Cyprus-Forum.com

[salonica]

We are a numerical minority. The question is should we also be a political minority in our own homeland.

Yes you are, just like every other ethnic minority in the world.

18% is your figure

Actually it is about 16.5%, I gave you more.

In power we are trying to get equality of the communites.

82% is not equal to the 18%. Why should 100.000 TCs be able to block something and 100.000 GCs can not? This is not democracy, maybe is the Turkish kind of democracy

As long as you make the laws

as long as you define democracy in your terms

as long as you define what human rights are

How about:
The laws of EU in any other EU country
The kind of democracy in any other EU country
The human rights as defined by the UN

Erolz, you are the ones who want to create in something that does not exist anywhere else in order to screw us. We accept just about any other EU country system and laws and the standard definitions of human rights by the UN.

I try to not respond certain people on this forum because my debates with them are usually counterproductive. And you are one of them.

I am glad that discussions with me and you are counter productive because I know what kind of "product" you want.

IF WE ARE A MINORITY, WHY WILL WE BE ASKED TO VOTE FOR A SOLUTION? CAN'T YOU SEE THAT IT IS ALSO IN OUR HANDS TO DECIDE WHETHER TO SAY YES OR NO FOR THE UNIFICATION? WILL YOU STOP PATRONIZING BY CLAIMING THAT WE ARE A MINORITY? WE WILL NEVER SACRIFICE OUR STATE AND INDEPENDENCE (DON'T CARE IF YOU CALL IT ILLEGAL) TO BECOME A SIMPLE MINORITY UNDER THE RULE OF GREEK CYPRIOTS WHO HAD ALWAYS WORKED AGAINST US, AND WILL WORK AGAINST US IN THE FUTURE. YOU DO NOT EVEN SHOW A VERY SINGLE AMOUNT OF SYPMAPHY TOWARDS TURKISH CYPRIOTS, YOU WANT TO TAKE THEIR RIGHTS, YOU TALK ABOUT CIVILISATION OR WHATSOEVER, BUT YOU ARE THE ONE WHO WANTS TO TAKE THE FREEDOM OF US. AGAIN, GET THIS TO YOUR THICK SKULL THAT WE WILL NEVER VOTE YES TO BECOME A SIMPLE MINORITY, A GREEK MUSLIM, UNDER THE YOKE OF GREEKS. YOU CANNOT TRICK US BY PLAYING THE EU CARD, UNFORTUNATELY EVERYBODY IS BEHIND US!

With this attitude I am afraid a solution is impossible. You should realise that indeed the TC are a minority in the island and there is nothing that can be done about it. TC have the opportunity to live in a country their own homeland in peace and they can prosper like any other Cypriot. Any TC is free to have every right that a GC or a Maronite has in the modern Cypriot society. You should also realise that what you are asking is simply out of the question and cannot be done. The only way to have a state like that is through division of the island and I still beleive that noone wants that. It is irrational to ask for something like that. Would you give the same right to Kurds in Turkey? I definetaly wouldn't like to see s/g like that in Greece from Muslims-Turks of Thrace!!
In my understanding the TC are still manipulated by Turkey. Beleive me, you don't know how many GC are dissapointed in that fact. Otherwise, I can't really explain the persistence in such demandings. Those are serve Turkey and noone else.
You will have every political right that any other member of the RoC has. But that's it!! do not expect any GC to accept nothing less than that. we are talking about Democracy here. TC can of course have the right to vote for their own people but at least you should grant the GC the same right.
you should also realise that no GC is waiting for a solution to be reached in order to start slaughtering TC. we live in 2005 and Cyprus is a modern western-type society where the aim of its citizens is to further improve their lives.

[erolz]

With this attitude I am afraid a solution is impossible. You should realise that indeed the TC are a minority in the island and there is nothing that can be done about it.

Still trying to legtimise the theft of TC rights granted to them under the 1960 consitituion that you agreed to and unilaterlay and illeagl renegade on then!

TC have the opportunity to live in a country their own homeland in peace and they can prosper like any other Cypriot.

Just as we had in 63-74

Any TC is free to have every right that a GC or a Maronite has in the modern Cypriot society.

No you do not offer every right that a GC has. A GC has a right for their community in Cyprus to have an effective say in what happens in their own homeland. You wish to steal this right from the TC community.

You should also realise that what you are asking is simply out of the question and cannot be done.

So when you leaders talk of a federal solution they are once again only saying so for convience with no intention to actualy allow a federal solution to work. That once they have removed all the protections of TC by agreeing a federal solution they will once again reneage on their agreement and force TC into a status of political minority, against their will and against any agreement they have signed.

you should also realise that no GC is waiting for a solution to be reached in order to start slaughtering TC. we live in 2005 and Cyprus is a modern western-type society where the aim of its citizens is to further improve their lives.

As long as we accept your theft of our rights in 63 and agree to live under GC political domination, you will let us live. If we insist on our rights and resist GC domination in our own homeland - then you will use whatever means you have to crush us. WHen you had the ability to do that with force you used it. Since you lost that ability in 74 you now try and do it with politics. The objective remains the same ilegal, undemocratic and human rights ignoring objective that you had in 63 and desrivbed in the Akritas plan.

[Bananiot]

It is slowly but surely becoming clearer. The reason why our leadership fought so menacingly to void the A Plan and in so doing tricked the majority of the GC's that their lifehood was at stake, is because we do not care for a bicommunal, bizonal federation in which the two communities will be equal political partners. Of course, we do not need the likes of salonica and the rest of the GC nationalist banch of the forum to spell it out. We have known this all the time, and to paraphrase the words of our ethnarch, those that need to know, know too.

When the ordinary GC's wake from the litharge they will realise that the empty promises given to them for a better solution were just the smoke screen for our ruling rejectionist elit to prepare the ground for the partition that will allow it to remain in charge for another term, albeit of a permanently partitioned island. This means nothing to them. Partition is miles better for them than a solution where the power is shared with someone else. You see, there is the loot and we do not need others (especially the Turks) taking a share. THIS IS TREASON, if I am permitted to use the kind of kretin phraseology many people so easily resort to in this forum.

There is only one way to save the unity of Cyprus. To agree to political equality of the two communities and agree on a new version of the A Plan that will adress some of the genuine concerns of the GC community without changing the philosophy of the Plan. This is the only option. Any other proposal will only cement partition with the blessings of the UN and the EU and the rest of the world.

P.S. Now that I officially find by self in the yard of Artaxerxes since I have been placed there by the politically correct, is it ok to say hello to Talat?

[salonica]

if you really believe all these and you think that only under these circumstances the TC will be safe, then I beleive that you do not care about the solution. The only thing that you are interested in is recognision of your so-called state.

I, like any other GC, object to your scenario simply because it is not democratic. You cannot impose the minority into the majority. I also beleive that you are stucked in the 60s, unfortunately.

But you haven't answered me, would you accept a similar scenario for Kurds inside Turkey?

What you need to understand is that being a minority, like you are it's pure mathematics! its not wrong or bad, as long as you can enjoy all rights that any other citizen of RoC has.

[Viewpoint]

Bananiot could you kindly answer a question for me, it may be difficult but you said that there are many GCs that think like you, would this be 25% or do you feel there are more but are frightened and detered from speaking up???? like many GCs didnt speak out during the run up to the referendum due to the possibility of retribution from the NO supporters.

[Viewpoint]

salonica

But you haven't answered me, would you accept a similar scenario for Kurds inside Turkey?

Firstly welcome to the forum.

In response to your question did the Kurds agree anything the 1960 constitution we agrred with yourselves, if they did then they have every right.

We are a partner not a minority(only a minority numerically), so the sooner you come to terms with this issue the closer we can come to a solution. The Annan plan which was backed by many even Greece confirms this fact, so its time to get off your high horse and realize that we are not out to get you or cause problems in a new united Cyprus we to want it to work so that we can all get on with the rest of our lives without the Cyprus issue looming over us. But if you still insist on TCs becoming a minority in GC state then we would rather have what we have now.

[salonica]

bannaniot speaking about treason!!!!!!!

The velvet revolution guy!!!!

Unfortunately for you, when a solution will be reached it will be based on the Democratic principles. You can bark as much as you want, besides this is what you are getting paid of.

The only hope I have for a solution in the near future is through the TC themselves. I am still waiting their reaction, when they found out what Tallat really represents and what happened to all of his unification talks.

People are not stupid to realise that claiming reunification acts and at the same time, putting obstacles to the peace process is somewhat controversial.

I am still expecting a larger scale reaction from the TC against Angara policies.

In the meantime, you can do what you are meant to do. It will have no effect at all.

[Bananiot]

Of course I will answer your question. There are many people who think like me and on a daily basis they express their views in the two GC newspapers that seriously challenge the wisdom of the government. These are "Politis" and "Alitheia" newspaper. There is also a radio station that daily scrutinises the government of Papadopoulos. Apparently it is a sport radio called "Super Spor FM". It broadcasts on 104.00 FM and has a huge audience. "Politis" is the second paper in circulation and "Alitheia", which mainly supports DISI, has a good readership too. It is also well known that many of AKEL's members are not happy with the current situation but, AKEL being a communist party, works with the stalinist "democratic Centralism" dogma, so the very few that dare make their voices heard outside the party are sent packing. So, people like Eleni Mavrou, Takis Hadjigeorgiou and the minister Andreas Christou are forced to express only the official party line but of course in their private conversations they tell a different tale.

Many honest people have been tricked into following the rejectionists but I feel that once the real face of rejectionism is uncovered these people will see the light. If the rejectionists manage to convince people that partition is better then the game is lost. At the moment, despite the idea of partition gaining momemntum, there is still a huge resentment for partition still. This is how I interprete the stalling tactics of Papadopoulos who of course, ideally, would like the TC community to shoulder the blame of partition. I think Talat will not do him this favour.

[erolz]

I, like any other GC, object to your scenario simply because it is not democratic. You cannot impose the minority into the majority. I also beleive that you are stucked in the 60s, unfortunately.

Then any federal state where there is equality of component states regardless of the population size of the component states (the definition of a federal solution) is also undemocratic. As is the EU undemocratic and the UN undemocratic. Or are you of the opinion that democracy means one thing in unions of states and federal states except Cyprus and something entirely different in a federal Cyprus?

If GC continue to persue their illegal theft of TC communites rights that they started in 63 then do not be surprised if we all remian stuck in the 60's. You want what you wanted in 63 and tried to achieve with murder and terror and theft. That approach failed in 74. Now you still persue the same objectives (to steal the TC communites rights and legitimse this theft) but through different means. If we remian stuck in the 60's we are not the only ones.

But you haven't answered me, would you accept a similar scenario for Kurds inside Turkey?

If the modern Turkish state had been founded on the principal of equality of two communites (Turkish and Kurdish) and this had been agreed by both communites and then the Turkish community sough to steal those rights from the Kurdish community unilateraly and illegaly then yes I would support a similar senario.

What you need to understand is that being a minority, like you are it's pure mathematics! its not wrong or bad, as long as you can enjoy all rights that any other citizen of RoC has.

Being a political minority is NOT a matter of mathematics. If it were then no federal state could exists unless every compionent state was exactly the same size and neither would the RoC have political equality with the UK and Germany etc in the EU (mathematics is the same within a state and within unions of states) nor would they have equality with other states in the UN.

[Viewpoint]

Bananiot can I get to read any of this information in English over the net??? it would be intersting to hear more liberal views rather than the brain washed dribble we get on here.