Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kikapu]

VP,

My complaints are against Morally Corrupted and TMT Terrorist Mentality individuals such as yourself who does not support any peace in Cyprus. What you support is division and partition even under the disguised "peace plan" such as Annan Plan. The day there is true peace in Cyprus, is the day I'm certain you will leave the island, because you will not be able to bear the country uniting between the GC's and the TC's as a Independent country. TC's deserve being part of the West and living within the International Laws and not the situation they have been forced to live under now. The freedom to the TC's will come when people like you will stop coercing them in creating a "corrupt society" and instead form a "honest society" and are full equal members of the EU and the Cypriot society and identity.

Equality of the 2 communities will only come when outsiders such as yourself but out and leave us alone and stop telling us what to do. If the alternative is becoming a minority in a GC state then we do not want any part of it we have red lines and any new plan will have to take those into account.

Is your request for those living outside Cyprus should butt out only applies to me or any one else.

Have you sent the same request to Zan yet.??

What about all the other newbies that seems to have "mushroomed" out of nowhere lately. Almost all of them live abroad you know.!!

I'm going to answer your above question as honestly as I always do, which seems to irritate the shit out of you as always, then you start calling me names, but since you asked for it, you are going to get it.

The problem with the "TRNC" is, they have put red lines to anything and everything from the Turkish Troop withdrawal, the settlers must all stay, to veto vote, 50-50 power share, the north to become pure TC state under "virgin birth" concept, only certain number of GC's can reside in the north, the GC's can't vote in the north and on and on and on, so how do you expect to have any kind of an agreement from the other side if no red lines can't be crossed.? My guess is the other side will tell the "TRNC" to take it and shove it, which will give you the results you want, which is a no settlement. Have I missed something so far.??

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't most of what you want as a red line above are in the 1960 Constitution which you do not want to go back to because;

a) did not work in the past

b) you don't want them in a unitary state now

c) you want all the 1960 benefits as well as a pure TC state in the form of a Confederacy with "virgin birth" as well as limiting GC's returning to their homes in the north and limiting their democratic rights to vote in the north

Can you please enlighten me just what exactly the GC's will get in return for giving the "TRNC" what I wrote in "c", other than some land that belongs to them legally anyway. If this is what you call negotiations for a settlement and expect positive results to come out, then something is wrong with me in not comprehending the whole "peace process". Please tell me what is it that I'm missing, or I'm a being a GC again with these questions, or worse a traitor for not believing that the GC's will actually accept all these and not tell the TC's to "go to hell". Perhaps it will be easier for you to answer these questions if the shoe was on the other foot. What exactly would you be telling the GC's under the exact situation. Would it be perhaps "go to hell".?? Perhaps I'm wrong and I should not assume that the TC's would say such a thing.

We are all waiting for you to enlighten us VP.

[Kikapu]

Once upon a time people who looked different and thought differently to the majority were called "Witches" and burnt at stake....These days they are called "Traitors" and are threatened with terrible consequences if they didn't fall into line...

VP,I believe you owe Kikapu an apology...He is entitled to see the conflict the way he sees it. And more than entitled to speak his mind...Personally,I have some respect for your dedication to the TC cause, as you see it...You argue with passion and conviction,and notwithstanding the fact that I think your convictions are wrong and selectively moralistic,you are entitled to them...Please show the same respect for Kikapu's beliefs and convictions,and refrain from trying to intimidate him...This is the essence of Democracy which we all say we love and cherish.The fact that you cannot tolerate any dissent does indicate that deep down you might not be as sure about your stand as you seem to be...Nothing is black and white in this human tragedy in which we are all bit players...When we all see the different shades of colours,and realise no one has the monopoly on Truth and Justice,we will come closer to solving our problems...

Bir this forum confirms my conviction that agreed partition is the best solution for all, Kikapu is just one contributor to supporting my ideology, people like him do not realize they do more damage than good towards uniting this island and will the reason why the status quo will continue. For me you can argue in favor of the GC stance all you want but unlike you he attacks his own people and runs them into the ground at every opportunity then he has the nerve to say he doesn't, for me he is a traitor to the people he claims to have come from because he has not one good thing to say about TCs.

VP...Kikapu is more than capable of defending himself,but let me say this on his behalf : Because he doesn't say one good thing about the TCs(your assertion not mine) does not necessarily mean he doesn't have anything good to say...There are enough people on this forum who say only Good Things about the TCs (and the same goes for the GCS)...Perhaps Kikapu is trying to concentrate on the points most TCs are reluctant to make,for their own reasons.This does not make him a "traitor"...It makes him a person of independent thought who is not afraid of speaking his mind whatever the cost...If we had 1000 Kikapus in Cyprus and his equivalent in the RoC,our beloved homeland would be blessed with Truth,Justice,and Reconciliation...You are being most unfair...

Bir,

Thanks for trying to make VP see some sense, but VP is far gone into his division and partition song and dance and there's no bringing him back to reality that any peace on the island can only remain peaceful if only True Democracy can prevail. Just to give the TC community added protection, is the reason why I proposed a True Federation where the north can remain mostly TC's and the south mostly GC's but every Cypriots Democratic and Human rights protected. But this will not be accepted by the likes of VP, because it does not allow them to claim the north as a pure TC land, as the case would have been under the AP's BBF, which is not a True Federation but a Confederation, where it would be easy to say to the south one sunny Sunday morning, "guess what people, we the TC's have decided not to be in a union with you anymore, therefore we are taking our part of the island, the north and becoming an Independent country", and within a short time, it would have been accomplished .........and legally I may add.

This is the reason why VP is pissed off with me because he thinks that I'm letting the "TC secret out", therefore that makes me a traitor because now the "enemy" the GC's have wised up to his scheme, because the GC's could have never figured this out themselves, if I kept my mouth shut. I know you are laughing silly to yourself, but to VP, this is a corporal punishment. Of course VP does not care to think what would happen after such a scenario where the GC would retaliate when the north went their own separate ways, but then again, the Turkish army was always going to remain on the island to protect the TC's on their 2nd declaration of Independence. So to make a long story short which I can hear you saying "please hurry", VP's future for the TC's is more bloodshed and division between the TC's and the GC's and my crime is to prevent such outcomes for the sake of all Cypriots. So what is my reward for thinking deep into the future, I get called a traitor.

In all honesty, it does not bother me when I look at the source where it came from and from whom. VP is depressed for not getting the recognition that was supposedly promised to him by the International community for the TC's "yes" vote in 2004 AP and now he is trying desperately to get an agreed partition by giving some land back. He truly is a NeoPartitionist and will say and do anything to anyone to achieve his aim. He would label his own mother a traitor if it means to achieve his objectives for a partition.

The sad part is, Turkey does not want a partition, but instead just lifting of the embargoes to ease the financial burden on Turkey, so in actual fact, VP is wasting his breath on partition, partition, partition drum beat all the time. But he can't help it, because he is obsessed with it and it has become a "cancer" within him, that is eating him away and not able to think and function as a normal person. He has poisoned his own body with the "hate poison" which shows in his posts. He is truly a desperate man and wish him all the best that he will recover one day. So once again, all I have to do is look at the source and not take what he says about me and my relationship with the TC community seriously.

[repulsewarrior]

...speaking of Turkey, the Secular State, in my mind they will in the end be the key to our finding the perfection which Mankind can call a Solution and that has eluded us for so long. Even the deep State knows that no, one, can possess Cyprus, and it is better to have a State which represents itself, also Secular and open as a Democratic country, neither Turkish, or Greek, than to have the island divided in two. This is the only outcome, one Cyprus, which leaves Turkish Foreign Policy held in high esteem internationally. Speaking cynically, the two adversaries, Greece and Turkey, have been settling the score in a proxy war, by percentage, on this island, and it is a draw (even the settlers which bring the Turcophone population to thirty percent)) where it is best for both to fold. VP the "turkish" representative does not bother me because these arguments are entirely expected, however VP the person leaves me puzzled, because i expect so much more from someone who is sensitive and who uses their brain.

[BirKibrisli]

Bir,

Thanks for trying to make VP see some sense, but VP is far gone into his division and partition song and dance and there's no bringing him back to reality that any peace on the island can only remain peaceful if only True Democracy can prevail. Just to give the TC community added protection, is the reason why I proposed a True Federation where the north can remain mostly TC's and the south mostly GC's but every Cypriots Democratic and Human rights protected. But this will not be accepted by the likes of VP, because it does not allow them to claim the north as a pure TC land, as the case would have been under the AP's BBF, which is not a True Federation but a Confederation, where it would be easy to say to the south one sunny Sunday morning, "guess what people, we the TC's have decided not to be in a union with you anymore, therefore we are taking our part of the island, the north and becoming an Independent country", and within a short time, it would have been accomplished .........and legally I may add.

This is the reason why VP is pissed off with me because he thinks that I'm letting the "TC secret out", therefore that makes me a traitor because now the "enemy" the GC's have wised up to his scheme, because the GC's could have never figured this out themselves, if I kept my mouth shut. I know you are laughing silly to yourself, but to VP, this is a corporal punishment. Of course VP does not care to think what would happen after such a scenario where the GC would retaliate when the north went their own separate ways, but then again, the Turkish army was always going to remain on the island to protect the TC's on their 2nd declaration of Independence. So to make a long story short which I can hear you saying "please hurry", VP's future for the TC's is more bloodshed and division between the TC's and the GC's and my crime is to prevent such outcomes for the sake of all Cypriots. So what is my reward for thinking deep into the future, I get called a traitor.

In all honesty, it does not bother me when I look at the source where it came from and from whom. VP is depressed for not getting the recognition that was supposedly promised to him by the International community for the TC's "yes" vote in 2004 AP and now he is trying desperately to get an agreed partition by giving some land back. He truly is a NeoPartitionist and will say and do anything to anyone to achieve his aim. He would label his own mother a traitor if it means to achieve his objectives for a partition.

The sad part is, Turkey does not want a partition, but instead just lifting of the embargoes to ease the financial burden on Turkey, so in actual fact, VP is wasting his breath on partition, partition, partition drum beat all the time. But he can't help it, because he is obsessed with it and it has become a "cancer" within him, that is eating him away and not able to think and function as a normal person. He has poisoned his own body with the "hate poison" which shows in his posts. He is truly a desperate man and wish him all the best that he will recover one day. So once again, all I have to do is look at the source and not take what he says about me and my relationship with the TC community seriously.

You needn't worry about the length of your post,dear Kikapu...I can read your posts all day,they make perfect sense to me...They also make me feel I not not such a "freak"after all...

VP is sadly suffering from "Hand -me-down-information-from-propaganda-manuals-syndrome"!!! He learned all he knows about Cyprus problem from his parents when he was young (who I assume were Denktash worshippers),and from information put out by the trnc Information Office...
I am old enough to remember hearing all these arguments endlessly before leaving Cyprus in 1969....Old enough to remember a poem read out on Bayrak Radio called KIN (Hatred) which used to make my hairs stand up...It was all about how many "Gavour Heads" would be enough to pay for One TC life...

I keep shaking my head,because I have a feeling VP is genuine in his fear,he really believes that without Turkey we would be "Breakfast ,lunch and dinner" for GCs and there will be nobody to save "Our Mothers' honour" !!!!And he is not alone in this as you know,most of his supporting cast lead by Eric Dayi believe the same thing,and they will not hear any reason or logic...

Anyway,they will get a big shock when finally Turkey's presence in Cyprus outlives its usefulness to the USA and NATO and the Turkish soldiers are ordered out...You and I will not live to see that day,thankfully...
Because I wouldn't want to see so many people's whole world collapsing on their heads. It would kill me...

[repulsewarrior]

(...my guess is that Cyprus will be supra militarised to satisfy the needs of the interlocutors, Turkey's power will be neutralised in numbers), but in the end Cypriots will decide for themselves, how their daily lives will be occupied, without borders, without Armies to divide them, under their own rule of law.

Cyprus is an island. it is how many more are saying by any scale, other than the ones we define as TC, some Turks and Pakistanis, as opposed to Turkish Cypriots, and the rest of the world.

...we are its dwellers, and its stewards; free soon, free at last.

[Viewpoint]

Bir,

Thanks for trying to make VP see some sense, but VP is far gone into his division and partition song and dance and there's no bringing him back to reality that any peace on the island can only remain peaceful if only True Democracy can prevail. Just to give the TC community added protection, is the reason why I proposed a True Federation where the north can remain mostly TC's and the south mostly GC's but every Cypriots Democratic and Human rights protected. But this will not be accepted by the likes of VP, because it does not allow them to claim the north as a pure TC land, as the case would have been under the AP's BBF, which is not a True Federation but a Confederation, where it would be easy to say to the south one sunny Sunday morning, "guess what people, we the TC's have decided not to be in a union with you anymore, therefore we are taking our part of the island, the north and becoming an Independent country", and within a short time, it would have been accomplished .........and legally I may add.

This is the reason why VP is pissed off with me because he thinks that I'm letting the "TC secret out", therefore that makes me a traitor because now the "enemy" the GC's have wised up to his scheme, because the GC's could have never figured this out themselves, if I kept my mouth shut. I know you are laughing silly to yourself, but to VP, this is a corporal punishment. Of course VP does not care to think what would happen after such a scenario where the GC would retaliate when the north went their own separate ways, but then again, the Turkish army was always going to remain on the island to protect the TC's on their 2nd declaration of Independence. So to make a long story short which I can hear you saying "please hurry", VP's future for the TC's is more bloodshed and division between the TC's and the GC's and my crime is to prevent such outcomes for the sake of all Cypriots. So what is my reward for thinking deep into the future, I get called a traitor.

In all honesty, it does not bother me when I look at the source where it came from and from whom. VP is depressed for not getting the recognition that was supposedly promised to him by the International community for the TC's "yes" vote in 2004 AP and now he is trying desperately to get an agreed partition by giving some land back. He truly is a NeoPartitionist and will say and do anything to anyone to achieve his aim. He would label his own mother a traitor if it means to achieve his objectives for a partition.

The sad part is, Turkey does not want a partition, but instead just lifting of the embargoes to ease the financial burden on Turkey, so in actual fact, VP is wasting his breath on partition, partition, partition drum beat all the time. But he can't help it, because he is obsessed with it and it has become a "cancer" within him, that is eating him away and not able to think and function as a normal person. He has poisoned his own body with the "hate poison" which shows in his posts. He is truly a desperate man and wish him all the best that he will recover one day. So once again, all I have to do is look at the source and not take what he says about me and my relationship with the TC community seriously.

You needn't worry about the length of your post,dear Kikapu...I can read your posts all day,they make perfect sense to me...They also make me feel I not not such a "freak"after all...

VP is sadly suffering from "Hand -me-down-information-from-propaganda-manuals-syndrome"!!! He learned all he knows about Cyprus problem from his parents when he was young (who I assume were Denktash worshippers),and from information put out by the trnc Information Office...
I am old enough to remember hearing all these arguments endlessly before leaving Cyprus in 1969....Old enough to remember a poem read out on Bayrak Radio called KIN (Hatred) which used to make my hairs stand up...It was all about how many "Gavour Heads" would be enough to pay for One TC life...

I keep shaking my head,because I have a feeling VP is genuine in his fear,he really believes that without Turkey we would be "Breakfast ,lunch and dinner" for GCs and there will be nobody to save "Our Mothers' honour" !!!!And he is not alone in this as you know,most of his supporting cast lead by Eric Dayi believe the same thing,and they will not hear any reason or logic...

Anyway,they will get a big shock when finally Turkey's presence in Cyprus outlives its usefulness to the USA and NATO and the Turkish soldiers are ordered out...You and I will not live to see that day,thankfully...
Because I wouldn't want to see so many people's whole world collapsing on their heads. It would kill me...

Bir has you can see Kikapu has started to drown in a sea of words spouted by people who have lost their identity abroad, they have diluted themselves to a degree of non existence and their commnets do not incorporate any of the realities which we face, his text books rantings may look good on paper but in practicality will cause us the people who live on the island day in day out problems and hardship even place us in danger while he sits comfortably somewhere in Switzerland.

Why is that although we do not see eye to eye you do not sell your peoeple and lick up to GCs? these traits are expertly manipulated and used by Kikapu for me he is a traitor and unless he starts to argue points from a TC angle and go against some of the GC points he will just reconfirm time after time that he is the biggest traitor around.

[Kikapu]

Bir has you can see Kikapu has started to drown in a sea of words spouted by people who have lost their identity abroad, they have diluted themselves to a degree of non existence and their commnets do not incorporate any of the realities which we face, his text books rantings may look good on paper but in practicality will cause us the people who live on the island day in day out problems and hardship even place us in danger while he sits comfortably somewhere in Switzerland.

Can you explain, if you can that is, how are my views harmful to the TC community in Cyprus. I have only been on the forum for the last two years and the situation in the north has been as such for the last 34 years. How come you were not able to "fix" the problem all those years instead of obeying Denktash while he preached you what to expect in the promise land very soon. Well, after 34 years on, you have not achieved anything, and in fact you have kept our people back economically and politically when peace could have been achieved much much sooner. But I guess peace was not on your most urgent things to do list until 2004 just before Cyprus entered the EU and all of a sudden you had realised that everything what Denktash was preaching was just a
"pie in the sky". Well, I've had it with your constant non peace and pro partition shit for the last 2 years. It is you who have put our peoples future at risk because you have found yourself at the top of the food chain, so as long as your morally corrupt and NeoPartitionist friends were doing OK, screw the rest of the TC's. I'm in the corner of the TC's who does not have a voice. The survey last year very cleary showed that 70% of True TC's did not want a partition. I know this was a shock to you to learn that you are in the minority along with your NeoPartitionist. True TC's had enough of your false promises for their future. They want to raise their families in an "honest society" and not the "corrupt society" you have been coercing them to live in for a long time.

Why is that although we do not see eye to eye you do not sell your people and lick up to GCs? these traits are expertly manipulated and used by Kikapu for me he is a traitor and unless he starts to argue points from a TC angle and go against some of the GC points he will just reconfirm time after time that he is the biggest traitor around

.

You obviously have no idea what being a traitor is. The traitors are those who keep their people in isolation like how most dictators do so to control them. They have had enough of your bondage of them and I'll do what it takes to set them to live their lives freely in an Democratic society where every one's Human Rights are protected. Your empty words of "traitor" are the words of a desperate and a sick man who cannot fathom freedom to the TC's in an open society where Article 301 or equivalent will not be needed and that free speech can be used. We all know how much you hate Democracy and Freedom of Speech, so all I need to do is look at the person who is sprouting such words and I immediately see you as one of Hitlers foot soldiers or the TMT's terrorist groups. You are an embarrassment to Cyprus and all Cypriots. Your thoughtless actions have now started others to attack your best friend Bananiot with the same words of treason as you did. Friends like you who the fuck needs enemies. I hope Bananiot dumps your sorry ass for a friend for putting his person in danger.

So that you can prove your claim of my treasonous acts, why don't you list some of them here and let everyone read them, and if you cant, you are the biggest Fascist terrorist there is for making threats towards me. This will not be forgotten until you start acting responsibly so to protect your best friend Bananiot from "attacks". To me, what ever you say does not touch me, because I have a very thick skin to protect myself from paid propagandist and Hitler types such as yourself, that when they see their influence being eroded on the TC's by other free thinkers, you start to panic. This tells me I'm making an impact. Expect more
"you little son of a Hitler".

PS. I would appreciate if you would answer my other post to you from early today in this thread. You have the responsibility to explain to people why my views are wrong and yours are right. Rather than making empty threats and ugly labels, why don't you answer my concerns on how I see things that you want, which in my point of view is a recipe for disaster down the road. Lets see your diplomacy in action. We have already seen your Hitler tactics in action. Try and redeem yourself a little. Make me understand where is it that I'm going wrong with what the "TRNC" wants in the current peace process.

The floor is now yours. Use it wisely.!!

[humanist]

VP why do you feel that Kikapu has to argue the TC point of view. Why is it that you cannot accept that someone else has a deifferent perspective. By that you argue that I shouldn't support the argument put forth by Shahmaran the other day in relation to University places for TC's. Where I said that the RoC needs to do more on that issue. That I shouldn't argue for a virgin birth in case of unification.

A bit narrow minded there mate.

[Viewpoint]

VP why do you feel that Kikapu has to argue the TC point of view. Why is it that you cannot accept that someone else has a deifferent perspective. By that you argue that I shouldn't support the argument put forth by Shahmaran the other day in relation to University places for TC's. Where I said that the RoC needs to do more on that issue. That I shouldn't argue for a virgin birth in case of unification.

A bit narrow minded there mate.

humanist you put forwards arguments for both sides not just the TCs or the GCs, you occasionally take a different viewpoint and show flexibility, Kikapu never does this, why? Not one comment nor even a little flexibility towards TCs, he voices and supports pure GC views, ridiculing and pissing all over our concerns and fears. He is someone who with no problem what so ever can sell us out and lick GC arse to gain support, he argues harder and stronger than any GC and does their dirty work for them, therefore in my book he is dirty traitor who can stick his views where the sun don't shine and rot abroad.

His last posts reflect a man drowning in his own shit, we have argued back and forth, insulted one another for the last 2 years and he still feels that he is worthy of being taken seriously. He is a danger to all TCs and acts just like any other traitor who tried desperately by using verbal diarrhoea to push them inti a sess pit where he will wallow in his victory of selling Cyprus to the GCs and rejoice in turning Cyprus into a Greek island.

[repulsewarrior]

VP, forgive me for saying this but Kikapu's opinions are his own. none of us are representatives of the GC view, just as you are not the representative of the TC view. His view is different to yours and that is all. But, so long as he fights for Cyprus he is a Patriot, whatever the differences we have between us.