Cyprus-Forum.com

[Paphitis]

Don't be so sure Paphitis, I am myself a TC who's not going anywhere nor I wish to have anything to do with the Republic of the Corrupt, and I assure you that I am far from alone...

Sure, but you are a minority. You should not be so sure that relations between the TCs and the Turkish Army or the settlers are all sweet as.

You may not be going anywhere, but many TCs who are not either members of the fascistical Grey Wolves, Neopartitionist or the morally corrupt (to use someone else's terminology) who enjoy the illegal fruits and possessions of the ethnically cleansed and enjoy all the plum jobs and opportunities due to severe corruption and "trnc" nepotism for the ruling elites, will have no choice but to leave for better opportunities. This is what is happenning in your neck of the woods and in time the 110,000 TCs that live in occupied Cyprus will become 80,000 and then 50,000 and then 40,000 and then.....................................the TCs will unfortunately become an insignificant minority in the illegal state created by Turkey that was supposedly to be their saviour. Then there will be no TCs left in Cyprus except for the morally corrupt and the overwhelming part of the population will be Turkish Military and settlers. As I said, the majority of TCs will be ethnically cleansed by stealth and the only ones that remain would be the ruling elites who take advantage of the current situation and line their bank accounts with the sale of stolen properties etc.

Its funny you say that because I thought we were only around 75,000 here so we are a serious minority anyway, on the other hand there was always the option of being exterminated by the GC`s.

Do you seriously think that the TC`s started leaving AFTER Turkey came here?

Thanks for correcting my statistics. Clearly the Turkish ethnic cleansing machine is much more efficient than what I anticipated.

And let me tell you this. As a GC myself, I have absolutely no desire to exterminate anyone, including the TCs. And I can put my hand to my heart and tell you that 99% of my fellow GCs do not even have the slightest intention of hurting a TC let alone exterminating them them.

I think you have very tactfully ignored my last sentence

Turkey is only making up for the damage you have caused in order to rid the island from TC's.

Again, you reap what you saw.

Yes I beleive that most TCs left post invasion, and are still leaving in droves. Those that are not a part of the morally corrupt, ruling elite, and do not feed on the inherant corruption to line their bank accounts have had no choice but to leave for better opportunities.

When the "trnc" was declared, there where 120,000 TCs. Now there are 75,000 as you put it or 70,000 according to Miltiades. A reduction of 50,000!

Well screw you very much Paphitis, you are calling me, my family and their likes morally corrupt because they haven't left the island?

What the fuck is this some Alfred Hitchcock story?

So you force people out of their country with various sinister agendas and then you call the ones who stay behind "morally corrupt"?

This time you really are talking out of your arse my friend...

It must be getting late in Australia

No, I do not call you morally corrupt. You may be a TC that is originally from where you reside and hence are not taking advantage of the situation. I do not know you so I have no right calling you anything, so just relax.

I also did not call most TCs currently in the "trnc" as morally corrupt. The morally corrupt are those that are capitalising on the current situation and hence do not have any interest in a fair solution. Those of you that fall into this category, know who you are.

[shahmaran]

The actual figure is 69356 T/Cs !!

There are 256.000 voting TRNC citizens full stop, they are all our people.

Talk for yourself viewpoint....there might be 256.000 voting but they are NOT all my people...(and i've been a TC all my life................not recently)

What are your people , matey? Define a TC , if you dare.

My people....TC's are the descendants of the Ottomans who have been living in Cyprus for hundreds of years..........Not since 1974.

Here you have it Bilako a spot on definition of a T/C .
What defines me as a G/C is that my father , his father , their father , their grndparents were all CYPRIOTS , for hundreds of years !!

Miltiades your ethnicity is not the only defining factor for your nationality, you cant say "if your grand grand grandfather is not Cypriot than neither are you" what kind of crap is this, you are sounding like this Paphitis clown now.

[iceman]

The actual figure is 69356 T/Cs !!

There are 256.000 voting TRNC citizens full stop, they are all our people.

Talk for yourself viewpoint....there might be 256.000 voting but they are NOT all my people...(and i've been a TC all my life................not recently)

Are the Russians and the Chinese in the South "your people" iceman?

I dont recall saying they were shah...

[shahmaran]

No, I do not call you morally corrupt. You may be a TC that is originally from where you reside and hence are not taking advantage of the situation. I do not know you so I have no right calling you anything, so just relax.

I also did not call most TCs currently in the "trnc" as morally corrupt. The morally corrupt are those that are capitalising on the current situation and hence do not have any interest in a fair solution. Those of you that fall into this category, know who you are.

No this is exactly what you said!

Those that are not a part of the morally corrupt, ruling elite, and do not feed on the inherant corruption to line their bank accounts have had no choice but to leave for better opportunities.

This is the perfect example of the kind of prejudice that floats about in the world, thanks to the GC propaganda merchants like yourself.

Of course you don't know me, you probably don't know anyone in the North you don't even live here, yet you feel like you can freely throw about such false claims about us.

YOU wanted to force us out of here and WE had to take precautions, deal with it!

[shahmaran]

The actual figure is 69356 T/Cs !!

There are 256.000 voting TRNC citizens full stop, they are all our people.

Talk for yourself viewpoint....there might be 256.000 voting but they are NOT all my people...(and i've been a TC all my life................not recently)

Are the Russians and the Chinese in the South "your people" iceman?

I dont recall saying they were shah...

So lets take another country for example the US, how can you say that if you are not the descendant from some of the early colonialists nor a Native American then you are not an American but just and immigrant?

The same goes for the British, if you are not white you are not British, nevermind the millions of Indians, those millions of Turks living in Germany are not German? Who the hell are the Australians then?

Don't you find this logic a bit perverse?

[Paphitis]

"As for the other TCs that where ethnically cleansed by Turkey, they are more than welcome to come back. We will welcome them with open arms as the citizens of our country."

You are a joke...

You are the joke for not having 1 reconcilliatory bone in your body.

Why can you not even try to reconcile with your countrymen and women the GCs? Do you have children? Because if you do, you should know that the youth today are very liberal, less religious, less nationalistic and less racist and even non homophobic. When I look at the youth, I sometimes think how much better this world will be when they grow and enter into power. A better world will be achieved when the old, anachronistic, nationalistic, and racist amongst us all pass on and are replaced by superior humans.

[shahmaran]

"As for the other TCs that where ethnically cleansed by Turkey, they are more than welcome to come back. We will welcome them with open arms as the citizens of our country."

You are a joke...

You are the joke for not having 1 reconcilliatory bone in your body.

Why can you not even try to reconcile with your countrymen and women the GCs? Do you have children? Because if you do, you should know that the youth today are very liberal, less religious, less nationalistic and less racist and even non homophobic. When I look at the youth, I sometimes think how much better this world will be when they grow and enter into power. A better world will be achieved when the old, anachronistic, nationalistic, and racist amongst us all pass on and are replaced by superior humans.

Well not being very old myself i can safely say that many GC and TC parents have done a great job making sure their crap lives on, so dont be so optimistic.

I have no problem with the GC's as people, in fact i was just trying to point out the fact that ALL people are 1 as opposed to the claims here about who is Cypriot and who is not.

Its the racist politics that worries me, i do not have to aggree with it in order to like GC people or any other people as a matter of fact.

[Paphitis]

No, I do not call you morally corrupt. You may be a TC that is originally from where you reside and hence are not taking advantage of the situation. I do not know you so I have no right calling you anything, so just relax.

I also did not call most TCs currently in the "trnc" as morally corrupt. The morally corrupt are those that are capitalising on the current situation and hence do not have any interest in a fair solution. Those of you that fall into this category, know who you are.

No this is exactly what you said!

Those that are not a part of the morally corrupt, ruling elite, and do not feed on the inherant corruption to line their bank accounts have had no choice but to leave for better opportunities.

This is the perfect example of the kind of prejudice that floats about in the world, thanks to the GC propaganda merchants like yourself.

Of course you don't know me, you probably don't know anyone in the North you don't even live here, yet you feel like you can freely throw about such false claims about us.

YOU wanted to force us out of here and WE had to take precautions, deal with it!

When I talk of the morally corrupt, I am referring to those fascistical neo-partitionists, Grey Wolves, and the ruling elites that take advantage of the current situation and benefit from the nepotism and corruption of the "trnc", and occupy the plum jobs and have realised new found wealth from dishonest and corrupt means.

Stop misinterpreting my posts and you have no right in calling me prejudiced.

And for your information, my best friend just happens to be a TC now living in Melbourne. Also, I am very good friends with a TC residing in the occupied north. I have visited his house in the "trnc". And it might be a surprise to you, but I have travelled and seen every square inch of the "trnc" and spoken to many TCs, who do not share the same opinions as yourself and are rather very polite and hospitable people.

[Paphitis]

"As for the other TCs that where ethnically cleansed by Turkey, they are more than welcome to come back. We will welcome them with open arms as the citizens of our country."

You are a joke...

You are the joke for not having 1 reconcilliatory bone in your body.

Why can you not even try to reconcile with your countrymen and women the GCs? Do you have children? Because if you do, you should know that the youth today are very liberal, less religious, less nationalistic and less racist and even non homophobic. When I look at the youth, I sometimes think how much better this world will be when they grow and enter into power. A better world will be achieved when the old, anachronistic, nationalistic, and racist amongst us all pass on and are replaced by superior humans.

Well not being very old myself i can safely say that many GC and TC parents have done a great job making sure their crap lives on, so dont be so optimistic.

I have no problem with the GC's as people, in fact i was just trying to point out the fact that ALL people are 1 as opposed to the claims here about who is Cypriot and who is not.

Its the racist politics that worries me, i do not have to aggree with it in order to like GC people or any other people as a matter of fact.

I disagree. Most parents would teach their children about love, compassion, honesty, loyalty, manners and respect. All sound qualities that parents would like to see their children develop.

And no parent would want to see their children being consumed by hatred, and racism. Nor would they like to see their children suffering under inter communal violence or war. It is for them that we owe it to ensure that these events do not occur again. It is for them that we owe it as Cypriots to reconcile and unify our country. Anything else would be a failure and would condemn them to further bloodshed down the track.

[Murataga]

It is difficult for non-Turkish people to understand the Army's place in the heart of the Turkish people...Turkey itself is the creation of the Military led by one man,who is treated as semi-God...To criticise the army is to criticise Ataturk,and that is sacrilege for 99% of the Turkish people...

Please stop this war talk...And the talk which ends with the threat to pulverise the entire North of our Country...That is not the way to make friends and influence people,in this day and age...Only a nuclear war can bring Turkey to her knees,and as a member of NATO I'd say she is well protected from that eventuality...
War mongering only helps drive the partition nails further into our homeland's bossom...If that is the motivation,there are easier ways to achieve it than a senseless and suicidal conflict from which Cyprus will come out as the biggest loser...

At the moment both sides are negotiating. Therefore, lets just wait and see what happens. Personally, I beleive there is as much chance of a negotiated settlement as Paris Hilton still being a virgin.

After all avenues for a peacefull settlement are exhausted, then military action can never be ruled out. The borders of Cyprus end at Kyrenia and Apostolos Andreas and not at Ayios Dometios or Ledra. Cyprus would be well within it's rights in attempting to liberate it's own territory from occupation. The only thing that is required is the perfect timing and opportunism. And Turkey is certainly not undefeatable. This is especially true if Cyprus was to receive assistance from other third parties with the ever changing geopolitical landscape.

I am no war monger. And I would not wish it upon Cyprus and it's people. However, there is only so much that can be tolerated. And having one's country under occupation, can never be tolerated for ever.

Bir, I know you are a very nice man, and I take my hat off to you for being a very intelligent, fair, and honorable man. I think you can understand that we as Cypriots can not tolerate the current impasse and the recalcitrance of Turkey and it's numerous violations of international law, human rights and war crimes which continue today. Cypriots have their dignity and honor, and this is worth fighting for.

Thank you for your kind words,Paphitis...I know that you are a very decent man,and it is your desperation and frustration which make you consider war as a possibility. As far as I am concerned that option would only intensify and prolong the suffering...Turkey is not in Cyprus just for her own interests...If we consider the events which brought the occupation about we see that Turkey is primarily looking after NATO's interests. I cannot believe that The British could not have totally destroyed the EOKA back in 1955,had they wanted to...EOKA served the purpose of fueling Greek nationalism,as TMT which was also sanctioned by the British fueled Turkish nationalism...Cypriots had to be divided by this virus,to stop them from becoming one people,one nation,lest they chose to turn to communism with AKEL leading the way...There is no doubt about this,Turkey is in Cyprus with the blessing of the USA and most Western European powers. The solution to our problem lies in making all Cypriots see how we were played against each other,and became pawns in the international cold war at the time. Once most people realise this,and wake up from their nationalism stupor,the solution will follow smoothly...Cyprus is the homeland of all Cypriots...We must love every inch of it...And we must never talk about fighting each other again...We must unite as one people and make the world realise there is no longer any need for Turkey to be in Cyprus...But we have to convince the TCs first of all...And we can't do it by threats of annihilation...

We, the TCs, are as one with the GCs, as a resident of Edirne is one with a resident of Thessaloniki – historically, ethnically, sociologically, culturally, linguistically, and religiously. Denying this is either illiteracy or indecency and trying to enforce otherwise is fatal on all levels.

Greek nationalism in Cyprus was well and alive way before EOKA was officially launched. Nationalism, be it GC or TC, was not fueled by EOKA or TMT. Nationalism is a by-product of industrialization and it was effectively spread around the world with the outbreak of the French Revolution in 1789. As a consequence, almost all major Empires eventually came to an end and numerous countries got established along (essentially) ethnic lines. The borders of these newly developed countries, with very minor exceptions, have been drawn as a consequence of some armed conflict along the way. The fact of the matter is that today these borders are the recognized borders of dozens of U.N. member countries – including Greece and Turkey. The TCs and GCs came to brink of this conflict numerous times because the situation was not different for them from a historical, sociological, cultural and ethnic standpoint. However, instead of carrying out the battle we made an agreement - an agreement that allowed each side to self-govern its affairs without the other interfering, an agreement that barred any and all union with the motherlands. A careful observer will come to the indisputable conclusion that this agreement was in essence what the member countries of the EU have among themselves today, but with the only major difference in that there were no borders controlled per community. The GC side wanted to change this agreement to their advantage. We refused and the rest is history.

In summary, there is no legitimate historical, moral, democratic or humane argument that can justify the TCs to hand over their self-governing rights over to the GCs in any way on this island. Because we have refused to hand these rights over to the GCs we have been attacked and enclaved for years. Union can not and will not mean becoming a part of some synthetically generated identity that is numerically dominated by peoples of Hellenic ambitions, life-style, policies, culture, religion, and language. That is not democracy, that is tyranny and it is not much different than asking Greece to unite with Turkey so that the Aegean can become a more democratic place. As acknowledged by the U.N.: there are TWO COMMUNITIES in Cyprus, one GC and the other TC. Union can only be realized when the GCs accept (by heart) that they are not the nation but only a COMMUNITY of Cyprus.

The trouble is,Murataga,if we insist on keeping the division along ethnic lines,we will set in concrete the animosity which exist today between the two communities.... Not to mention the suspicion,bitterness,and the sense of injustice...This is not a good recipe for the future.

And I believe acknowledging, respecting and embracing our differences rather than down-playing them, and allowing each community to govern itself rather than placing one under the other`s majority rule is the recipe for justice, peace and prosperity in Cyprus.

The coming generations will pay the price for our stubbornness to let go of our ethnic affiliations,and our blind nationalism.I am totally convinced we need to get past all this ethnic fixation,majority/minority fears,divisions and double standards,and reach the point where what really matters is our commitment to Cyprus as a whole,and the struggle to build one nation of Cypriots,albeit multilingual and multireligious....

The pathway to peace in Cyprus can not and should not be a synthetic debilitation of our self-identity. I am a Turkish Cypriot and I have the right to self-governance as a Turkish Cypriot. No one has the right to ask me to give it up under any circumstances, just as no one has the right to ask the Greeks of Greece to become Aegeans first and practice majority rule in the Aegean region. Forming a peaceful, diverse, multilingual, multireligious Cyprus needs no effort of synthetic nation building from anyone. To the contrary, the effort of forming a peaceful, diverse, multilingual, multireligious Cyprus specifically needs to be protected from the tyranic effort of synthetic nation building.

This won't happen in one step of course,i understand that...But the interm solution must leave the road open for real reunification...Then with time,goodwill,and lot of effort,we will get there...I promise to come back and lend a hand...

Bir let me save you the trouble: We will not give up our rights to make foreigners feel better and we will not give up our rights to have the GCs make peace with us.