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The Turkish Chimpanzees vs the Cypriot Bonobo ....

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby denizaksulu » Wed May 07, 2008 1:15 pm

Oracle wrote:
denizaksulu wrote:
Oracle wrote:
denizaksulu wrote:
Oracle wrote:An abridged version of an article to familiarise further the concept of our cousins' behaviour and its mirroring by us ....

Bonobos are docile less aggressive or murderous, and possess many of the psychological traits we value most, including altruism, compassion, empathy, kindness, patience and sensitivity.

Today our human world is characterised by war, oppression and terror.

Common chimps also have a reputation for aggression and bloodshed.

The Bonobo

Can they teach us to be more tolerant? What would it take to turn on our inner bonobo?

Nobody has been able to put their finger on exactly what makes this ape so different. What is becoming clear now though is that its behaviour is influenced less by its nature - the genes - and more by its environment, culture and learning. What bonobos eat, how they structure their social interactions, and their ability to pass on certain psychological attitudes from one generation to another all seem to play a part. That being so, there may indeed be lessons we can draw about how to make human society more peaceable.

At most, there are a few hundred thousand bonobos left in the wild.

…. On the face of it, their habitat looks very similar to a chimpanzee's, although the latter are much more widely distributed. The habits of the two species couldn't be more different, though.

Put bluntly, bonobos are nice because the environment they live in is nice.

….. but studies at zoos do indicate that chimpanzees flexibly adjust to new environments and are capable of holding their aggression in check.


[Studies of other primates (Baboons) also show they can quickly learn to be more or less aggressive as their environment changes. Removal of aggressive males led to the appearance of a passive culture.]

..... if aggression works, any animal will use it. "It isn't an inherited characteristic," Hohmann says. The converse is also true. "With the bonobos, team work currently pays off, violence does not. If their environment were to change, so too would their behaviours."

Where does this leave humans? As primates ourselves are we slaves to our environment or can we rise above it? "Our environment does shape our inner ape," argues de Waal. "We can cooperate like the bonobos and be competitive like the chimps,

…..Yet we have a remarkable capacity for peaceful cooperation not just in our daily dealings with each other but also in international organisations - consider, for instance, the ideas upon which the United Nations was founded.

From issue 2580 of New Scientist magazine, 30 November 2006, page 40-43



Oracle, dont you think that these articles you are posting here are wasted? They are more suitable for entry in the 'Nature' magazine. Perhaps some others will find them stimulating or see any connection to the Cypprob.

It was only yesterday you were telling me of the need to travel further east than Turkey to find 'Turks'. You are confusing yourself. :lol:


The take home message is very positive. If lower apes can be made less aggressive by improving their environment, then there is hope for us.

I want to put an end to the "racist" myths flying around that say we are so different as groups genetically, that we are what we are by nature, and so there is not point fighting it, we just have to live apart! :roll:

The behavioral elements, which do differ greatly I must admit and make us appear worlds apart, can be manipulated / ameliorated with the right education and governmental guidance.

We are after all just animals, just Great Apes (although I found it exceedingly difficult to make a few forumers understand that fact without bruising their over-inflated egos) ... but we have a vast capacity for change, employment of Free Will and foresight aplenty! :D



:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

Just two errors - typographical? Maybe. You are improving.

I am worried about your great apes. Their numbers are in decline; faster than the chimps.


Sorry :roll: .... son was showing me a cartoon in the Beano whilst I was typing.

Which declining Great Apes are you referring to GCs or TCs? :?

(BTW Chimps are also Great Apes .... but don't overuse the term as it offends Eric and Big Al .... :wink: ).



Who? The Greek nation ofcourse. What is the RoC Gov offering now (in Euros) to encourage population growth? Is it working yet? Is the south full of 'pregnant' Cypriots?
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Postby repulsewarrior » Fri May 09, 2008 12:54 am

stress causes hormonal changes, testosterone (quantities of it) affects/effects males and females differently. within the social unit, nurturing is most apparent, an effort by animals to reduce stress. leaving the confines of this circle thus, is for stress (replenishing hormones), as in hunting, and foraging for food. Internally, a balance is kept that is chemical when this choice exists. Externally stress has a value too, but not if conditions discount the value of a sense of "home". I suppose that all animals can suffer mental illnesses from stress.
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Postby shahmaran » Fri May 09, 2008 11:50 am

I came across this funny but not so new article, not entirely related but relevant I thought.

The Cypriots can be happy to know that they are listed just above Turkey AND the US, regarding the acceptance of the Evolutionary Theory, yet they can have another thought about the fact that they are still at the bottom of the list world wide along with the US and Turkey, shameful really :lol:

I must say I was not surprised about Turkey, but the US AND the ever so self centered/"modern EU member" Cyprus?!?! :o

I wonder if they only mean the RoC, or has the RoC dragged us down with them?

I doubt anyone bothered counting us, if they had, I have a feeling we might not have been at the bottom of this list :roll:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... ution.html

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Postby Oracle » Fri May 09, 2008 1:30 pm

Great research Shahmaran! The forum should bestow you with an Honorary Doctorate :wink:

Really interesting and explains why the likes of Big Al and Eric were so insulted ... I had such a time trying to make them realise not only that we are animals but Apes too ... all those posts have been deleted now I see :lol:

Darwin might as well have never existed as far as the Americans are concerned, and although I would have hazarded a guess that Turks and Cypriots were almost as bad, I did not realise there is such a steep learning curve to climb.

Well we should keep hammering the message home that we are just one species within the Animal Kingdom, governed a lot in our behaviour by our genes (which serve to identify us as the same ... not different) .... but because of our evolutionary rank, we have the ability to change anything we do not like.

Social animals achieve peace and co-operation through "reciprocity" and we need to think about applying this more to political problem solving.

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=14428
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Postby shahmaran » Fri May 09, 2008 1:39 pm

Well Phoenix, I might have never said this here before, but this time I couldn't possibly agree with you more! :lol:
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Postby alexISS » Fri May 09, 2008 1:42 pm

Accepting "a" theory of evolution is the easy part.
Most religious people I know have no problem reconciling the theory of evolution with the existence of a divine being, they just attribute the whole human evolution process to it. Understanding and accepting the mechanism of evolution, natural selection, is the true challenge
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Postby Oracle » Fri May 09, 2008 1:48 pm

shahmaran wrote:Well Phoenix, I might have never said this here before, but this time I couldn't possibly agree with you more! :lol:


OK ..... Dr. Shah, you work on your people and I'll work on mine! :lol: .... and we'll have convergent evolution towards the perfect blended Cypriot.

(...... who will rise up and dominate the rest of the primitive Apes :wink: )
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Postby shahmaran » Fri May 09, 2008 1:57 pm

Oracle wrote:
shahmaran wrote:Well Phoenix, I might have never said this here before, but this time I couldn't possibly agree with you more! :lol:


OK ..... Dr. Shah, you work on your people and I'll work on mine! :lol: .... and we'll have convergent evolution towards the perfect blended Cypriot.

(...... who will rise up and dominate the rest of the primitive Apes :wink: )


Deal Dr. Phoenix, we shall check back once a month and see how we are doing, I have less people to deal with so once I'm done here I can come down and give you a hand, our goal is to beat Iceland in the next 5 years! :lol:

But don't you think it would be easier to dominate the primitive apes if we keep them primitive :wink:


AlexISS how can they combine Evolution with Creation and still manage to sleep at night?

Unless they can cleverly suggest that God has created us as Apes at first and thrown in the Evolutionary process just to confuse the hell out of us later on in the future...

Or maybe its another one of those God's faithfulness tests :lol:
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Postby denizaksulu » Fri May 09, 2008 2:58 pm

shahmaran wrote:Well Phoenix, I might have never said this here before, but this time I couldn't possibly agree with you more! :lol:



Shah, dont be fooled. I believe Oracles' son has been at the keyboard.

There is hope yet. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby Magnus » Sun Aug 10, 2008 1:39 pm

Turkish evolution in action...

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