above all a Paphian wishes to bring to the attention of all concerned that he does not tolerate , and never has tolerated , fools easily . I have a sense of humor just as much as Eliko has with that obnoxious avatar of his.
Let me just say that the correct name of the village that gave birth to Miltiades , (and to the finest donkeys in Cyprus ) is not Stroumbi but Stroumbi the Great .
Let me also say a few words about the clan system in Cyprus .
My late father who was a well known master Tailor and a diabolical tavli player , belonged to what was then known the Father Spanos Clan , Spanos being the then local priest of my fathers village Theletra . Spanos was a man of very strong convictions and commanded the utmost respect of the villagers , but had a terrible temper and would explode with immense fury when faced with tribulations and misdemeanours .
I'm told he was rather fond of his wine which he produced himself , he died at the young age of 104 , my own grandad , also produced his own wine lived till the age of 98 , my own father who also loved his wine made it to 85 , so I suppose I , who also likes an odd glass or two would make it to about 80 !! They lived longer , I think as a result of the natural foods and preservative free wine coupled with the fresh air of the mountains.
The Spanos clan is very much alive in that part of Cyprus still today .

Miltiades, I enjoyed reading the information you posted on your home village, and your forefathers (your clan!). Sounds like you can look forward to a long retirement! Were your family influential within the village regarding local happenings during the years of troubles, and the earlier part of the last century? I'd imagine they were, if it is a family characteristic 'to not tolerate fools easily'.

Regards,
Talisker

[Talisker]

Talisker, I do indeed have a very low opinion of the efficacy of politicians, I would not describe my attitude towards them as disdainful since that would indicate that I consider them to be inferior to myself and of little consequence, such an assessment on my part would leave me open to accusations of arrogance and I would not wish to expose myself to such a reproach. (though in truth, I have been called an arrogant bastard on the odd occasion).

No, rather would I say that it is precisely because of THEIR disdain for the common people which causes me to regard them with such scant respect, they seem to have forgotten that they are the servants of the people and NOT the masters, once elected, their entire attitude seemingly changes and the true virtues of the politician (the ability to avoid the truth without actually embroiling themselves in a cauldron of lies) reveals itself.

Ah, but witness the scene when they ARE cornered, one lie will cover another until finally, a dignified withdrawal from office with the full support of those left behind, if it were not so obviously laughable, it would make you cry.

The vote has become a simple means of deciding which one of the scheming bastards will you select to find means of robbing you next.

Which gang of thieves and blackguards will next stir up discontent among the electorate to such an extent that the hatreds they have injected into the peoples minds will simmer nicely until the next round.

Observe them when they meet in their sumptuous appointments and listen to them discussing how they are about to relieve the poverty and starvation which THEY ( behind the scenes) have created.

Talisker, I think they are the scum of the earth, I make no apology for my opinion, I have seen them at work and at play and they fall far short of that which they are elected to do, serve the people.

Hoping the foregoing leaves you in little doubt, Best Wishes. Eliko.

Eliko, interesting views! I'm presuming (naively?) that most politicians actually have good intentions whilst young and not in positions of power, and once they attain that power they become more interested in protecting their own positions than seeing through the promises and ideals which originally got them elected? So, from your observations during your travels and work, does democracy actually work/deliver? Or, in practice, do (benevolent) dictatorships work just as well? Obviously we are all aware of situations where dictators have abused power, but your statements suggest democratically elected politicians are not much better...........

In many countries where there is a tribal (clan) system self-interest must be a major part of decision-making, and where democracy prevails minority tribes must be lacking in overall influence. In our news bulletins we hear about the worst extremes where the tribal/political system has resulted in warfare/genocide (e.g. Rwanda and Sudan). These issues seem to arise where there is a significant minority who want/need a voice - sounds like much of the discussion in the Cyprob section of this forum!

Whilst I'm asking you questions.........How important are the charities in mopping up after the politicians have messed up? For some reason the UK press often seem to cast doubt on the honesty/usefulness of many charity organisations working in third world countries, suggesting high levels of corruption and inefficiency. Is this just part of a system to bolster the role of the politician?

Your opinions/observations most welcome!

Regards,
Talisker

[miltiades]

Miltiades , being his usual impeccable self and a considerate gentleman , but above all a Paphian wishes to bring to the attention of all concerned that he does not tolerate , and never has tolerated , fools easily . I have a sense of humor just as much as Eliko has with that obnoxious avatar of his.
Let me just say that the correct name of the village that gave birth to Miltiades , (and to the finest donkeys in Cyprus ) is not Stroumbi but Stroumbi the Great .
Let me also say a few words about the clan system in Cyprus .
My late father who was a well known master Tailor and a diabolical tavli player , belonged to what was then known the Father Spanos Clan , Spanos being the then local priest of my fathers village Theletra . Spanos was a man of very strong convictions and commanded the utmost respect of the villagers , but had a terrible temper and would explode with immense fury when faced with tribulations and misdemeanours .
I'm told he was rather fond of his wine which he produced himself , he died at the young age of 104 , my own grandad , also produced his own wine lived till the age of 98 , my own father who also loved his wine made it to 85 , so I suppose I , who also likes an odd glass or two would make it to about 80 !! They lived longer , I think as a result of the natural foods and preservative free wine coupled with the fresh air of the mountains.
The Spanos clan is very much alive in that part of Cyprus still today .

Miltiades, I enjoyed reading the information you posted on your home village, and your forefathers (your clan!). Sounds like you can look forward to a long retirement! Were your family influential within the village regarding local happenings during the years of troubles, and the earlier part of the last century? I'd imagine they were, if it is a family characteristic 'to not tolerate fools easily'.
Indeed they were , my great grandfather , Spanos was the priest of the village and all those years back considered the "leader" of the village as was the case with all Cypriot villages . Strangely enough my late father started life as an atheist in view of his political convictions and communist ideals for which ideals he served a prison sentence , I mentioned this before , sharing a cell with Tefkros Anthias the famous Cypriot poet.
My late father subsequently renounced his communist convictions and also became very religious . He was well known and still remembered in that part of Paphos , he too could not tolerate fools easily but never swore and demanded that all around him refrained from using "bad language " He was very rigid in his views but time has proven him right in many respects. He was a firm supporter of the struggle against the British , but supported my self and my brother who both married English ladies , so he never had any grudges against the English . He was a master tailor and was commonly known as Mastre Mirtis , however his name is remembered not for his tailoring skills but by his tavli playing. There is a saying in quite a few villages when two are engaged in a game of tavli and one reaches 4 games , he is then reminded that " epien tsio mastre mirtis osta 4 , translated , Mastre Mirtis also reached 4 , meaning that he would never reach 5 and win the game !!!
I never got on with my late father during the latter part of his life. His rigidness and adherence to the past infuriated me and the fact that he could never appreciate what a lucky man he was to have had 4 children all well and out of trouble , 11 grandchildren all healthy and 6 great grand children. He died a miserable man never having come to terms with the death of my mother in the 1953 earthquake that destroyed the village.

His father , Tsioukkas , once reminded an English engineer who was sent to the village of Theletra in order to examine a for ever collapsing "bridge " that was the only means of reaching the village from the main road , the bridge would collapse whenever heavy rain occurred not only greatly unconvincing the villagers but on a number of occasions causing injury to those that happened to be crossing it at the time. The only alternative access was climbing the mountain to reach the village .
The English engineer examined the bridge and the area and pronounced that nothing could be done to make the bridge safer and less likely to collapse again. He was then reminded by my grandfather that if the English can build a bridge that rose to let ships sail under and closed to allow cars over would it be such a difficult task to build a bridge permanently positioned so as to allow the passing of donkeys over it !!


Regards,
Talisker

[miltiades]

Messed up the quotes here but Im sure you will understand it. !!

[Talisker]

Messed up the quotes here but Im sure you will understand it. !!

Yes, no problem in understanding and thanks for your interesting observations on your forefathers. I always understood Cypriot society was matriarchal (perhaps that's just what my wife tells me!), so did the women in your family have a major influence on decion-making.

Your story regarding tavli made me reminisce strongly for my father-in-law. He taught me to play in true Cypriot style, at breakneck pace with plenty of passion. I loved it, and really miss not playing since he died a few years ago. I can't stand playing people who play at snail's pace, considering every available option for minutes at a time. If I spent more than two seconds considering a move my father-in-law would play the move for me - so I learnt fast! He and I would spend hours playing, sometimes we must have been getting on for fifty games in a day! And it was always fantastic to win on the last throw of the dice at 4-4! My father-in-law would be furious for all of three seconds, then demand we start the next game immediately......he loved it too, all our games were competitive, but really good-humoured. I miss him.

[Eliko]

Talisker, I would agree that initially the intention of the newly elected representative of the people may have good intentions, unfortunately, as I see it, once they have settled in and have learned the ropes, the advantages available to them due to their now priviliged position become their paramount concern, few of them are able to make any radical changes since their popularity (among other members) would diminish should they be reluctant to conform with the opinions of their new peers.

I do believe that a newly elected member enters his/her new office completely oblivious of just what is actually expected of him/her and must immediately adopt the policies that already exist in the new environment.

Any ideas of making changes he/she may have will thus be seen to be an assault on that which is already established, they will not be tolerated and capitulation is the only option (other than resignation on principle).

I do believe that in most cases of ground-shaking decisions, such have been on the political back-burners for a considerable period of time PRIOR to their announcement and regardless of which party is in office, this ensures that for as much as the policies may be unpopular (unwanted) they WILL come to fruition.

A cursory glance through the annals of inter-governmental relationships will soon reveal an interesting fact, that he who is your enemy one day, may be your closest friend the next (and vice versa).

Currently, in many regions of the world, political chicanery has been revealed for what it truly is, a well rehearsed plan to impose 'Democracy' on other nations whether they like it or not, the manner in which elections have been gerrymandered and corrupted in order to gain power and establish 'Puppet Democracies' is a shameful example of just how the hierarchy of those that govern, are able to manipulate those they are sworn to truly serve.

That which we are ALLOWED to read in the press, coupled with that which other media sources reveal to us, can generally be taken with a pinch of salt (excuse the pun) and it SHOULD be obvious to all of us, unfortunately the old saying "if you throw enough mud at a wall, some of it is sure to stick" seems to fit the pistol nicely when it comes to foisting the nonsense we regard as 'News' upon us all.

As to the relief programmes, I am sure that those who are engaged in the distribution of food and equipment are truly dedicated to their humanitarian efforts in relieving suffering and despair, unfortunately, the very people who supply the relief and make such trumpetting announcements about their regard for the welfare of those who have become dependant upon them, are invariably allied to (or directly responsible for) the very hardships they now apply themselves to relieve.

Politics is a filthy business (in my opinion) and the objectives of some world leaders have become vividly apparent of recent times, Talisker, I DO hope I have managed to scratch the surface of an evil that is permeating the lives of us all, I have never met an ordinary person who does not wish to live in peace, I have never met a politician that could not find a reason for war.

You will of course notice, it is never THEY that actually take up arms against their invented foe.

Respect.

[miltiades]

Messed up the quotes here but Im sure you will understand it. !!

Yes, no problem in understanding and thanks for your interesting observations on your forefathers. I always understood Cypriot society was matriarchal (perhaps that's just what my wife tells me!), so did the women in your family have a major influence on decion-making.

Your story regarding tavli made me reminisce strongly for my father-in-law. He taught me to play in true Cypriot style, at breakneck pace with plenty of passion. I loved it, and really miss not playing since he died a few years ago. I can't stand playing people who play at snail's pace, considering every available option for minutes at a time. If I spent more than two seconds considering a move my father-in-law would play the move for me - so I learnt fast! He and I would spend hours playing, sometimes we must have been getting on for fifty games in a day! And it was always fantastic to win on the last throw of the dice at 4-4! My father-in-law would be furious for all of three seconds, then demand we start the next game immediately......he loved it too, all our games were competitive, but really good-humoured. I miss him.

There is certainly something to be said for our forefathers way of life and above all how committed to their good name and that of their family's they were. The biggest by far insult to levy on any one was "Paliathropos "
, Bad Man !! , yet such an insult was indicative of the man's entire actions .
I'm sure it is still applicable today where a gentleman would simply be referred to as "En athropos " He is a man !!
Many years ago I visited Theletra , the old village , and on arriving at the coffee shop I witnessed a commotion going on , a villager was fuming and shouting that some one had stolen a green pepper from his plant , I heard him say " Emetrisa ta piperoudkia to proin dio voles tchitan 6 , tora 5 eminan .

[Talisker]

Politics is a filthy business (in my opinion) and the objectives of some world leaders have become vividly apparent of recent times, Talisker, I DO hope I have managed to scratch the surface of an evil that is permeating the lives of us all, I have never met an ordinary person who does not wish to live in peace, I have never met a politician that could not find a reason for war.

Eliko, what I really object to is the 'career politician' - someone who has never lived a 'real' life, aspires only to power and manipulating the masses, whether for their own financial gain but often I suspect to satisfy an over-inflated ego.

I agree, politics at any level, be it international, national, local, work, even family, can be a filthy business - but we all have to deal with it!

Thanks for your insights.

Regards,
Talisker