Cyprus-Forum.com

[Bananiot]

Kucuk was alright. He took a lot of stick from GC MP's during the first years of the republic because in general Greeks looked down on the Turks.

[Main_Source]

Kucuk was one of the people who brought around the idea of Taksim during the 50's.

[MicAtCyp]

So MicAtCyp you feel there was no need to retreat into enclaves? TCs were perfectly safe living amongst GCs, my family lived through the period and I can assure you the fear was very intense and GCs turned against TCs. We could not freely speak our language or visit certain areas of Cyprus, dont you think that ironic maybe the current situation is payback time.

That was not my point. My point was the enclave regions were formed before the need/or no need to retreat into them. Can’t you see the difference?

And by the way VP don't sell me your "fear" crap. I lived during those years and I know exactly which of the TCs lived in fear.Why don't you admit that either your father or your big brother or your next door uncle were actually TMT officers? Thats why they had every reason to live in fear!

For your information my father was a merchant. He was not only having commercial but also social relations even with TCs who lived in the enclaves.However those relations were never without fear.The poor people were afraid to be seen having relations with a GC . They were even afraid to do bussiness with my father when another TC was watching. Tell me why.
My uncle was the first exporter of agricultural products from Cyprus. He was a partner with a TC. They both builted a factory in Mia Milia Industrial area that unfortunately only worked for one year before the 1974 Invasion.

And if you tell me the TCs could not visit freely some areas, I ask you what was the chance of a GC getting into a TC enclave and getting out of it alive? Zero%?

Until you come to the point to understand the reasons behind the situation in the 60s you will always damn the GCs and think it was all their fault, and still seek the partition dream your TMT uncle/or father/or big brother was fighting for.

[MicAtCyp]

Brother,

In the past I used to just keep copies of the URLs regarding information.That proved to a bad idea as many links disapear from the internet after some time.
Here are the links I thought I found that information
http://www.yenicag-net.com/kitap/ulus/dillirga.htm
However this link does not work anymore...

These links however do work and they are very informative! I suggest everyone to have a look. Anyway I checked there I did not find anything regarding the subject matter.

http://www.yenicag-net.com
http://www.yenikibris.org/kitap/ulus/

But I think everyone knew how Kucuk used the money he got from the British (about half a million pounds) in settlement of Evkafs properties in Famagusta to buy huge areas of lands at the north of Nicosia upto Gionelli. Notice at that time you could buy an acre of land for just 2 pounds!

PS. If anyone can find some links on the Internet regarding this matter please post them here.

[garbitsch]

So MicAtCyp you feel there was no need to retreat into enclaves? TCs were perfectly safe living amongst GCs, my family lived through the period and I can assure you the fear was very intense and GCs turned against TCs. We could not freely speak our language or visit certain areas of Cyprus, dont you think that ironic maybe the current situation is payback time.

That was not my point. My point was the enclave regions were formed before the need/or no need to retreat into them. Can’t you see the difference?

1-And by the way VP don't sell me your "fear" crap. I lived during those years and I know exactly which of the TCs lived in fear.Why don't you admit that either your father or your big brother or your next door uncle were actually TMT officers? Thats why they had every reason to live in fear!

For your information my father was a merchant. He was not only having commercial but also social relations even with TCs who lived in the enclaves.However those relations were never without fear.The poor people were afraid to be seen having relations with a GC . They were even afraid to do bussiness with my father when another TC was watching. Tell me why.
My uncle was the first exporter of agricultural products from Cyprus. He was a partner with a TC. They both builted a factory in Mia Milia Industrial area that unfortunately only worked for one year before the 1974 Invasion.

2-And if you tell me the TCs could not visit freely some areas, I ask you what was the chance of a GC getting into a TC enclave and getting out of it alive? Zero%?

3-Until you come to the point to understand the reasons behind the situation in the 60s you will always damn the GCs and think it was all their fault, and still seek the partition dream your TMT uncle/or father/or big brother was fighting for.

1- Please correct me. In one of your previous post you said you were seven in 1974. I might get confused by another user. I appologise in advance.
2- You are only making assumptions...

3- You do the same thing too. You put the blame on the T.Cs. You claimed majority of T.Cs were happy to live with G.Cs. Only the ones who had the fear were the TMT men and their family.

Note: please match the numbers in your arguement and the ones in my message.

[insan]

But I think everyone knew how Kucuk used the money he got from the British (about half a million pounds) in settlement of Evkafs properties in Famagusta to buy huge areas of lands at the north of Nicosia upto Gionelli. Notice at that time you could buy an acre of land for just 2 pounds!

It is true. Kuchuk told me that he did this as a measure, reaction and a counter-movement against Enosists. He told me that TC leadership were not naive and stupid that Enosists assumed.

We well know that every TC who opposed to Enosis and GC domination are bad TCs for MicAtCyp and the likes.

[Viewpoint]

MicAtCyp you assume many things, those enclaves were a safe haven for many TCs and why would you ever want to to enter a closed area where you know people fear you and would kill to protect themselves and their families, whereas you guys were enjoying running the country and reeping the benefits.
Many incorrect actions were taken by both sides i never try to say one side is more to blame than the other. But the trust element no longer exists, why should I trust you and why should you trust me? we have lived apart for to long to think we can truly commit to a solution and make it work. Isnt better to accept partition and move on, leave all the bad shit in the history books and live as good neighbours.

[erolz]

And by the way VP don't sell me your "fear" crap. I lived during those years and I know exactly which of the TCs lived in fear.Why don't you admit that either your father or your big brother or your next door uncle were actually TMT officers? Thats why they had every reason to live in fear!

I know I said I was going to stop osting for a while and generaly this is still the case but I felt I had to respond to this.

MicAtCyp this is just deeply offensive. You know my familys history. You know my uncle was murdered by GC in 64. You know he was not part of TMT or an extermist, but an ordinary assistant bank manager working with GC and well respected by all. You know that he was killed whilst continuing to go to work - against the advise (or forcing of TC not to travel to GC areas - as GC would have us believe) of the TC leaders of the time. My aunt lived in fear of GC after this event - what else would you expect. She was not a TMT member or extremist. She had every reason to live in fear. It was not just TC living in fear either.

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.ph ... &archive=1

In the words of GC Dr Andreas Demetriou

The poor man [my uncle] wanted the well-being of his family; he had a good job, he was a white collar worker for Barclays Bank.

"I remember, the murder was condemned by all the people in Famagusta at the time," Demetriou told the Sunday Mail. "And we couldn't go out and speak against it because we were truly afraid for our lives."

So you can call TC fear of GC 'crap' and state that you know that the only TC that had reason to fear GC were TMT members and extremists - but it would be you that, with respect, is talking 'crap' in this case. Not only did normal everyday TC have reason to fear GC extreemism GC as well also feared the same as evidenced by Dr Demetriou's statements above.

[-mikkie2-]

Not only did normal everyday TC have reason to fear GC extreemism GC as well also feared the same as evidenced by Dr Demetriou's statements above.

This point is lost on many TC's, that many GC's also feared GC extremists, yet we get the blanket genralisation that all the GC's were against the TC's. The trouble makers were a minority of people, not the general mass of the population. It also explains why many GC's would seem to reluctant to react to what was going on as their own lives would have been under threat by extreemist elements. Unfortunately, this inaction by the GC community as a whole is always taken by the TC's as tacid acceptance of what was going on which is very far from the truth.

What is also lost on people is the fact that the TC leadership and the TMT were actively discouraging TC's from working with GC's. The punishment for doing so was usually death. Understandably, I would suggest that quite a few TC's were under threat from both GC's and TC's as well.

I guess I will just sit back now and take all the abuse that is coming!

[erolz]

This point is lost on many TC's, that many GC's also feared GC extremists, yet we get the blanket genralisation that all the GC's were against the TC's. The trouble makers were a minority of people, not the general mass of the population.

The problem is this 'minority' of 'troublemakers' were the GC community leaders and in exclusive control of the whole state. These extermists did not operated as 'illegal bands' lible to prosceution and punishment from the state - they were the state and acted with impunity without any fear of prosceution or punishment for their actions.

It also explains why many GC's would seem to reluctant to react to what was going on as their own lives would have been under threat by extreemist elements. Unfortunately, this inaction by the GC community as a whole is always taken by the TC's as tacid acceptance of what was going on which is very far from the truth.

I hold the GC people responsible for the acts comitted by or with the approval of their leaders. If thier leaders were doing something that was against the wishes of the GC majority then that majority had a duty to replace those leaders.

What is also lost on people is the fact that the TC leadership and the TMT were actively discouraging TC's from working with GC's.

The TC leaders were advising TC not to go into GC controlled areas - because to do so was not safe. Had my uncle taken this advise, or had it been a lie that going into GC controlled areas was not safe for TC, he may well still be alive today!

The punishment for doing so was usually death.

Rubbish. It was not TC extremists that killed my uncle for ignoring their advise - it was GC extremists that did this in the name of their 'nobel cause'. To say it was ususal that a TC that ignore the TC leaderships advise re entering GC controlled areas was execution of these people by TC is just extremist propaganda at it's worst. If there are _any_ cases of TC being killed (or even believeing they would be) for such an act (entering GC comtrolled area) then these are without a shadow of doubt the exceptions and not the rule.

I guess I will just sit back now and take all the abuse that is coming!

I do not abuse people publicaly on these forums and will not start now. What I will do is ask you how I as a TC am supposed to 'trust' GC re a settlement today, when they continue to spout such propganda about the past - like no TC that was not part of TMT feared or had reason to fear GC?