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Clashes mark May Day in Turkey

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby umit07 » Thu May 01, 2008 4:19 pm

boomerang wrote:Thanks Umit...

Actually the article I was reading said 30,000 security personnel were deployed...

Why is it bullshit?

here is the link

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/D19092A6-47E1-4E1A-BDD4-F8A4E080FBF3.htm


The square they wanted to celebrate is the "main square" of Istanbul it's the place were they celebrate, mourn and rally. The unions should like everyone else be given the chance to use the square. Something that happened in 1977 isn't an cannot be an excuse. They deployed 9000 in the vicinity of the square many more in other parts of istanbul. So far they only found some molotof's which were gonna be used by some Kurds to stir up some trouble.
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Postby Paphitis » Thu May 01, 2008 4:29 pm

shahmaran wrote:
Paphitis wrote:So how do you feel about the proposal hitting the negotiating commitees about the TAF being replaced with Australian and Canadian troops?


What?

You mean the Turkish Armed Forces in Cyprus being replaced with them?

Can you clarify please, or give a link...


I can provide you with an article written by Sener Levent. In the article is a candid portrail of a discussion between Turgut Ozal and Bush senior about every single TAF soldier being removed from Cyprus and replaced with Australian and Canadian troops.

Presumably to protect you TCs from those daft GCs who want to genocide you TCs, but even more so to protect Western and NATO interests. OMG I am starting to sound like Eric Genocide! :oops:

The article is a Greek translation. What say you?
Last edited by Paphitis on Thu May 01, 2008 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Paphitis » Thu May 01, 2008 4:45 pm

In the same conversation, Bush reminded Turgut Ozal that the main purpose of TAF troops on Cyprus is to serve NATO and definately not to protect the TCs as both US and Turkey could not give a rats about you TCs. Something the GCs have known for a very long time but the TCs fail to recognise! As I said, a very candid conversation between Ozal and Bush with Sener Levent being the author of this article.
Last edited by Paphitis on Thu May 01, 2008 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Paphitis » Thu May 01, 2008 4:49 pm

Sorry folks. I am going to have to retire now. It is getting late in Australia.

I will leave you all to ponder what I have said first and post all the evidence you require tomorrow after I see what you all have to say about this matter.

:D 8)
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Postby shahmaran » Thu May 01, 2008 4:56 pm

Hmm sounds interesting except i cant speak Greek :?
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Postby cypezokyli » Thu May 01, 2008 9:40 pm

thats why turkey is such an interesting country!

trade unions were traditionally not liked by the capital, and since the capital was cooperating with the army, the good old army brutally attacked them.... thats back in the 70s, and the work was completed with coup No3.

The CHP, once kemalist, then made a left turn, and now sucking the armies ass, could be in a dilemma. remember its left past and celebrate the Ist of May....which it can also use against erdogan..... but then.... that would insult the beloved army, which is right now their only chance to get to power.

Erdogan, has of course his problems with the generals, but since he has the bulk of the new capital on his side, cannot really celebrate trade unions, even if they were also attacked by the army.

if one considers that the army after coup No3, promoted religious education to deal with the left, the whole thing becomes absurd.


whats the power of the trade unions nowadays in turkey ?
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Postby boomerang » Fri May 02, 2008 1:23 am

umit07 wrote:
boomerang wrote:Thanks Umit...

Actually the article I was reading said 30,000 security personnel were deployed...

Why is it bullshit?

here is the link

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/D19092A6-47E1-4E1A-BDD4-F8A4E080FBF3.htm


The square they wanted to celebrate is the "main square" of Istanbul it's the place were they celebrate, mourn and rally. The unions should like everyone else be given the chance to use the square. Something that happened in 1977 isn't an cannot be an excuse. They deployed 9000 in the vicinity of the square many more in other parts of istanbul. So far they only found some molotof's which were gonna be used by some Kurds to stir up some trouble.


I would have thought the main power base of AKP would have been the blue collar workers, so it makes no sence in banning the celebrations...
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Postby Big Al » Fri May 02, 2008 1:34 am

boomerang wrote:
umit07 wrote:
boomerang wrote:Thanks Umit...

Actually the article I was reading said 30,000 security personnel were deployed...

Why is it bullshit?

here is the link

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/D19092A6-47E1-4E1A-BDD4-F8A4E080FBF3.htm


The square they wanted to celebrate is the "main square" of Istanbul it's the place were they celebrate, mourn and rally. The unions should like everyone else be given the chance to use the square. Something that happened in 1977 isn't an cannot be an excuse. They deployed 9000 in the vicinity of the square many more in other parts of istanbul. So far they only found some molotof's which were gonna be used by some Kurds to stir up some trouble.


I would have thought the main power base of AKP would have been the blue collar workers, so it makes no sence in banning the celebrations...


Boomers, i think the main supporters of the AK Party are rural people, farmers etc, they are usually more religious than the city folk.
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Postby cypezokyli » Sun May 04, 2008 10:13 am

How the AKP's 'protestant capitalism' chastises workers
Saturday, May 3, 2008



Cengiz AKTAR

The mess regarding the forbidden Labor Day rally in Taksim Square in Istanbul was appalling. Overt threats from the authorities of “no rallies will be allowed in Taksim and no one will take responsibility if something bad happens” were preparing the public opinion for days. Threats were mimicking the most primitive approach in the world that caused the May 1 celebrations to be banned in the past century and tried to tame workers by beating them up. This was so obvious, especially when compared to the Turkish Industrialists' and Businessmen's Association's (TUSIAD) liberal approach to the celebrations.Turkey being dragged into an unprincipled vulgar growth model with no democracy, like in China, is nothing new. Following the 1980 military coup d'état, the trade union movement and leftist opposition fell to pieces. Today the labor advocacy is so weak that for instance the Limter-İş Union is simply fighting to save the lives of workers working in shipyards, let alone securing their wage increases.

Whoever works wins:

One does not need to be professor of economics to figure out how the shallow idioms such as “common rabble” and “whoever works wins,” made by the governing Justice and Development Party (AKP) top officials referring to the workers, are far away from understanding the modern labor world. Today to secure labor rights one should rather show devout community allegiance. This ferocious and unprincipled growth approach does not pay regard to workers but neither to the environment: Environment-unfriendly golf courses, skyscrapers, coal plants, indiscriminate mineral exploration and irrational hydraulic dams are all over the country. As a beginner in economic affairs, the AKP's foolhardy development approach against the human and nature gives the impression that we're living in the 18th century!Today the hardline of Cemil Çiçek, government spokesman, dominates the government as more as it implies concessions to the status quo, subservience to the state, looking sympathetic thanks to crude nationalism and a tendency toward labor-hostile cliches of the state. A political movement like the AKP deriving from the periphery of the center adopts this attitude enthusiastically; that's pathetic and dangerous. The AKP didn't understand that its legitimacy derives from its social and reformist action, not from the stately reflexes. The more it closes up to the state, the more it loses its character. Pages-long sociological analyses exist on how the newly rich jumping to a higher class become cruel toward the less successful, on how they look down on the place they came from and on how they emulate the upper class. To this, a protestant-like religious dimension is being added in Turkey.Cliches like “the man who works hard wins,” “God will be generous toward hard workers,” or another one by the prime minister who suggested to a complaining man to “work harder” are in line with the tradition of allegiance in Islam and being resigned to God. However, to what degree is the allegiance recommended to people convincing when compared to the skyrocketing fortunes of pro-AKP business circles? Besides, one can ask, “Is there a job that you want me to work hard in?”The AKP's pro-status quo deviation clearly emerged in the Kurdish issue, and now the hostility toward the left and workers is being added on top. The prime minister, who has never uttered the word “left” before, pronounced it recently with a negative connotation in connection with the leftist opposition to the Social Security Law. And recently he let another extremely unfortunate and unnecessary cat out of the bag. But one utters whatever is in his mind. And in fact no disclaimer has been published so far. Neither did he deny it. Specialists argue that his words are copied from an early hadith by caliph Ali.



It is not just Baykal:

In its relations with the state, the AKP always prefers to live together by adjusting its own turf first. That was, and still is, the case in the aftermath of the April 27 military e-memorandum. It is very doubtful that, if acquitted in the closure case, the AKP would start a brand new page for democracy. Quite to the contrary, it is most likely that being acquitted would mean sticking to power by getting closer to the state. Therefore the most serious danger awaiting the country is the substitution of the reformist period, which has continued since 1983 with a climax in the period of 2002-2004, with a long period of restoration, with or without the AKP in the driving seat. The AKP got used to the opposition from Baykal and made itself believe that the opposition consists of only Baykal to such an extent that it has started to think politics means getting into cock-fights with Baykal. There are plenty of other oppositional forces beside Baykal's, more colorful and pro-reform. In the future, a contest will take place between pro-restoration forces and this authentic opposition.
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Postby cypezokyli » Sun May 04, 2008 10:14 am

The 'Ankara-ization' of the Islamo-liberal AKP?
Saturday, May 3, 2008




As often said, nothing is as powerful as an idea whose time has come. The AKP just needs to make sure that it sticks to the right idea

Mustafa AKYOL

On May 1, Istanbul was like a city ruled by marshal law. Drones of policemen tried to “protect” Taksim Square from workers and left-wing groups who had been craving to “celebrate” Workers’ Day in this crucial spot, which had become the area of tragic deaths in 1977, in those heydays of Turkish communism and anti-communism. The tensions between the police and demonstrators turned into a street war conducted by tear gas, rubber bullets and pavement stones.

I have never been a fan of the idea of declaring May 1 a national holiday — it is, after all, a day of the political left, not the whole nation. Yet I think workers and others — the socialists, Leninists, Trotskyites, Maoists, etc. — should be able to celebrate it wherever they want. Police should interfere, of course, if they go wild. But pre-emptive interference is not a good idea. It just makes it certain that things will go wild.

Islamic versus nationalist:

This is not what I want to talk about today, though. What I have found particularly interesting in this whole May Day war was the rhetoric used by some officials. The AKP (Justice and Development Party) government, which itself is currently under the threat of our all-powerful state, praised “state authority” in the face of workers. “The state will not accept being challenged,” declared Justice Minister Mehmet Ali Şahin. “No, the state does not allow being challenged.” And two weeks ago, Prime Minister Erdoğan had created a controversy by arguing, “The foot should not mess with the head.” He had sounded as if he were one of the classical Ankara bureaucrats who look down upon the unwashed masses.

I believe Erdoğan must be sorry with what he said. But this whole Taksim affair, along with other signs such as the much-debated decline in AKP’s reformism in the past two years, tell us something. My sense is that a process, which can be called the "Ankara-ization" of the AKP, is at work. The party, which actually represents Turkey’s “periphery,” is coming to the “center” and internalizing some of the latter’s illiberal attitudes. The belief in “state authority” starts to ascend over social and individual liberty.

It might be worthwhile to recall Ibn Khaldun here, the medieval Muslim scholar who is sometimes considered as the forerunner of sociology. One of Khaldun's famous analyses was about the barbarians of the desert who conquered sophisticated coastal cities. Before their conquest, and right after, these barbarians had a strong zeal and impetus. But once they settled and became masters of the cities whose elites they had overthrown, they started to internalize the established habits. Then, eventually, the former barbarians were conquered by a new set of barbarians, who would repeat the process.

I am in no way likening the AKP to Khaldun's barbarians. I am just saying that conquering a system often transforms the conquerors. This might be a good thing, a bad thing, or a hybrid. In AKP’s case, it seems to a hybrid, but a one which tends to have more negative effects than positive ones. And what is striking is that the negative sides come from not the customary Islamic identity of the AKP, but its newly emerging “Turkishness,” which implies a more nationalist and illiberal stance on many issues.

Ömer Taşpınar, the co-director of the US-Turkey project at the Washington-based Brookings Institution, had captured this brilliantly in his column in Today’s Zaman early this year. In his piece titled “Nostalgia for the old AK Party,” (Jan. 21, 2008) he noted the following:

“The philosophy of the [AK Party] was never Islam pure and simple. The core ideology of the AK Party was the famous Turkish-Islamic synthesis of the 1970s. Since the July 2007 election, however, the balance between Islam and Turkishness is rapidly changing in favor of the latter. In other words, the party is becoming less Islamic but more nationalistic. This is bad news for liberals who support the AK Party for reasons connected to the European Union. I have personally begun to develop a sense of nostalgia for the old AK Party, the one with Islamic proclivities instead of nationalist tendencies.”

Of course the “Islamic proclivities” of AKP would be hardly impressive if they were an extension of Milli Görüş — the Islamist line of the Erbakan tradition, that AKP had in fact denounced. They were rather the expressions of a synthesis between Islamic values and liberal politics, which has a history in Turkey dating back to the late Ottoman Empire. In politics, it was Turgut Özal who put this “Islamo-liberal” synthesis in action between 1983-93. And after ten years in the wilderness, the same tradition had come back to life with AKP’s incumbency in 2002.

Stick to the right idea:

Therefore those who are asking from AKP to de-Islamize its value system and replace it with the orthodoxy of Ankara are dead wrong. That would make AKP just another dry, boring, and reactionary party. The people who love such parties already go for the CHP or the MHP. Why would they prefer a quasi-illiberal AKP to the fully illiberal ones? Moreover, it is obvious that the real citadel of illiberalism, the state establishment, will never like the AKP folks no matter what they do. It is just an unnecessary effort to try to become a part of their club — as evidenced by the closure case. So, the only way out is to change the definition of the club, and even disband it.

Thus the AKP folks indeed should keep their distance from the Ankara orthodoxy, but make sure that their commitment is toward the Islamo-liberal synthesis, not to Milli Görüş. This means that the party should be more open-minded in issues relating to the rights of Kurds, Alevis, Christians and other cultural minorities. They also need to be bolder in their stance for the freedom of speech, and they should prove that they are in favor of pluralism in the media.

If that turns out to be the case, the party will continue to be Turkey’s best hope. Even if the Constitutional Court decides to close it, it will go on with another name, and with a different team. As often said, nothing is as powerful as an idea whose time has come. And the AKP just needs to make sure that it sticks to the right idea.
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