Cyprus-Forum.com

[observer]

Oracle:

Futile attempts at diverting attention from the real most mighty perpetrator of racism, ethnic cleansing and genocide, which undeniably by all major authorities ... which does not include you, observer ... is Turkey and its people ...... and millions of Kurds, Armenians (such as are left) etc will agree with me and not you.

Thank you for not including me!

But once again, is this not a case of make a statement - Oracle asks for evidence - provide the evidence - Oracle moves the goal posts and asks another question - provide the evidence - Oracle moves the goal posts and asks another question?

This is a Cyprus Forum, and I have no intention of taking on the question of the Kurds, Armenians, or any other people that you feel have been damaged by the Turks. For what its worth, Kurds and Armenians, historically and now, have been pretty unpleasant to the Turks too - and no! Go look for the information yourself!

[Oracle]

Oracle:

Futile attempts at diverting attention from the real most mighty perpetrator of racism, ethnic cleansing and genocide, which undeniably by all major authorities ... which does not include you, observer ... is Turkey and its people ...... and millions of Kurds, Armenians (such as are left) etc will agree with me and not you.

Thank you for not including me!

But once again, is this not a case of make a statement - Oracle asks for evidence - provide the evidence - Oracle moves the goal posts and asks another question - provide the evidence - Oracle moves the goal posts and asks another question?

This is a Cyprus Forum, and I have no intention of taking on the question of the Kurds, Armenians, or any other people that you feel have been damaged by the Turks. For what its worth, Kurds and Armenians, historically and now, have been pretty unpleasant to the Turks too - and no! Go look for the information yourself!

No observer you brought in other nationalities first:

Our Turks are here to stay. Your Pontians, Sri-Lankans, Filipinos etc are here to stay if they have lived on Cyprus for 5 years plus.

Get used to being a multi-cultural EU country.

.... and now you don't like to be reminded of who the real racists are (on the most massive scale imaginable) ...... i.e. Turkey ..... you attempt another wriggling act.

Well there are Kurds and Armenians in Cyprus too ... and our problem is their problem too and vice versa ...

[observer]

I think that it's fairly clear, however loose the language, that I was speaking of people living in Cyprus - whatever their nationality or background - while you were introducing the problems of other regions in or close to Turkey. There are certainly many people of Kurdish background in Cyprus, probably the majority of them living in TRNC, proud of their Kurdish background AND their Turkish nationality. Your comment about their problem being your (GC) problem is very wide of the mark.

[Oracle]

I think that it's fairly clear, however loose the language, that I was speaking of people living in Cyprus - whatever their nationality or background - while you were introducing the problems of other regions in or close to Turkey. There are certainly many people of Kurdish background in Cyprus, probably the majority of them living in TRNC, proud of their Kurdish background AND their Turkish nationality. Your comment about their problem being your (GC) problem is very wide of the mark.

Your loose language is a problem I'm afraid .... as you brought up the issue of racism which by its very definition would include other "races", you threw in a number of nationalities, but I am not allowed to ... and then you wish to set limits and borders to restrict the implications of the perniciousness of Turkish racism, genocide, ethnic cleansing of many nationalities ... the real Mega-problem.

[Oracle]

Yes, your comments were racist. And you're the one who is advocating ethnic cleansing now by demanding that Turkish people who have arrived in Cyprus since 1974 be removed.

Say I agree with this. Would you agree with the 74 cleansing of GC's form north Cyprus as just that? Ethnc Cleansing? If not what would you call it?

I'm not sure if your first sentence is "Say! I agree with this!" indicating enthusiastic approval, or "Say, "I agree with this."", asking me to confirm that I agree with something I have already said. Perhaps you can clarify.

For what it's worth, I agree with what I said.

The term 'ethnic cleansing' is a recent one, perhaps not applicable to 1974. Ignoring its more recent introduction, however, I think that all involved used ethnic cleansing, as I understand it, in a much more limited way than simple sloganising would have it.

Ethnic cleansing, as understood by me, means using force to expel a race. The majority of people (both sides) fled because of what they feared might happen rather than because anyone said, "Go, or I will kill you". This makes them refugees, or in modern language (I think) internally displaced persons.

The first case of ethnic cleansing since World War II is precisely that carried out by Turkey in Cyprus in 1974.

And yes they did forcibly remove the GCs ... under threat of guns and deposition in coaches never to be seen again ...

Whereas the TCs were free to go or stay if they wished ..... and they are still free to come back to the south ..... and do!

[unitedwestand]

Yes, your comments were racist. And you're the one who is advocating ethnic cleansing now by demanding that Turkish people who have arrived in Cyprus since 1974 be removed.

Say I agree with this. Would you agree with the 74 cleansing of GC's form north Cyprus as just that? Ethnc Cleansing? If not what would you call it?

I'm not sure if your first sentence is "Say! I agree with this!" indicating enthusiastic approval, or "Say, "I agree with this."", asking me to confirm that I agree with something I have already said. Perhaps you can clarify.

For what it's worth, I agree with what I said.

The term 'ethnic cleansing' is a recent one, perhaps not applicable to 1974. Ignoring its more recent introduction, however, I think that all involved used ethnic cleansing, as I understand it, in a much more limited way than simple sloganising would have it.

Ethnic cleansing, as understood by me, means using force to expel a race. The majority of people (both sides) fled because of what they feared might happen rather than because anyone said, "Go, or I will kill you". This makes them refugees, or in modern language (I think) internally displaced persons.

The first case of ethnic cleansing since World War II is precisely that carried out by Turkey in Cyprus in 1974.

And yes they did forcibly remove the GCs ... under threat of guns and deposition in coaches never to be seen again ...

Whereas the TCs were free to go or stay if they wished ..... and they are still free to come back to the south ..... and do!

Ever thought of becoming a stand-up comedian Oracle?

[Oracle]

Yes, your comments were racist. And you're the one who is advocating ethnic cleansing now by demanding that Turkish people who have arrived in Cyprus since 1974 be removed.

Say I agree with this. Would you agree with the 74 cleansing of GC's form north Cyprus as just that? Ethnc Cleansing? If not what would you call it?

I'm not sure if your first sentence is "Say! I agree with this!" indicating enthusiastic approval, or "Say, "I agree with this."", asking me to confirm that I agree with something I have already said. Perhaps you can clarify.

For what it's worth, I agree with what I said.

The term 'ethnic cleansing' is a recent one, perhaps not applicable to 1974. Ignoring its more recent introduction, however, I think that all involved used ethnic cleansing, as I understand it, in a much more limited way than simple sloganising would have it.

Ethnic cleansing, as understood by me, means using force to expel a race. The majority of people (both sides) fled because of what they feared might happen rather than because anyone said, "Go, or I will kill you". This makes them refugees, or in modern language (I think) internally displaced persons.

The first case of ethnic cleansing since World War II is precisely that carried out by Turkey in Cyprus in 1974.

And yes they did forcibly remove the GCs ... under threat of guns and deposition in coaches never to be seen again ...

Whereas the TCs were free to go or stay if they wished ..... and they are still free to come back to the south ..... and do!

Ever thought of becoming a stand-up comedian Oracle?

I prefer sitting down when I type ...

[Nikitas]

"Yes, your comments were racist. And you're the one who is advocating ethnic cleansing now by demanding that Turkish people who have arrived in Cyprus since 1974 be removed. "

It is not only Oracle, I for one have made clear and definite posts to this effect. Settlers have no place in a modern state. The importation of settlers was a foolish policy established by Turkey. Many TCs, including politicians and commentators are also in favor of removing settlers.

No one is advocating violent expulsion or splitting families. Those who are married to Cypriots stay. The rest get compensated and leave. The compensation level should be such that it will allow them to invest in their place of origin and live well.

The reason for wanting settlers out is simple: it is ridiculous to allow settlers to stay while having no policy to attract back to Cyprus Cypriots who were forced to leave by circumstances of the past. As a Cypriot I feel insulted about the preoccupation with the settlers while no one gives a flying fuck about me and my plight. I was prevented from returning to CYprus after my studies because there was no work and I, as thousands of others, had to find work and made a life away from my home. Asking me to accept some settler as more deserving of living in Cyprus after a settlement is reached is adding insult to injury.

In case you think that I am advocating the rights of expat GCs to return, then I am willing to accept a financial incentive scheme to encourage only TCs to return and for that I would be willing to contribute extra taxes.

Cyprus for Cypriots!

[RAFAELLA]

As a result of the Turkish invasion, the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe, stated that the demographic structure of the island has been continuously modified as a result of the deliberate policies of the Turks. Despite the lack of consensus on the exact figures, all parties concerned admit that Turkish nationals have been systematically arriving in the northern part of the island. Some suggest, that over 120,000 settlers were brought into Cyprus from mainland Turkey.
This was despite Article 49 of the Geneva Convention stating that "The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies."

UN Resolution 1987/19 (1987) of the "Sub-Commission On Prevention Of Discrimination And Protection Of Minorities" which was adopted on 2 September 1987 demanded "the full restoration of all human rights to the whole population of Cyprus, including the freedom of movement, the freedom of settlement and the right to property" and also expressed "its concern also at the policy and practice of the implantation of settlers in the occupied territories of Cyprus which constitute a form of colonialism and attempt to change illegally the demographic structure of Cyprus".

The Oslo peace center studied the number of Turkish citizens in the north, and after removing transients (i.e Turkish troops, support staff, migrant workers, students), and Turks with legitimate links to Cyprus (i.e. those with Cypriot family) they estimated 37,000 Turks reside on the island.

[Oracle]

"Yes, your comments were racist. And you're the one who is advocating ethnic cleansing now by demanding that Turkish people who have arrived in Cyprus since 1974 be removed. "

It is not only Oracle, I for one have made clear and definite posts to this effect. Settlers have no place in a modern state. The importation of settlers was a foolish policy established by Turkey. Many TCs, including politicians and commentators are also in favor of removing settlers.

No one is advocating violent expulsion or splitting families. Those who are married to Cypriots stay. The rest get compensated and leave. The compensation level should be such that it will allow them to invest in their place of origin and live well.

The reason for wanting settlers out is simple: it is ridiculous to allow settlers to stay while having no policy to attract back to Cyprus Cypriots who were forced to leave by circumstances of the past. As a Cypriot I feel insulted about the preoccupation with the settlers while no one gives a flying fuck about me and my plight. I was prevented from returning to CYprus after my studies because there was no work and I, as thousands of others, had to find work and made a life away from my home. Asking me to accept some settler as more deserving of living in Cyprus after a settlement is reached is adding insult to injury.

In case you think that I am advocating the rights of expat GCs to return, then I am willing to accept a financial incentive scheme to encourage only TCs to return and for that I would be willing to contribute extra taxes.

Cyprus for Cypriots!

Unfortunately Nikitas, the game they are playing is to call anyone who wants the illegal settlers to be repatriated a racist ... when the issue has nothing to do with their race ... as settlers could constitute any number of a wide ranging group of people.

It is the means by which they arrived on the island that is problematic ..... not their substance.

Yet it is this precise practice of Turkey, discriminatory ethnic cleansing against one group of people the GCs .... which by all definitions is the true "racism" ... but they do not acknowledge this but just wish to label others of what they clearly practice routinely and constantly for every minute they employ troops in Cyprus to keep the GCs from returning to their rightful homes.