Cyprus-Forum.com

[BirKibrisli]

Remember the Yavuz? Flagship of the Turkish navy which got itself stuck in a sand bar within Greek territorial waters in Kos and had to be unstuck by Greek tugs?

Is this the superior training that Purdey is talking about? Remember the Kocatepe in 1974 when the superbly trained Turkish air force, supposedly the best in Nato, sank the ship and damaged two others, killing 200 sailors?

Remember the self inflicted casualties by shells that fell short in Kyrenia?

These incidents prove that the Turkish armed forces make the same blunders as all armies and like all armies they can be defeated. War is a business and the most agile and fast acting can win. The problem is that military guys the world over are neither agile nor fast thinkers. Just listen to how they talk and the language they use, these guys cannot even speak properly! And I am talking about ALL military people.

How do we define victory in such a conflict? There are many scenarios that can be interpreted as victorious be each side. But no matter what the outcome, the infliction of notable losses on the Turkish armed forces will force a change in Turkey itself and the status of the army in the state setup. Just think of a situation where the Turkish army is held at bay by the National Guard which they regard with contempt, or the loss of 50 planes in a couple of days. It would be a great chance for the politicians to oust the military once and for all. But in the end it will be the small guys that suffer so that the big guys can benefit.

I truly have no idea how well trained and equipped the Turkish Army really is...I know that in 74 they made some major boo boos with loss of lives etc as you point out,Nikitas...

But I am certain of one thing....NOTHING will shake the trust and respect the Turkish people have in their army....No amount of misfortune will result in the Army losing its influence on Turkish society...

Believe me,you do not want to be fighting another war with Turkey now...
Or ever...Back in 1916,or thereabouts,when the Allied forces were threatening to overrun the Ottoman positions on the Dardanells,their commander,someone called Mustafa Kemal, gave this order : "I am not ordering you to attack....I am Ordering you to die...In the time it takes for us to die,others will come and replace us...." This mentality changed little over the years. If anything it has been strengthened....A hot conflict with Turkey would be nothing less than mindless suicide...I understand that desperation make people do silly things,but another war now must never be contemplated...Such talk as you are engaged in here only serves to scare the pants off the TCs and drive them further into Turkey's arms...Please listen carefully to my dear compatriot Miltiades' wise words...The answer to our little problem lies in cultivating our Cypriotness in a peaceful and determined manner...When we are all Cypriots first,there will no longer be the problem of majority or minority,us and them etc...That will be the end of the Cyprus problem as we know it...

[unitedwestand]

Remember the Yavuz? Flagship of the Turkish navy which got itself stuck in a sand bar within Greek territorial waters in Kos and had to be unstuck by Greek tugs?

Is this the superior training that Purdey is talking about? Remember the Kocatepe in 1974 when the superbly trained Turkish air force, supposedly the best in Nato, sank the ship and damaged two others, killing 200 sailors?

Remember the self inflicted casualties by shells that fell short in Kyrenia?

These incidents prove that the Turkish armed forces make the same blunders as all armies and like all armies they can be defeated. War is a business and the most agile and fast acting can win. The problem is that military guys the world over are neither agile nor fast thinkers. Just listen to how they talk and the language they use, these guys cannot even speak properly! And I am talking about ALL military people.

How do we define victory in such a conflict? There are many scenarios that can be interpreted as victorious be each side. But no matter what the outcome, the infliction of notable losses on the Turkish armed forces will force a change in Turkey itself and the status of the army in the state setup. Just think of a situation where the Turkish army is held at bay by the National Guard which they regard with contempt, or the loss of 50 planes in a couple of days. It would be a great chance for the politicians to oust the military once and for all. But in the end it will be the small guys that suffer so that the big guys can benefit.

I truly have no idea how well trained and equipped the Turkish Army really is...I know that in 74 they made some major boo boos with loss of lives etc as you point out,Nikitas...

But I am certain of one thing....NOTHING will shake the trust and respect the Turkish people have in their army....No amount of misfortune will result in the Army losing its influence on Turkish society...

Believe me,you do not want to be fighting another war with Turkey now...
Or ever...Back in 1916,or thereabouts,when the Allied forces were threatening to overrun the Ottoman positions on the Dardanells,their commander,someone called Mustafa Kemal, gave this order : "I am not ordering you to attack....I am Ordering you to die...In the time it takes for us to die,others will come and replace us...." This mentality changed little over the years. If anything it has been strengthened....A hot conflict with Turkey would be nothing less than mindless suicide...I understand that desperation make people do silly things,but another war now must never be contemplated...Such talk as you are engaged in here only serves to scare the pants off the TCs and drive them further into Turkey's arms...Please listen carefully to my dear compatriot Miltiades' wise words...The answer to our little problem lies in cultivating our Cypriotness in a peaceful and determined manner...When we are all Cypriots first,there will no longer be the problem of majority or minority,us and them etc...That will be the end of the Cyprus problem as we know it...

[denizaksulu]

Remember the Yavuz? Flagship of the Turkish navy which got itself stuck in a sand bar within Greek territorial waters in Kos and had to be unstuck by Greek tugs?

Is this the superior training that Purdey is talking about? Remember the Kocatepe in 1974 when the superbly trained Turkish air force, supposedly the best in Nato, sank the ship and damaged two others, killing 200 sailors?

Remember the self inflicted casualties by shells that fell short in Kyrenia?

These incidents prove that the Turkish armed forces make the same blunders as all armies and like all armies they can be defeated. War is a business and the most agile and fast acting can win. The problem is that military guys the world over are neither agile nor fast thinkers. Just listen to how they talk and the language they use, these guys cannot even speak properly! And I am talking about ALL military people.

How do we define victory in such a conflict? There are many scenarios that can be interpreted as victorious be each side. But no matter what the outcome, the infliction of notable losses on the Turkish armed forces will force a change in Turkey itself and the status of the army in the state setup. Just think of a situation where the Turkish army is held at bay by the National Guard which they regard with contempt, or the loss of 50 planes in a couple of days. It would be a great chance for the politicians to oust the military once and for all. But in the end it will be the small guys that suffer so that the big guys can benefit.

I truly have no idea how well trained and equipped the Turkish Army really is...I know that in 74 they made some major boo boos with loss of lives etc as you point out,Nikitas...

But I am certain of one thing....NOTHING will shake the trust and respect the Turkish people have in their army....No amount of misfortune will result in the Army losing its influence on Turkish society...

Believe me,you do not want to be fighting another war with Turkey now...
Or ever...Back in 1916,or thereabouts,when the Allied forces were threatening to overrun the Ottoman positions on the Dardanells,their commander,someone called Mustafa Kemal, gave this order : "I am not ordering you to attack....I am Ordering you to die...In the time it takes for us to die,others will come and replace us...." This mentality changed little over the years. If anything it has been strengthened....A hot conflict with Turkey would be nothing less than mindless suicide...I understand that desperation make people do silly things,but another war now must never be contemplated...Such talk as you are engaged in here only serves to scare the pants off the TCs and drive them further into Turkey's arms...Please listen carefully to my dear compatriot Miltiades' wise words...The answer to our little problem lies in cultivating our Cypriotness in a peaceful and determined manner...When we are all Cypriots first,there will no longer be the problem of majority or minority,us and them etc...That will be the end of the Cyprus problem as we know it...

[Get Real!]

Believe me,you do not want to be fighting another war with Turkey now...

So which war are we currently fighting?

Or ever...Back in 1916,or thereabouts,when the Allied forces were threatening to overrun the Ottoman positions on the Dardanells,their commander,someone called Mustafa Kemal, gave this order : "I am not ordering you to attack....I am Ordering you to die...In the time it takes for us to die,others will come and replace us...." This mentality changed little over the years. If anything it has been strengthened....A hot conflict with Turkey would be nothing less than mindless suicide...

I’m trying very hard to understand where some of you get the notion that Turkey is some invincible “superpower”…

Looking at Turkey’s “problems” from the Turkish military viewpoint we have several fronts all being very important and including…the Kurdish “problem”, the Armenian “problem”, the Aegean “problem”, the Cyprus “problem”, the internal “problem” and any other front I fail to mention here. Each of these “fronts” requires an “x” number of troops dedicated to deal with the specific “problem” from Turkey’s 510,000 odd enlisted service men.

Having said that, let’s just clear up that Turkey can NEVER mobilize all 500 thousand troops and move them onto Cyprus for the sake of the Turkish Cypriots while leaving every other front exposed! So, what is Turkey prepared to “spend” for the sake of the “TRNC”? That is the million dollar question and not how brutal Turkey can be with her civilians or how much these same civilians love their army, because every country loves its army as it provides the civilians with a sense of security.

I understand that desperation make people do silly things,but another war now must never be contemplated...Such talk as you are engaged in here only serves to scare the pants off the TCs and drive them further into Turkey's arms...Please listen carefully to my dear compatriot Miltiades' wise words...The answer to our little problem lies in cultivating our Cypriotness in a peaceful and determined manner...When we are all Cypriots first,there will no longer be the problem of majority or minority,us and them etc...That will be the end of the Cyprus problem as we know it...

The Turkish Cypriot leadership and many everyday TCs included, have clearly resigned to taking advantage of this “stalemate” for their own selfish interests. To suggest that it’s the Greek Cypriots “scaring” the often boastful TCs into Turkey’s arms is equivalent to removing all TC responsibilities towards Cyprus and encouraging them to continue playing their familiar games of blackmail.

“Cultivating the Cypriotness in a peaceful and determined manner” sounds great but try doing that to the TC community that has been brainwashed for the last 30 years into wiping their hands clean from any responsibility whatsoever and being told that they should engage in crime, such as the prostitution of GC properties etc, because there is “no other way for them to survive”! Fancy that!!!

As I said to VP in another post earlier…

…in order to eliminate any sense of guilt, the TC community had to find very serious reasons for being an accessory to such a serious international crime. This was achieved by heightening the amplitude of the inter-communal clashes and redefining the actual events so that “200 dead” now became a “genocide”, and “3-4 killed with a knife” now became a “mass slaughter” etc. The TC education system then set about “re-educating” or if you like conditioning the TC community so that the only version of events that got passed on to the next generations was that which justified their illegal behavior and removed any sense of guilt.

When you’re dealing with a hopeless gimmick of a situation like this, it becomes apparent that only a military commotion of international proportions can derail the current charade that the RoC has been forced into…

[BirKibrisli]

It is difficult for non-Turkish people to understand the Army's place in the heart of the Turkish people...Turkey itself is the creation of the Military led by one man,who is treated as semi-God...To criticise the army is to criticise Ataturk,and that is sacrilege for 99% of the Turkish people...

Please stop this war talk...And the talk which ends with the threat to pulverise the entire North of our Country...That is not the way to make friends and influence people,in this day and age...Only a nuclear war can bring Turkey to her knees,and as a member of NATO I'd say she is well protected from that eventuality...
War mongering only helps drive the partition nails further into our homeland's bossom...If that is the motivation,there are easier ways to achieve it than a senseless and suicidal conflict from which Cyprus will come out as the biggest loser...

[Paphitis]

It is difficult for non-Turkish people to understand the Army's place in the heart of the Turkish people...Turkey itself is the creation of the Military led by one man,who is treated as semi-God...To criticise the army is to criticise Ataturk,and that is sacrilege for 99% of the Turkish people...

Please stop this war talk...And the talk which ends with the threat to pulverise the entire North of our Country...That is not the way to make friends and influence people,in this day and age...Only a nuclear war can bring Turkey to her knees,and as a member of NATO I'd say she is well protected from that eventuality...
War mongering only helps drive the partition nails further into our homeland's bossom...If that is the motivation,there are easier ways to achieve it than a senseless and suicidal conflict from which Cyprus will come out as the biggest loser...

At the moment both sides are negotiating. Therefore, lets just wait and see what happens. Personally, I beleive there is as much chance of a negotiated settlement as Paris Hilton still being a virgin.

After all avenues for a peacefull settlement are exhausted, then military action can never be ruled out. The borders of Cyprus end at Kyrenia and Apostolos Andreas and not at Ayios Dometios or Ledra. Cyprus would be well within it's rights in attempting to liberate it's own territory from occupation. The only thing that is required is the perfect timing and opportunism. And Turkey is certainly not undefeatable. This is especially true if Cyprus was to receive assistance from other third parties with the ever changing geopolitical landscape.

I am no war monger. And I would not wish it upon Cyprus and it's people. However, there is only so much that can be tolerated. And having one's country under occupation, can never be tolerated for ever.

Bir, I know you are a very nice man, and I take my hat off to you for being a very intelligent, fair, and honorable man. I think you can understand that we as Cypriots can not tolerate the current impasse and the recalcitrance of Turkey and it's numerous violations of international law, human rights and war crimes which continue today. Cypriots have their dignity and honor, and this is worth fighting for.

[shahmaran]

That's pretty large coming from the glorious Mr Anzac who has recently got his ass whooped by an army of poorly armed peasants!

Turkey has fought most of the main EU countries directly or indirectly in the past when it didn't even have any real means to protect herself, and still came out victorious, and you think the RoC might have a chance?

Each time Turkey got attacked was a time when they thought that was THE opportunity to attack as well....

Some people never learn

[Paphitis]

That's pretty large coming from the glorious Mr Anzac who has recently got his ass whooped by an army of poorly armed peasants!

Turkey has fought most of the main EU countries directly or indirectly in the past when it didn't even have any real means to protect herself, and still came out victorious, and you think the RoC might have a chance?

Each time Turkey got attacked was a time when they thought that was THE opportunity to attack as well....

Some people never learn

It is not a question of attacking just for the sake of causing violence and devestation. It is a case of defending our country from occupation. And our country finishes at Kyrenia and Apostolos Andreas.

As I said, I think there is no chance of a negotiated settlement. I hope I am proven wrong over this, and a fair compromise is reached and avoid any devestating war. And the ball is squarely in Turkey's court.

And yes, given the right conditions, the RoC does have a chance. Turkey's allies today could be her adversaries tomorrow. And the enemies of Cyprus today, could also be her strongest allies tomorrow. You know how it goes. Every nation will act based on it's own interests and the geopolitics of the region change over time.

[shahmaran]

That's pretty large coming from the glorious Mr Anzac who has recently got his ass whooped by an army of poorly armed peasants!

Turkey has fought most of the main EU countries directly or indirectly in the past when it didn't even have any real means to protect herself, and still came out victorious, and you think the RoC might have a chance?

Each time Turkey got attacked was a time when they thought that was THE opportunity to attack as well....

Some people never learn

It is not a question of attacking just for the sake of causing violence and devestation. It is a case of defending our country from occupation. And our country finishes at Kyrenia and Apostolos Andreas.

As I said, I think there is no chance of a negotiated settlement. I hope I am proven wrong over this, and a fair compromise is reached and avoid any devestating war. And the ball is squarely in Turkey's court.

And yes, given the right conditions, the RoC does have a chance. Turkey's allies today could be her adversaries tomorrow. And the enemies of Cyprus today, could also be her strongest allies tomorrow. You know how it goes. Every nation will act based on it's own interests and the geopolitics of the region change over time.

Unfortunately you will not only be fighting Turkey but also the Cypriots who are living in the North, who want nothing to do with your corrupt racist Republic.

It wont only be a suicide mission for you but also the destruction of any minute hope people still have left in order to live together again.

You are forgetting the extent of the wars and the people Turkey has fought and won in the past, Cyprus is p-nut for Turkey.

[Paphitis]

That's pretty large coming from the glorious Mr Anzac who has recently got his ass whooped by an army of poorly armed peasants!

Turkey has fought most of the main EU countries directly or indirectly in the past when it didn't even have any real means to protect herself, and still came out victorious, and you think the RoC might have a chance?

Each time Turkey got attacked was a time when they thought that was THE opportunity to attack as well....

Some people never learn

What the hell. I thought Turkey was on the losing side! Germany and Turkey lost the Great War. Did they not?

But then again such statements are very large from Mr Donktosh! What do you expect from Turks who try very hard to re-write history and still have not come to terms with their own demons such as the Armenian, Pontian Greek, and Assyrian genocides. Genocides that are second only to the Nazi Final Solution in volume and barbarity! And what about it's near perfect record in ethnic cleansing from Asia Minor, Constantinople and Occupied Cyprus. Yes Turkey certainly does have it's talents, doesn't it?