Cyprus-Forum.com

[boomerang]

Our side is not considered as negative. Pres X has done a very good job so far in pushing for peace and before too long you will see Turkey itself back on the guilty stand.

The year 2009 is fast approaching, and I for one will be enjoying the entertainment.

I agree that your current leader is more positive but he has a reject of a UN plan and 5 years of negative viewpoint to cover up or reverse, the world sees that the GCs rejected the last attempt at a solution.

Turkey is now the positive side as they always have stated they are ready when the GCs are and will always be one stop ahead. Lets see what will develop in 2008/9 the GCs are under just as much pressure form the EU to take a more European attitude than they have been doing so since they joined.

How long do you think this will last for? Maybe up until the Gambari process fails due to unrealistic demands by Turkey.

We will see but lets hope the momentum will be used positively this time to full effect to achieve a fair deal, why do you not consider that the GCs may also show that their demands are unrealistic in light of our past history.

Because today we are far from the realities of what occured in the 50s and early 60s. No one wants that any more, and it will not as long as a fair and viable solution is founded. Any solution that is unfair (Annan Plan as an example) would have eventually led to exactly what you fear.

You should understand also that many friendships are being formed between GCs and TCs through this forum. Many GCs and TCs are now arranging for social events, and so it is inconceivable that anything untoward can occur amongst friends, especially when the solution is equitable.

I feel you are being slightly naive people on both sides have been interacting for the last 5 years and we are no closer to a solution that we have ever been, theres noting wrong with people on a one to one basis, the problem is the political balance which is the major stumbling block to any solution.

The TCs still have a major barrier in trusting the GCs who still feel they are being greatly influenced by the Church and your education system which supports hate for the Turks and anything Turkish which includes us.

You are right not enough water passed under the bridge lets wait a few more years...


In the meantime comes 2009 "turkey=fascists state" gets booted out of the EU...

[Paphitis]

Our side is not considered as negative. Pres X has done a very good job so far in pushing for peace and before too long you will see Turkey itself back on the guilty stand.

The year 2009 is fast approaching, and I for one will be enjoying the entertainment.

I agree that your current leader is more positive but he has a reject of a UN plan and 5 years of negative viewpoint to cover up or reverse, the world sees that the GCs rejected the last attempt at a solution.

Turkey is now the positive side as they always have stated they are ready when the GCs are and will always be one stop ahead. Lets see what will develop in 2008/9 the GCs are under just as much pressure form the EU to take a more European attitude than they have been doing so since they joined.

How long do you think this will last for? Maybe up until the Gambari process fails due to unrealistic demands by Turkey.

We will see but lets hope the momentum will be used positively this time to full effect to achieve a fair deal, why do you not consider that the GCs may also show that their demands are unrealistic in light of our past history.

Because today we are far from the realities of what occured in the 50s and early 60s. No one wants that any more, and it will not as long as a fair and viable solution is founded. Any solution that is unfair (Annan Plan as an example) would have eventually led to exactly what you fear.

You should understand also that many friendships are being formed between GCs and TCs through this forum. Many GCs and TCs are now arranging for social events, and so it is inconceivable that anything untoward can occur amongst friends, especially when the solution is equitable.

I feel you are being slightly naive people on both sides have been interacting for the last 5 years and we are no closer to a solution that we have ever been, theres noting wrong with people on a one to one basis, the problem is the political balance which is the major stumbling block to any solution.

The TCs still have a major barrier in trusting the GCs who still feel they are being greatly influenced by the Church and your education system which supports hate for the Turks and anything Turkish which includes us.

But we have Miltiades who loves you so. As for hating the TCs, well I can tell you that most do not.

I hate Turkey who has invaded my country and forbids my in laws from enjoying their home town and their house which they still have legal title over. I also hate them for ethnically cleansing 200,000 people from their rightful homes. This is only natural.

As for the TCs, I love you all, except for Eric.

[Paphitis]

That is not true, I do not hate Eric anymore as he keeps Miltiades occupied.

Seriously, when is Eric coming back? We need him.

[miltiades]

A partitionist is someone who agrees with the Status Quo - I DON'T.

I agree with an "Agreed" formula to remove Turkey out of the Cyprus equation, where the only way of doing so is to give the Turkish Cypriot what they want, thus forcing Turkey out of the equation at the same time, AND - ON OUR TERMS!

- No Morphu
- No Varosha
- No Buffer Zone
- And, no Turkish rights of Intervention according to our constitution.

You all must realise that our PRESENT constitution still gives TURKEY the right of intervention!

A solution is a must, but please back-up and think about the entire scope of what you imply, as clearly you dismiss the court-room side of the Cyprus issue.

We have the chance to seal the Cyprus issue once and for all. Failure to do that this time will be a major setback for the entire island and not only us. A "NO" from us again in a future referendum will surely LEGALLY split the island with a 37% Recognised Turkish NORTH.

Both, the us and the Turksih Cypriots will lose!

This reality you all must understand.

Why will the TCs lose if GCs do not agree another solution and recognition is the only way to resolve a hot potato in the laps of the "Europeans".

Dream on. There will be no agreed partition. We will not legitimise your illegal actions. Fullstop.

If you are confident that you can do this for the next 100 years and reject every solution that the international arena place on the table then good luck.

I do not see any solutions forth coming from the international arena. Annan Plan was one of a kind and it was rejected. Cypriots are responsible to forge their own solution.

The GCs will never legitimise your gains. So unless the "trnc" starts getting serious and compromise for a fair and viable solution, then the status quo will remain for many more years to come, until of course.....................................................................I do not need to spell it out as I fear causing Miltiades a stroke.

We have and are willing to continue as is until or if something better should come along. I cannot see the UN or the EU forcing the TCs to do anything against our will so the ball is really in your court to provide something better than the current situation, otherwise I agree the status quo will continue for a long time over which you will have to work very hard to stop developments that will reduce or even remove the isolation of the TCs viewed by many to be in the EU. The choice is yours.

Miltiades, I invite YOU to reply to this post against an individual who is capitalising on our losses. This person obviously believes that might is right and will await for something better to come along!

I would like to know what that "something better" could possibly be.

The first criteria to be considered by the G/Cs is this : DO the T/Cs have as much right to be in Cyprus as the G/Cs have , if affirmative then what changes to our general outlook do we encompass in order to show our willingness to live as one people.
The T/Cs on the other hand have to accept that no national of any nation on earth is likely to accept that part of his nation is under occupation by a foreign country and will remain so indefinitely. History teaches us that the day inevitably arrives when the situation gets out of control .
Turkey invaded Cyprus in order to avert what she saw as efforts to unite Cyprus to Greece. She can not expect the people of Cyprus to accept that she has the right to remain in Cyprus for ever and a the same time to systematically alter the local demographics .
In short , both the G/Cs and The T/Cs must face realities.
There are two irrefutable realities. First the T/Cs have as much right to call Cyprus their country just as the G/Cs have and second the T/Cs can not possibly deny the fact that the majority of Cypriots are G/Cs. Like it or not the T/Cs are a minority as T/Cs but a majority as Cypriots.
Until they also begin to disentangle themselves from Turkeys aprons there will always be that issue of minorities and majorities.
Cyprus is part of Turkey and neither is she a part of Greece.Accept and negotiate and live peacefully for ever. Reject and conflicts will erupt again and again. Get rid of the f..ng flags from the mountains of Cyprus that only serve the division and the retention of mistrust amongst our people.

There you go VP, how can you refuse such an offer? That is if you can understand the post.

Miltiades, can you please explain to us what changes we need to make to convince VP that we can live together as one people and then we can ask VP if he agrees.

First and foremost we G/Cs have to accept that the RoC IS RECOGNISED THE WORLD OVER AS AN INDEPENDENT NATION NOT AS GREEK ISLAND .
When we begin to embrace our indisputable ethnicity , stop denigrating the Cypriot nationality as we do now , remember that our passports and IDs do not separate us as G/Cs or T/Cs . Let us actively encourage our community to fly the flag of Cyprus and not the foreign Greek flag.
The T/Cs also must reciprocate when we start showing them that we are an independent nation made of of G/Cs , T/Cs , Armenians and of lately many more .
I don't see why the RoC has not replaced the Greek national anthem with our own anthem that would also embrace the other Cypriots .
Let us get our house in order first , lets paint our own "house" in the colours of Cyprus then we can demand of the T/Cs that they join us or join Turkey.
Our island has its own international image , let us convince the world that what we preach to them we also do . On one hand we sit back and revel in the fact that the International community recognises only the RoC which is the only legal entity representing the people of Cyprus , on the other we fly the bloody Greek flat and put two fingers up at the T/Cs.

LONG LIVE CYPRUS AND ALL CYPRIOTS , FOREIGN MOTHERLAND BULLSHITERS PISS OFF !!

[Viewpoint]

Paphitis

But we have Miltiades who loves you so. As for hating the TCs, well I can tell you that most do not.

I hate Turkey who has invaded my country and forbids my in laws from enjoying their home town and their house which they still have legal title over. I also hate them for ethnically cleansing 200,000 people from their rightful homes. This is only natural.

As for the TCs, I love you all, except for Eric.

For us the table is reversed when it comes to Turkey, we view them as our saviours and only ally. This impression and belief is very much encouraged by your own negative stance towards the north and allowing us to develop under more normal conditions.

TCs in general do not hate GCs they believ e they have just as much roght on this island as us but unfortunately we have been unable ot turn the country as whole together, our only success has been divided.

You may try to avoid my previous comments but it stands that your church is still very influential and education system have brain washed many of you into hating the other side, I do not believe we have the same problem.

[boomerang]

For us the table is reversed when it comes to Turkey, we view them as our saviours and only ally

Don't tell fibs vips...you see them as your cash cow...

That's why everytime they want something done they blackmail you with money...and you do as they say, coz you loooooooooooooooooooooove the money...

If yoiu saw them as your saviour and your ally you wouldn't stand in the way of their EU aspirations...

[Paphitis]

Paphitis

But we have Miltiades who loves you so. As for hating the TCs, well I can tell you that most do not.

I hate Turkey who has invaded my country and forbids my in laws from enjoying their home town and their house which they still have legal title over. I also hate them for ethnically cleansing 200,000 people from their rightful homes. This is only natural.

As for the TCs, I love you all, except for Eric.

For us the table is reversed when it comes to Turkey, we view them as our saviours and only ally. This impression and belief is very much encouraged by your own negative stance towards the north and allowing us to develop under more normal conditions.

TCs in general do not hate GCs they believ e they have just as much roght on this island as us but unfortunately we have been unable ot turn the country as whole together, our only success has been divided.

You may try to avoid my previous comments but it stands that your church is still very influential and education system have brain washed many of you into hating the other side, I do not believe we have the same problem.

And neither do we. Hate is a very powerful word and I am offended that you believe that GCs have been brainwashed into hating TCs. Personally, I do not give a dam about the church, to my wife's disgust, and hold it in great contempt as I believe I have too much self respect to conform to religious brain washing and I do not fear death.

Also, most people today are ever increasingly more liberal, and if you made an effort to get to know some GCs today you would be pleasantly surprised that they would be hospitable to you and do not hate you.

Now, Miltiades posted what he believes would win your trust and the trust of most TCs. What say you? Is Miltiades VISION enough to obtain your trust? Or do you want more?

[Andros]

Paphitis,

The point I am trying to make here regarding partition and "making your actions legal" etc, etc, is that we will one have no choice in the matter if we do not force an agreed solution soon. I know from very reliable Greek Cypriot government sources that if Papadopoulos had won the Presidential election, the Turkish Cypriots would have probably have gained some legal form of recognition by now! IN ITS PRESENT FORM!!!!

It's its PRESENT FORM which is what I am discussing here.

We must realise our limits here, where throwing comment about the events of 1974 have been washed and clean now a thousand times over, as Turkey would have been forcefully removed from Cyprus like Iraq was from Kuwait if the international community had not in some way wanted it to happen!!!

Turkey's actions in 1974 are obviously acceptable to many in the international community, where even the idea of having Turkey as a negotiator and still a major player in the new Cyprus Peace process is consider laughable. Can you image Saddam Hussein sitting around a table to discuss a unification plan of so-called Iraqi-Kuwait's and Kuwait's!!!! Does not make sense right?

In reality, the best plan we could possible achieve is one that centres on what we can achieve - not one that we dream of. We need to Get Real here!

[Paphitis]

Paphitis,

The point I am trying to make here regarding partition and "making your actions legal" etc, etc, is that we will one have no choice in the matter if we do not force an agreed solution soon. I know from very reliable Greek Cypriot government sources that if Papadopoulos had won the Presidential election, the Turkish Cypriots would have probably have gained some legal form of recognition by now! IN ITS PRESENT FORM!!!!

It's its PRESENT FORM which is what I am discussing here.

We must realise our limits here, where throwing comment about the events of 1974 have been washed and clean now a thousand times over, as Turkey would have been forcefully removed from Cyprus like Iraq was from Kuwait if the international community had not in some way wanted it to happen!!!

Turkey's actions in 1974 are obviously acceptable to many in the international community, where even the idea of having Turkey as a negotiator and still a major player in the new Cyprus Peace process is consider laughable. Can you image Saddam Hussein sitting around a table to discuss a unification plan of so-called Iraqi-Kuwait's and Kuwait's!!!! Does not make sense right?

In reality, the best plan we could possible achieve is one that centres on what we can achieve - not one that we dream of. We need to Get Real here!

You are a misguided individual and I do not want you to take it the wrong way. Partition and legitimising the invasion and occupation is a non starter. What you are proposing is to legitimise the current status quo, and if any Cypriot does that, I will never call myself a Cypriot again.

Either we have a fair and viable solution or the status quo will remain until we are ready to take additional action of a non diplomatic nature. A scenario that you call unrealistic but I do not.

[boomerang]

Paphitis,

The point I am trying to make here regarding partition and "making your actions legal" etc, etc, is that we will one have no choice in the matter if we do not force an agreed solution soon. I know from very reliable Greek Cypriot government sources that if Papadopoulos had won the Presidential election, the Turkish Cypriots would have probably have gained some legal form of recognition by now! IN ITS PRESENT FORM!!!!

It's its PRESENT FORM which is what I am discussing here.

We must realise our limits here, where throwing comment about the events of 1974 have been washed and clean now a thousand times over, as Turkey would have been forcefully removed from Cyprus like Iraq was from Kuwait if the international community had not in some way wanted it to happen!!!

Turkey's actions in 1974 are obviously acceptable to many in the international community, where even the idea of having Turkey as a negotiator and still a major player in the new Cyprus Peace process is consider laughable. Can you image Saddam Hussein sitting around a table to discuss a unification plan of so-called Iraqi-Kuwait's and Kuwait's!!!! Does not make sense right?

In reality, the best plan we could possible achieve is one that centres on what we can achieve - not one that we dream of. We need to Get Real here!

Using your logic, even with an agreed partition, nothing will stop the fascist state from pushing forward...I say this coz many tcs will move to the gc sector, as they will not put up with fascism...This will escalate new fronts...

Ask the tcs if they want to be annexed...prior you making theses claims...

Agreed partition=annexation...

The last poll carried in the occupied showed 40% do not want a 2 state solution...the other 60% was made up of grey wolves and settlers...what does tat tell you...

It tells me, if in case of a 2 state solution these 40% will move to the South...