Cyprus-Forum.com

[DT.]

The TRNC government does exist. It may not be recognised, it may be illegal, it might even be an agency of an occupation force, but it is the elected assembly of real people leading real lives, on real solid ground. It exists, and to deny it exists is fantasy.

In a galaxy farfaraway there is a government with existing real people. But listen earthling, we don't recognise it, and as far as earth politics go, it doesn't figure for nought! Hahaha!

Wishing it away doesn’t make it go away.

Ask Christofias who is negotiating with it.

the leader of the turkish-cypriot community. Whats your point?

I thought it was clear.

Statement 1.
In this particular instance it doesn't matter what you, the ECHR, or anyone else thinks. The TRNC government does exist. It may not be recognised, it may be illegal, it might even be an agency of an occupation force, but it is the elected assembly of real people leading real lives, on real solid ground. It exists, and to deny it exists is fantasy.

Statement 2.
Wishing it away doesn't make it go away.

In the same way that my kids and I have the elected assembly of Apoeland. We have a flag and an elected leader (i lost to the short one) and even laws. It exists in my kids minds, I guess you're looking at it the same way.

[observer]

If your family numbers tens of thousands, has an army, has a police force, has a customs and immigration department, has a territory they have physical juristiction over, sends delegations to talk to the EU, UN etc. and receives representatives in return, issues stamps which are accepted around the world for postage, issues passports and visas for entrants, records births, deaths and marriages, holds free and fair elections to your parliament, collects taxes, has law courts, runs schools ..... then yes, it is a government from the verb "to govern" = to rule or control the public affairs of a country, city etc.

PS Sorry you lost your election

[BirKibrisli]

We are not going to get anywhere until we face the truth, however painful it might be...the trnc exists,no doubt about that...But it is an illegal state...No doubt about that either...The settlers came,some encouraged some on their own initiative,the are real people....But they are in Cyprus illegally...And against international laws of occupation etc...There is no doubt about that either...When a solution comes these people have to be repatriated...There will be exceptions,especially those who married Cypriots,or those who were born in Cyprus...Those of us who know the pain of having to leave our place of birth,our emotional and spiritual homes,could not possibly want to impose the same on anybody else...Empathy and compassion cannot be selective...It must be universal...When we understand this and practise it, we will be 85 % closer to a solution...Not before...

[observer]

Bir, I think you've got it. To deny the existence of TRNC is foolish. Outside Cyprus all this 'pseudo-this' and 'pseudo-that' is regarded as a joke. The RoC pretending it represents the TC community is just as foolish. It's necessary to acknowledge reality before any progress can be made.

I think that we are also very close on our thoughts when it comes to repatriation, which in my opinion must be voluntary. There has been too much forced movement of people in Cyprus.

It's not as though there is a shortage of land. RoC comes 111th in the world's population density table, and TRNC 117th according to wikopedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... on_density
By coincidence in the same area as Greece (114th) and Turkey (98th).

[DT.]

If your family numbers tens of thousands

,
So its a matter of numbers? Is 10, 100 or 1000 good? Who decides this?

has an army, has a police force

,
My daughter is appointed as official lawman of the Apoeland. There are 3 laws and if you break either of them you get thrown in the sandpit.

has a customs and immigration department, has a territory they have physical juristiction over,

Well we legally own our own property which is much more than some people in the north can say. We have jurisdiction over it. Outside law enforcers need a special warrant to come in without permission (a bit like interpol) We also choose who comes in and who doesn't. We don't allow drugs in either so I guess the customs part of our front door is working well.

sends delegations to talk to the EU

,
I myself have been received in the same capacity as your polticians have been received in the EU. As a private citizen.
,

issues stamps which are accepted around the world for postage

,
DHL is our outsourced national postoffice

issues passports and visas for entrants

,
We have our own family ID cards my son made in Kindergarden.


,

holds free and fair elections to your parliament

,
You may have got me here, I'm sure that squirt counted the dog as his vote.

collects taxes,

Wife

has law courts,

Wife

..... then yes, it is a government from the verb "to govern" = to rule or control the public affairs of a country, city etc.

PS Sorry you lost your election

thanks

[observer]

Very amusing (really). I hope you enjoyed writing it as much as I enjoyed reading it.

I still think Bir has a firmer grip on reality.

[Nikitas]

Birs said:

"Those of us who know the pain of having to leave our place of birth,our emotional and spiritual homes,could not possibly want to impose the same on anybody else.."

Yes Bir, but there is a vast difference between those of us who have NOWHERE else to call home and those who came as part of a conquering wave and have a place they call home. In fact they probably feel more in touch with their real home than the one that was arbitrarily given to them.

It would be ironic to keep a Morphiot, now living in Limassol, off his land because it was given to someone from Erzerum. Until we express ourselves clearly about this issue we are not going to get very far. Peace is impossible with settlers in the picture.

[BirKibrisli]

Birs said:

"Those of us who know the pain of having to leave our place of birth,our emotional and spiritual homes,could not possibly want to impose the same on anybody else.."

Yes Bir, but there is a vast difference between those of us who have NOWHERE else to call home and those who came as part of a conquering wave and have a place they call home. In fact they probably feel more in touch with their real home than the one that was arbitrarily given to them.

It would be ironic to keep a Morphiot, now living in Limassol, off his land because it was given to someone from Erzerum. Until we express ourselves clearly about this issue we are not going to get very far. Peace is impossible with settlers in the picture.

I was thinking more of those second generation settlers who are born in Cyprus,Nikitas...There must be quite a few of them by now...

But I agree,the Cypriot refugees will have to be accomodated first...The clear rule as far as I am concerned is : the original owner gets to pick what he/she/they want...The newcomers will have to move on and make room...I am sure most settlers would be happy to go back voluntarily if proper compensation can be arranged...I just hate the idea of forcing anyone who was born and bred in Cyprus to leave their homeland...