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Finding a Soltuion in Cyprus - Request for information

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby denizaksulu » Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:48 pm

Piratis wrote:
unitedwestand wrote:
Piratis wrote:According to VP no Greek territory or island should have been liberated from foreign rule because Turkish minorities were formed on them during the Ottoman rule.

Nobody ever asked for the Turkish minority to be "wiped out". On the contrary it is the Turkish Cypriot minority who attacked Greek Cypriots in 1958, demanding that the Greek Cypriots should be wiped out from the north part of their country in order to artificially create some Turkish state there. This is a criminal plan which they put into action in 1974.

The only thing that Cypriots ever asked for was for foreigners to allow the Cypriot people to democratically decide the destiny of their own island. Unfortunately this was denied to us.

We seek no vengeance at all. Seeking democracy were the human rights of all are respected is called "vengeance"? We do not ask for the punishment of anybody for what happened in the past. We are willing to forgive all, as long as we are finally allowed to have democracy and human rights without foreign troops on our lands.

On the other hand the Turks want to continue the illegal occupation of our lands, and to continue violating our rights. So who is looking for vengeance viewpoint? You are!


Your history of Cyprus is so corrupt it beggars belief.


If anything I say is "currupt" then when don't you tell us what it is instead of just saying empty words and slogans. But I guess thats all you know.



Piratis, even your 'currupt' is corrupt.

What you allege as freedom fighters are known throughout the whole world as blood thirsty, murderers who enjoyed shooting british women in the back. Readers of your accounts of Cyprus history should take everything you say with a pinch of salt. I hope you are not a history teacher.
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Postby denizaksulu » Sat Apr 26, 2008 12:00 am

Piratis wrote:Here are you dates Eric:
After 1400 B.C., Mycenaean and Mycenaean-Achaean traders from the northeastern Peloponnesus began regular commercial visits to the island. Settlers from the same areas arrived in large numbers toward the end of the Trojan War (traditionally dated about 1184 B.C.). Even in modern times, a strip of the northern coast was known as the Achaean Coast in commemoration of those early settlers. The newcomers spread the use of their spoken language and introduced a script that greatly facilitated commerce. They also introduced the potter's wheel and began producing pottery that eventually was carried by traders to many mainland markets. By the end of the second millennium B.C., a distinctive culture had developed on Cyprus. The island's culture was tempered and enriched by its position as a crossroads for the commerce of three continents, but in essence it was distinctively Hellenic.


Do you disagree with that Eric? Whats your theory then? That while Cyprus was ruled by British, Ottomans, Persians, Franks etc, just like magic the people of Cyprus started to speak Greek out of the blue? :roll:

We are Greek, we are the 82% of the population and we have been here for many 1000s of years.

Compare that with Turkey: Turks are less than 80% of the people in Turkey and they have been there for just 600 years.

Cyprus is many times more Greek, than Turkey is Turkish.



Piratis, you deliberately misunderstand what ericdayi writes. Myceneans or Achaean traders coming to Cyprus plying their trade, setting up colonies and teaching/spreading Greek culture is not the same as belonging to Greece. Tell the truth for once.
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Postby denizaksulu » Sat Apr 26, 2008 12:21 am

ARMENIAN CYPRIOT wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:Piratis
Cyprus has been Greek for 1000s of years. It has a Greek culture going back 3500 years and its population is 82% Greek. Is there any territory which has 82% Turkish population for 1000s of years and it is not part of the Turkish state?


The island was never Greek or part of Greece, thats why you cannot provide dates, it has been bastardized enough times to make it some sort of mix that speak Greek and Turkish, people are now born into either the GC or TC community.
The sooner you realize that your belief which you are entitiled to gives you no more rights than me we are both indigenous to this island now.

Nobody wanted to wipe out your minority. What we wanted was simply the freedom of Cyprus as it happened to several other Greek islands and territories before. And then you attacked us again...


Uniting with Greece would have wiped us out just like the Turks in Rhodes and Crete, you agreed an independent state under agreed rules you tried to change those rules to achieve your dream of enosis, we stood in your way so we faced being wiped out but fought for survival and we will continue to do so in everyway necessary.
Cyprus was never Greek or part of Greece.

But even when we compromised our rights, and we accepted for Cyprus not to be united with the rest of Greece, you still collaborated with the British in order to give to Cyprus a fake undemocratic "independence" instead of a true one as it happens in all other countries of the world, so Turkey and UK could keep their control over our island.


Anything that does not suit your aims is not undemocratic, you complain becuase the 1960 agreements did not give a free hand to do what you wish and achieve your dream, you though we and the Brits were stupid and woudl allow you free path to riding the island of its TC communiy and turning Cyprus into another Greek island.

The Cypriots will continue to fight for democracy and human rights, and for our self-determination on our own island. All foreign troops should leave from our country.


Yes we will continue to fight for what we believe is right for our country and if that is to seek a solution which includes the removal of all troops then we wil do that you can no longer force your majority on us to achieve aims which we are against. When will you realize we will not capitulate to your demand to turn the whole of Cyprus into a GC state run by GCs you have done that to 63% of the island you cannot have anymore.

VP wasnt Cyprus ruled by Armenians and Greeks during the Byzantine Empire?? I assume you believe Cyprus has been part of Turkey so you must be using the Ottoman era so , the latter must follow.



Armenian Cypriot, the question here is whether Cyprus was ever ruled by Greece or part of Greece. Yes it was part of the Byzantine Empire as part of the old Eastern Roman Empire. There is no question about that.(I think)

Regards
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Postby repulsewarrior » Sat Apr 26, 2008 1:10 am

Manifesto for a virgin birth based on the Principals of our Constitution (that of 1960) for a Governance which is Bicommunal, and a redress for all Displaced Persons.


A letter to:

Christofias Demetris, President of the Republic of Cyprus
Mehemet Ali Talat, Cumhurbaskani (KKTC)
To all the Citizens of the island of Cyprus

I offer my humble observations in the hope that they may be a guide toward a solution which is a demonstration of our Humanity, as Cypriots.

As a basis of negociation there is a long history of resolutions, and proposals toward the Problem and its Solution which this proposal shares.

For close to half a century we have struggled to define the meaning of that basic principal in our Constitution which makes our identity bicommunal. Bizonal has been less clear to us, as to meaning, and although it is the most important issue, land, we are far from clearing this impasse.

In my Cyprus the meaning of these words are clear.
And I believe, their consideration was well chosen by Makarios and Denktash.

Bizonal means two parts; with each part made up of components.

Bicommunal means two levels of government; in our case three governing bodies.

Cyprus, the Republic of Cyprus, has had a dysfunctional government from its advent. For whatever reasons, enclaves became a part of our geography, allowing for distinctions to form where Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots would grow, and grow apart. Now the displaced are measured in hundreds of thousands and the occupation by the Turkish Army remains, with the hope it will withdraw, when there exists reforms that Cypriots make for themselves as equal with a sense that their governance shall sustain them.

In my Cyprus the line which divides it in two would remain.

In my Cyprus some of the displaced shall return as communities, and all displaced shall have the Right of Return.

In my Cyprus in voting, in any election, people are defined by their residence, not by their ethnicity.

In my Cyprus a strong Central Government, with its Executive, and an Independent Judiciary will be Sovereign in defending our identities as individuals, our Individual Rights, and the Heritance which makes the island’s culture wealthy, beyond the interests of any single community of persons.

In my Cyprus there are two National Assemblies, where citizens represent themselves as persons, to have Jurisdiction over Territories defined, each as a Zone, providing to these electors the services they need in their daily lives in a manner where, they can as a majority sustain themselves first, while recognising their grace and providing for the special needs of minoroities amongst them.

In my Cyprus, enclaves, like jewels will be scattered across its map. Famagusta will be opened, Girne will remain, Komi Kebir will thrive, and a new township will be founded by Turkish Cypriots near Paphos.

In my Cyprus there is no need for the Military, even if there are many frontiers, there will be no borders.







A Unitary State exists which is in need of reform. The Principal of Bicommunality is inherant in its Constitution, yet it must be demonstrated as a useful political tool when people share a land having a pluralistic identity between them.

I imagine a Bicameral Legislature for the Government of our State. I imagine an Upper House, its seats divided equally between Turkish Cypriot and Greek Cypriot representatives. I imagine a Lower House whose seats are filled by representatives Independent of National Parties, proportionally elected, who through their speaker choose amongst them voting members for all the Government Committees where they have seats, debating Legislation, and voting by consensus

A Leader, to win the Presidency, through his Party must gain a majority of seats in the Upper House. Thus, his/her ethnicity is of no importance having to provide candidates to fill all the seats.

The voter shall vote thricely, once from each of three slates: an Independent, a Turkish Cypriot, and a Greek Cypriot representative.

Futuristically, over 200 years, we must consider having a population of 12 million. The mono clonal tendancies of today, when isolation is removed, and when our EU membership is beyond its advent, will no longer resist the changes of a world far more associated, and I hope at peace in the Middle East, and Africa. Bicommunality will allow us to choose as persons our identity, while as individuals we will seek to work together toward our betterment as Human beings embracing the changes the future brings in our demographics as the most Socialised Country in the World..

Without our representation in National Assemblies we cannot provide to our culture another facet which enriches it, nor can its two counterparts be sustained any other way.

With a Unitary State we represent ourselves as this island’s dwellers, our expression as Human beings toward acts of betterment above any Nationality. As an expression of our Love for this island, as the Stewards for this Heritage, for the love of its trees, and of its relics, that are even older than the cultures in which we wish to sustain ourselves, (to Neolithic times), we need a State where we remain undivided. This history of Cypriots is interwoven in our own, but it is a power which I’m afraid cannot sustain itself this time. It is a single line unbroken; we can remain great cooperators, yet for the first time in thousands of years, we can be free from subjugation.

Rise up citizen, if you disagree with my proposal, choose one that is better, and more Just.

Send yours to our leaders, they need our help now.

My name is repulsewarrior, and as a citizen of the world you can find me on google.

Cyprus: three governments; One Capital, and Free.



I include this Manifesto as a person who has waited patiently for several decades for this Problem's end. You will probably note if your research is comprehensive that it is not so unusal compared to the excellent work of so many who are far more credible, and were mandated by the UN over the long years. Good luck, and I muse that you will find this Solution most suitable, because as a template it is useful in other current conflicts, and as I have demonstrated on this forum (and others), its sustainability, with a great change of demographics in the future.

Cheers!
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Postby Eric dayi » Sat Apr 26, 2008 2:02 am

Jerry wrote:
Eric dayi wrote:
Jerry wrote:Well here's a few indisputable facts for you smokejumper:-

Cyprus was the only British colony not to achieve majority rule on independence
Turkish Cypriots are 18% of the population, they occupy 37% of the island.
Turkey has/had the legal right to intervene in Cyprus, it had no right to partition the island.
Turkey has, against international law, populated the north Cyprus with mainland Turks.
According to the 1960 Constitution the Turkish Cypriot Vice President could veto important legislation.
Turkey systematically looted the deserted town of Famagusta and to this day denies its inhabitants return.
The Tukish Cypriots are heavily subsidised by Turkey, their "independent" state is not economically viable.
The ECHR has made Turkey pays hundreds of thousands £££ to Greek Cypriots as compensation.

There's loads more but try the above for starters.


You forgot to add that had Turkey not intervened in 1974 the TCs would have all been butcherd by the GCs and the Greeks who invaded Cyprus in 1963 Jerry.

You also forgott to add that all the above is only because the GCs and the Greeks wanted ENOSIS and would have murdered all the Tcs to get their wish.



PS VP There is still a significant number of Turks on Rhodes

There are no Turks in Rhodes or anywhere in Greece Jerry, try not to lie next time.


I don't see why the majority should not be able to determine their own future, rather like they did a few years earlier in Alexandretta.


The GCs and Greeks can do what the heck they like in the South Jerry, they don't have to force us to accept what we don't see as any good for our people.



yes Jerry, really. Have a look at this and tell me wher it says Turkish.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publication ... os/gr.html

Jerry, do some research if you don't know what you are talking about.

According to Greece there are no Turks in Greece, only "Muslim Greeks". Even Muslims who come from other countries are "Muslim Greeks". This has also been endorsed by the High Court of Greece and if you do a search you'll find out what I am talking about.

AND that is exactly what we TCs didn't want to end up as and fought against it.

If you or anyone else seem to believe that it is "democratic" to by law not allow people to id themselves as Turks then you all need to see a head shrink.

And you people have the cheek to laugh at others? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Last edited by Eric dayi on Sat Apr 26, 2008 2:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Eric dayi » Sat Apr 26, 2008 2:06 am

miltiades wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
Eric dayi wrote:
miltiades wrote:Shut up you stupid little plonker , you slithering emaciated foaming in the mouth little Hitler !!!!


Drink a bottle of Ouzo and go to bed you senile old git and say goodnight to your murdering terrorist idols Makarios and Grivas. Keep dreaming about ENOSIS when you sleep because thats the onlyENOSIS you Greeks and GCs are ever going to have. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Eric please calm down my friend, theres no need to respond in such a fashion, bize yakişmiyor.

I think VP will agree with me that the Erics of this world , be it G/Cs or T/Cs are THE ONES responsible for all the suffering endured by our people .


That's reach coming from a self confessed ENOSIS dreamer who probably murdered his own TC neigbours to get his wish.

You started the shite and now you are blaming everyone else but yourself, that is typical of criminals like you. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Postby boomerang » Sat Apr 26, 2008 2:10 am

rich and not reach...thought I correct you since you took it upon to yourself to teach others...you senile old fool...

Does this count as another turkey slap?...yes it does clown boy


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Postby Eric dayi » Sat Apr 26, 2008 2:21 am

humanist wrote:smokejumper ...... the way it goes is a bit like this ..... the Turkish Cyriots argue that they did not want the GC population gifting the Island to the greeks so they have now decided to gift the Island to Turkey instead and they have achieved this in the past 34 years. Whereas the GC dream of 50 years ago never came to fruition.


"gifted the island to Turkey"? "There is no more a so-called "RoC"? Have the Greeks and Greek Cypriots all emigratede to Greece?

What the hell are you on humanist? Must be some very strong shit you smoking there boy.

I think your despreation for ENOSIS and the depression you got in to failing to achieve your goal combined with whatever you are smoking has taken it's toll on you or someone has forgotten to tell me that Turkey has annexed the whole of Cyprus.


Jesus, you really godda be flying very high to come up with such crap. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Postby Piratis » Sat Apr 26, 2008 2:25 am

denizaksulu wrote:
Piratis wrote:Here are you dates Eric:
After 1400 B.C., Mycenaean and Mycenaean-Achaean traders from the northeastern Peloponnesus began regular commercial visits to the island. Settlers from the same areas arrived in large numbers toward the end of the Trojan War (traditionally dated about 1184 B.C.). Even in modern times, a strip of the northern coast was known as the Achaean Coast in commemoration of those early settlers. The newcomers spread the use of their spoken language and introduced a script that greatly facilitated commerce. They also introduced the potter's wheel and began producing pottery that eventually was carried by traders to many mainland markets. By the end of the second millennium B.C., a distinctive culture had developed on Cyprus. The island's culture was tempered and enriched by its position as a crossroads for the commerce of three continents, but in essence it was distinctively Hellenic.


Do you disagree with that Eric? Whats your theory then? That while Cyprus was ruled by British, Ottomans, Persians, Franks etc, just like magic the people of Cyprus started to speak Greek out of the blue? :roll:

We are Greek, we are the 82% of the population and we have been here for many 1000s of years.

Compare that with Turkey: Turks are less than 80% of the people in Turkey and they have been there for just 600 years.

Cyprus is many times more Greek, than Turkey is Turkish.



Piratis, you deliberately misunderstand what ericdayi writes. Myceneans or Achaean traders coming to Cyprus plying their trade, setting up colonies and teaching/spreading Greek culture is not the same as belonging to Greece. Tell the truth for once.


No mate, it means that Cyprus culture is Greek, Cypriots speak Greek, religion of Cyprus is Greek (Olympus Gods, then Christian Orthodox) Cyprus is not owned by Greece, Cyprus IS Greece.

So don't confuse those foreigners that impose their rule on Cyprus and made Cyprus parts of their empires, with what Cyprus is.

It really tells a lot about how you were brought up as Turks to believe that a territory (an island in this case) "belongs" to the one who has the power to impose its rule on it, and not to the native people of that territory.

We are Greek and we are the 82% majority of this island and we have been living on this island for 3500 years (more than most other nations have lived on their countries).

So if you claim that Cyprus is not Greek, then definitely Turkey is not Turkish, since in Turkey the Turks are less than 80% and they have a much shorter history there than we have on Cyprus.
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Postby Eric dayi » Sat Apr 26, 2008 2:40 am

Piratis wrote:
denizaksulu wrote:
Piratis wrote:Here are you dates Eric:
After 1400 B.C., Mycenaean and Mycenaean-Achaean traders from the northeastern Peloponnesus began regular commercial visits to the island. Settlers from the same areas arrived in large numbers toward the end of the Trojan War (traditionally dated about 1184 B.C.). Even in modern times, a strip of the northern coast was known as the Achaean Coast in commemoration of those early settlers. The newcomers spread the use of their spoken language and introduced a script that greatly facilitated commerce. They also introduced the potter's wheel and began producing pottery that eventually was carried by traders to many mainland markets. By the end of the second millennium B.C., a distinctive culture had developed on Cyprus. The island's culture was tempered and enriched by its position as a crossroads for the commerce of three continents, but in essence it was distinctively Hellenic.


Do you disagree with that Eric? Whats your theory then? That while Cyprus was ruled by British, Ottomans, Persians, Franks etc, just like magic the people of Cyprus started to speak Greek out of the blue? :roll:

We are Greek, we are the 82% of the population and we have been here for many 1000s of years.

Compare that with Turkey: Turks are less than 80% of the people in Turkey and they have been there for just 600 years.

Cyprus is many times more Greek, than Turkey is Turkish.



Piratis, you deliberately misunderstand what ericdayi writes. Myceneans or Achaean traders coming to Cyprus plying their trade, setting up colonies and teaching/spreading Greek culture is not the same as belonging to Greece. Tell the truth for once.


No mate, it means that Cyprus culture is Greek, Cypriots speak Greek, religion of Cyprus is Greek (Olympus Gods, then Christian Orthodox) Cyprus is not owned by Greece, Cyprus IS Greece.

So don't confuse those foreigners that impose their rule on Cyprus and made Cyprus parts of their empires, with what Cyprus is.

It really tells a lot about how you were brought up as Turks to believe that a territory (an island in this case) "belongs" to the one who has the power to impose its rule on it, and not to the native people of that territory.

We are Greek and we are the 82% majority of this island and we have been living on this island for 3500 years (more than most other nations have lived on their countries).

So if you claim that Cyprus is not Greek, then definitely Turkey is not Turkish, since in Turkey the Turks are less than 80% and they have a much shorter history there than we have on Cyprus.


Cyprus was never Greek and never will be so stop crying over your failed attempt to genocide us TCs for your ENOSIS dream.

By your own admission you were nothing but settlers and now you want to claim Cyprus as Greek?

You arrived in Cyprus and assimilated or maybe even murdered the people who were here before you and forced them to learn your language and adopt to your religion. You commited a genocide on these people just like you did in Trojan and then you attempted to genocide us TCs and now
you claim that Cyprus is Greek?

Keep on dreaming. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

It's also funny that you go against all that most of your "countrymen" in this forum are saying that you are not Greeks but "Cypriots". GR even started a thread on this subject with many GCs agreeing with him and telling those who think they are Greeks to "piss of to Greece".

Piratis, with liars like you around there are always going to be people like me to oppose you and put you in your place.

In every forum that I have participated in, Admin and Mods were there to stop people from having mud slinging contests but you really go out of your way to cause trouble and start arguments by lying and rewriting history. Well, keep it up, it can only get worse. :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :
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