Cyprus-Forum.com

[Oracle]

Looking through this thread this morning, is like surveying the house after a late-night party, when all the guests have gone and you are just left with the mess and the noise of the merriment is still ringing in your ears.

The sterility and painful peace after the holocaust ....

[miltiades]

Neither, they both promote the stripping of the national identity of the two Cypriot communities, which is not only impossible but also dangerous

The national identity shown on my Cyprus ID is CYPRIOT .
Cant you see that by accepting that the people of Cyprus are primarily Cypriots than either Greek Cypriots or Turkish Cypriots.
I have never suggested that the G/Cs or the T/Cs should drop the G or the T , but advocated and still very much do the promotion of the Cypriot identity , one identity that we can reasonably "demand" that the T/C community also adapt , we can never " demand" that they accept the identity of G/C , but the Cypriot identity which has been in existence for more than 7 thousand years can be promoted as a unifying force amongst all the people of Cyprus. What binds me with so many of my T/C compatriots is the fact that they share this inevitably correct definition of the people of Cyprus and that is they are Cypriots , the most important ideal that can unite our people and can bring a solution for the sake of the future generations to come.

[alexISS]

Neither, they both promote the stripping of the national identity of the two Cypriot communities, which is not only impossible but also dangerous

The national identity shown on my Cyprus ID is CYPRIOT .
Cant you see that by accepting that the people of Cyprus are primarily Cypriots than either Greek Cypriots or Turkish Cypriots.
I have never suggested that the G/Cs or the T/Cs should drop the G or the T , but advocated and still very much do the promotion of the Cypriot identity , one identity that we can reasonably "demand" that the T/C community also adapt , we can never " demand" that they accept the identity of G/C , but the Cypriot identity which has been in existence for more than 7 thousand years can be promoted as a unifying force amongst all the people of Cyprus. What binds me with so many of my T/C compatriots is the fact that they share this inevitably correct definition of the people of Cyprus and that is they are Cypriots , the most important ideal that can unite our people and can bring a solution for the sake of the future generations to come.

To me and to any Greek mainlander, the Cypriot culture is no less Greek than the culture of, say, Rhodes or Crete. The people there have as many cultural differences from the "average" Greek as the Cypriots: few. Of course the two Cypriot cultures can and must live together in peace as one people, but the way to achieve this is not to instruct them to stop being Greek or Turkish because they are. Greek Cypriots will always be speaking Greek, listening to Greek music, receiving Greek education and feel close to all other Greeks in the world. Exactly the same is valid for the Turkish Cypriots. I understand that many see the affiliation with "motherlands" as the root of all evil, but it's not the 60s anymore. Greece and Turkey have already gotten over their bitter past and have much friendlier relations than those between GCs and TCs, so in my opinion Cypriots should follow their example rather than try to "mutate" into something they are not

[miltiades]

Neither, they both promote the stripping of the national identity of the two Cypriot communities, which is not only impossible but also dangerous

The national identity shown on my Cyprus ID is CYPRIOT .
Cant you see that by accepting that the people of Cyprus are primarily Cypriots than either Greek Cypriots or Turkish Cypriots.
I have never suggested that the G/Cs or the T/Cs should drop the G or the T , but advocated and still very much do the promotion of the Cypriot identity , one identity that we can reasonably "demand" that the T/C community also adapt , we can never " demand" that they accept the identity of G/C , but the Cypriot identity which has been in existence for more than 7 thousand years can be promoted as a unifying force amongst all the people of Cyprus. What binds me with so many of my T/C compatriots is the fact that they share this inevitably correct definition of the people of Cyprus and that is they are Cypriots , the most important ideal that can unite our people and can bring a solution for the sake of the future generations to come.

To me and to any Greek mainlander, the Cypriot culture is no less Greek than the culture of, say, Rhodes or Crete. The people there have as many cultural differences from the "average" Greek as the Cypriots: few. Of course the two Cypriot cultures can and must live together in peace as one people, but the way to achieve this is not to instruct them to stop being Greek or Turkish because they are. Greek Cypriots will always be speaking Greek, listening to Greek music, receiving Greek education and feel close to all other Greeks in the world. Exactly the same is valid for the Turkish Cypriots. I understand that many see the affiliation with "motherlands" as the root of all evil, but it's not the 60s anymore. Greece and Turkey have already gotten over their bitter past and have much friendlier relations than those between GCs and TCs, so in my opinion Cypriots should follow their example rather than try to "mutate" into something they are not

There are also correlated cultures such as the American , Canadian , New Zealand , Australia , Brittain and many more such related cultures , sharing language , religion , music and much more.
Each nation has its unique identity and promotes its own national interests. The national interests of Cyprus cover all communities , it does not exclude one to the detriment of the other . Do I deny my identity and that of my forefathers by calling my self a Greek Cypriot as against a Greek by embracing my nations identity ? Of course not . I listen to Greek Music just as my English wife listens to Madonna , it does not make my wife American by listening to American music and speaking the same language as the Americans.
I'm proud of my Cypriot background , I'm not a Greek from Rhodes Crete or from anywhere else in Greece. Connected via language , religion , some history yes , but a Cypriot above all.

[Get Real!]

So what does the winner get a pseudo state in Paphos?

[RichardB]

So what does the winner get a pseudo state in Paphos?

No the brits have already got that

kalimera young man

[alexISS]

There are also correlated cultures such as the American , Canadian , New Zealand , Australia , Brittain and many more such related cultures , sharing language , religion , music and much more.
Each nation has its unique identity and promotes its own national interests. The national interests of Cyprus cover all communities , it does not exclude one to the detriment of the other . Do I deny my identity and that of my forefathers by calling my self a Greek Cypriot as against a Greek by embracing my nations identity ? Of course not . I listen to Greek Music just as my English wife listens to Madonna , it does not make my wife American by listening to American music and speaking the same language as the Americans.
I'm proud of my Cypriot background , I'm not a Greek from Rhodes Crete or from anywhere else in Greece. Connected via language , religion , some history yes , but a Cypriot above all.

Greece and Cyprus are nothing like Australia and America. The English language is widespread and spoken by people of totally different cultures, the Greek Cypriots do not just share the same language with the Greeks, in the end no matter what we say it's them who decide and they say they are as Greek (if not more) than the Greeks of Greece. Telling them they should "piss of to f...ing Greece" is not going to bring peace to Cyprus, it's just another arrogant attempt of a minority to have it their way

[Simon]

I voted for GR, not because I share his views on purging the "Greek" from the "Cypriot", but because I believe that we would be incredibly naive to completely remove any military option off the table. Our country is under occupation and one of the basic fundamental human rights is to fight for justice. However, I do believe that a peaceful solution should be completely exhausted first. In the meantime, we must prepare in case war is the only option left. Geo-political circumstances change all the time; Turkey may not always have the upper-hand, and we must prepare in case a dramatic change in the balance of power occurs. Further, it is certainly not impossible for Greece to assist Cyprus, and defeat Turkey. It is clear to me that many people on this forum do not have a clue about military strategy. While I would make Turkey the favourite in a war with Greece based on its sheer numbers alone; with astute tactics and clever manoeuvring, Greece could easily defeat Turkey. Greece has the hardware, its Air Force is just as technologically advanced as Turkey's. Greek pilots often come out on top against the Turkish pilots in the dogfights over the Aegean. Greece has a capable Navy, with Submarines and Frigates. Greece has a substantial Army, with more firepower than Turkey. Greece has accumulated more firepower in order to attempt to counter Turkey's numerical advantage.

Where I do disagree with GR is that I do believe it would be impossible for the National Guard to defeat Turkey and remove it completely from Cyprus on its own. It would have to have outside support to prevent the Turkish Navy getting supplies to Cyprus and to negate the Turkish air superiority.

AlexISS I agree with you.

[Paphitis]

I voted for GR, not because I share his views on purging the "Greek" from the "Cypriot", but because I believe that we would be incredibly naive to completely remove any military option off the table. Our country is under occupation and one of the basic fundamental human rights is to fight for justice. However, I do believe that a peaceful solution should be completely exhausted first. In the meantime, we must prepare in case war is the only option left. Geo-political circumstances change all the time; Turkey may not always have the upper-hand, and we must prepare in case a dramatic change in the balance of power occurs. Further, it is certainly not impossible for Greece to assist Cyprus, and defeat Turkey. It is clear to me that many people on this forum do not have a clue about military strategy. While I would make Turkey the favourite in a war with Greece based on its sheer numbers alone; with astute tactics and clever manoeuvring, Greece could easily defeat Turkey. Greece has the hardware, its Air Force is just as technologically advanced as Turkey's. Greek pilots often come out on top against the Turkish pilots in the dogfights over the Aegean. Greece has a capable Navy, with Submarines and Frigates. Greece has a substantial Army, with more firepower than Turkey. Greece has accumulated more firepower in order to attempt to counter Turkey's numerical advantage.

AlexISS I agree with you.

Well I agree 100% with the view expressed by Simon and GR has my vote purely for the exact same reasons mentioned above, even though I sometimes get upset with GR for his anti hellenism. I can understand him though for his stance as Greece did abandon us in 74. We must remember that Greece was suffering under the brutal and CIA sponsored Junta at the time and the events of 74 were staged by the CIA who were holding the strings to both Greece and Turkey. We were the victims of a massive injustice becaused it served the interests of NATO and the USA.

[Get Real!]

My dream for Cyprus has always been for a modern Democratic EU country for which I started a thread some time ago, and expressed this on countless occasions.

The “Why partition is not possible” thread I recently started, was to explore the possibility of a military confrontation as a last resort and I honestly don’t believe that it’s impossible for Cyprus to be liberated even with no outside military support, but at the right moment and via the right plan, always with clear and attainable objectives.

I do not hate Greece but feel disappointed with her for obvious reasons, but I have since moved on mentally, and am now very happy that Cyprus has gone from being a very dependant and fragile island to a world class competing country.

Finally, Miltiades cleverly chose to initiate this poll while I was exploring the military confrontation and has thus exploited the moment to portray me as a “war monger” but I’m sure that the wiser members of the forum know exactly what each of us stands for without getting influenced by Miltiades’ opportunistic attempt at aggrandizement.

In all honesty, I wouldn’t have a clue what Miltiades stands for… time hasn’t answered this question for me because I’ve observed him promote a conflicting variety of things from Cypriotism to American imperialism, and a whole bunch of things in-between, so I am at a loss…

But anyway, I know EXACTLY what I believe in including my willingness to march to Kyrenia and Apostolos Andreas, if and when necessary.

Regards, GR.