Cyprus-Forum.com

[Bananiot]

Birkibrisli, all level headed Greek Cypriots I know go for option no. 2 because it is the only one that offers some hope that a solution may be at hand. The rest are either misinformed or are of the kind that go to the shooting range five times a week (at least so they say) in order to get ready for the final shoot out. You cannot really talk with such people. These people will readily pick a fight with moderate members of the other community, without ever wondering of the effect of their action. Their agenda is dangerous. They are the real culprits that are responsible for our predicament.

Our President has realised this and kicked Papadopoulos out (I built you my oven, I will knock you down, as one Cypriot proverb goes) so that he could give it one final go before it is too late. I do realise that the other side needs to tango too. I am worried here because Talat will probably have just a year to do anything about it and given the circumstances in Turkey he would be out of office come next elections in 2009, I think.

I could argue for option no. 5 two and this would have been my obvious choice but simply it is not feasible. Since it is totally out of question we should give our best shot for option 2 and together we can make it work.

P.S. Paphitis, you forgot the most important point. Let me fill it in for you.
18 ) All Turkish Cypriots are baptised and assume Greek names.
Another thing, they should all speak Greek but they will be excused to swear in Turkish. After all, there is no better language to swear at someone than the Turkish language.

[Paphitis]

Here it goes then Bafidi.

1) The withdrawal of Turkish and Greek Troops.


I don’t see this being of any trouble.

2) The re-unification of the island based on a True Federal system comprising of 2 states
OK.


3) Free movement and right of residency for all,

No problem.


4) One man one vote,Yes of course everyone gets one vote.

But this shouldn’t mean TC’s cannot block certain bills like amendments in the constitution.

5) A demilitarized island except for what is necessary for border control and law and order with a token military of 5000 men and women comprising of both GCs and TCs

No Problemo

6) TCs returning to their properties where possible,
7) GCs returning to their properties where possible,

For these two, what would where possible mean? Eg: If there isn’t a villa on their property?

8. No foreign influence from Turkey or Greece,
9) No guarantor powers for both Turkey and Greece,

We TC’s feel we need Turkish guarantees in case you try anything fishy once again. But I do believe that the Guarantee Treaty should be solidly defined in which cases Turkey can intervene and the measures that it has to take before any intervention.


10) A constitution that protects the rights of all individuals,

That’s what a constitution is basically for.


11) Public service and all bodies to comprise TC and GC input,

OK.


12) All settlers returning to Turkey with sufficient compensation, except for those that married a Cypriot or have children born on the island.


I guess most of them would stay since all of the ones with TRNC citizenship have had children born here.

13) Each component state to have their own General Assemblies.

That’s the point of having a state.

14) Both component states to be governed by a strong Federal State which unites both component states with proportional Federal representation.


This is also OK.

15) Each component state to have their own police force, municipalities, education system, health system and judiciary.


Again OK.

16) Each component state to be responsible for the collection of taxes of their residents, the funds of which should be used for each component state's public services, education system and health system.

Ok.

17) Each component state to contribute proportional funding for Defense, Customs services, border control, and Federal judiciary etc.

OK.

I also believe that the TC component state should not be more than 18-20% of the total surface area of Cyprus. This seems like a, NO way!!!! It seems we are ready to go down to 30 % .


Each component state should have their own general assemblies. A Federal government should also be based on proportional representation and the Federation should not be loose but assertive to avoid any possible collapse of the unitary state.

Loose , I don’t think so. After 44 years of being completely apart you cannot expect this. Please define how loose.

There should not be any veto rights as this would favour one community over the other. Changes to the constitution should only be initiated by majority vote of both communities in seperate referendum ballots.


Wouldn’t that mean the same thing! Wouldn’t this contradict with your principle of “one man one vote” . Then again I like it. We in the end must approve of any change in the constitution.

I am also of the opinion that bilateral relations between Cyprus and Turkey should be normalized. A Cypriot Embassy should be set up in Ankara and a Turkish embassy in Nicosia. Trade and investment should be free flowing between Cyprus and Turkey to further aid cooperation, stability and friendship. Turkey's EU membership should then be supported by Cyprus.

This will naturally follow.

Projects of good will should be fast tracked. A good example of this would be the Turkey to Cyprus water pipeline. These types of projects would further facilitate trust between the communities.


Again this would be a positive result of a soln.

Cyprus should also become a member of NATO, so that alliances can be forged between Greece, Turkey and Cyprus. I am sure that Pres X would disagree with this as would most Cypriot Leftists, but I beleive that NATO membership would be a benefit to the security on Cyprus along with it's current EU membership.

OK. No problem.


That is just of the top of my head. I beleive the above is achievable. And the added benefit would be that the whole region will be much more secure and stable.

I am sure that many of you may disagree with the above. I am more than willing to accept constructive criticism and input from other members. Please keep in mind that the above is just my opinion on what I consider to be achievable.

The Federation should not be based on a loose model as proposed in the AP as there would be no guarantee that the TCs will not dissolve the unitary state.

So far your only disagreement is on the total surface area of the TC state. Your proposed 30% is excessive and unfair considering that the TC population only comprises 18% of the total population of Cyprus.

[BirKibrisli]

Birkibrisli, all level headed Greek Cypriots I know go for option no. 2 because it is the only one that offers some hope that a solution may be at hand. The rest are either misinformed or are of the kind that go to the shooting range five times a week (at least so they say) in order to get ready for the final shoot out. You cannot really talk with such people. These people will readily pick a fight with moderate members of the other community, without ever wondering of the effect of their action. Their agenda is dangerous. They are the real culprits that are responsible for our predicament.

Our President has realised this and kicked Papadopoulos out (I built you my oven, I will knock you down, as one Cypriot proverb goes) so that he could give it one final go before it is too late. I do realise that the other side needs to tango too. I am worried here because Talat will probably have just a year to do anything about it and given the circumstances in Turkey he would be out of office come next elections in 2009, I think.

I could argue for option no. 5 two and this would have been my obvious choice but simply it is not feasible. Since it is totally out of question we should give our best shot for option 2 and together we can make it work.

P.S. Paphitis, you forgot the most important point. Let me fill it in for you.
18 ) All Turkish Cypriots are baptised and assume Greek names.
Another thing, they should all speak Greek but they will be excused to swear in Turkish. After all, there is no better language to swear at someone than the Turkish language.

You and I can make Option 5 work too,dear Bananiot...If they would just leave it to us...

[Paphitis]

Birkibrisli, all level headed Greek Cypriots I know go for option no. 2 because it is the only one that offers some hope that a solution may be at hand. The rest are either misinformed or are of the kind that go to the shooting range five times a week (at least so they say) in order to get ready for the final shoot out. You cannot really talk with such people. These people will readily pick a fight with moderate members of the other community, without ever wondering of the effect of their action. Their agenda is dangerous. They are the real culprits that are responsible for our predicament.

Our President has realised this and kicked Papadopoulos out (I built you my oven, I will knock you down, as one Cypriot proverb goes) so that he could give it one final go before it is too late. I do realise that the other side needs to tango too. I am worried here because Talat will probably have just a year to do anything about it and given the circumstances in Turkey he would be out of office come next elections in 2009, I think.

I could argue for option no. 5 two and this would have been my obvious choice but simply it is not feasible. Since it is totally out of question we should give our best shot for option 2 and together we can make it work.

P.S. Paphitis, you forgot the most important point. Let me fill it in for you.
18 ) All Turkish Cypriots are baptised and assume Greek names.
Another thing, they should all speak Greek but they will be excused to swear in Turkish. After all, there is no better language to swear at someone than the Turkish language.

May I point out that if any solution does eventuate, I am a very staunch advocate for the total freedom of the individual, and this is imperative in a democratic society. That is, all individuals should be free to maintain their own identity, language and culture, whether that be Ottoman or Hellenic. The only thing that is vital is that all citizens are ultimately loyal to Cyprus and only Cyprus. Cypriotism must be the dominant characteristic in order to forge a successful future as a united Cyprus. The loyalties to the motherlands must cease and as this could be a recipe for disaster down the track. All external influences from Greece and Turkey must also cease with no guarantor powers given to either.

Bananiot, you sarcasm is not welcome

[Nikitas]

Irony is that we might end up going to solution 5 after trying out the BBF option. Once the BBF state is in Europe and functioning as a full fledgedmember state the TCs themselves will see that there are benefits from being in a unitary state.

If you all recall there was a clause in the Annan plan that said that if one of the consituent states was unwilling or unable to implement or accept EU conditions or participation in an EU scheme, then this would free the other state to go it alone in the EU.

Given that Turkey will interfere in the affairs of the TC constituent state, many EU schemes will be unreachable by TCs residing in the TC side, whereas they would be open if they move their domicile to the south.

[Bananiot]

Wrong, I think you and I do not even need a ... constitution. We can only have fate in the human race Birkibrisli, no other way around this. It has happened elsewhere (Germany-France, Sweden-Norway etc, etc) why shouldn't it happen to Cyprus?

[Eric dayi]

There is one thing that I find hard to understand. A person may prefer option 5. but how do they see this becoming possible. It's like a small child constantly nagging that he wants to be an astronaut. So instead of talking about the things you would prefer what do you think is possible?

What is apparent form most of the posts of GC's is that they see the EU as the real power behind them and that any gains that they make will be the fruits of Turkey's EU aspiration. THe funny thing is that most of the people who think this way, don't think Turkey has the slightest chance of ever joining the block. Do people think Turkey is that stupid? My opinion is that Turkey needs to go through major changes before being able to enter but as far as I see it the EU is trying to use Turkey and doesn't really see them as an equal partner.



A question for Birkibrisli and Miltiades

If option 5. is an option that is impossible for a great majority of TC's . What do you think is the most likely possible option that could be accptable in general ( for both sides of the greenline ) .

A question for Miltiades

Funny thing is, everytime I read your posts I have this mental voice of a nagging child. I do not know why this is the case.

I have posted what I think is possible above. So have a read and tell me what you think little child. It is important to gauge the opinions and sentiments of adolescents.

How many Kifeas', Miltiades', GR's and DT's who either want total GC rule or "one man one vote" crap have you managed to get to agree with what you suggest above so far little man?

What about your communist "government", have they agreed?

Go convince them and come back and tell us that it is "possible".

I am not sure. Maybe the next time they are on the forum they can make comment on the above plan themselves. That way we get it straight from the horses mouth, so to speak.

How about your self? What is your opinion on the above plan? As I said earlier, it is important to gauge the opinions and sentiments of adolescents. Give me your opinion, and then please admit your self to a psychiatric ward for help. It pains me to see a child that is mentally disturbed. Maybe we should start a charity fund raiser through this forum where members can contribute money to you mental rehabilitation costs.

Here we have it, the idiot of the forum has made a speech.

You dumb ass, you know very well that the great majority of GCs and Greeks will never agree to anything you suggested above but you are still stupid and childish enough to post such crap.

I asked you a simple question that even a 3 year old would be able to answer but not you, you are not 3 years old yet.

"I am not sure" says the little man...

[Bananiot]

Paphitis, you are right and I apologise for being sarcastic. However, your suggestions will never be accepted even by the most moderate Turkish Cypriot so why bother? Then, you call for all the settlers to be removed and umit objects to this (rightly in my view) but you reply to him that he has agreed on everything bar the % allocated to Turkish Cypriots!

[miltiades]

""""5. A single, united, democratic, one-man one-vote Republic ""
ISNT THIS WHAT NATIONS THROUGHOUT HISTORY HAVE ASPIRED TOO FOR THEIR NATIONS ???
Some idiot on this forum actually believes that one man one vote is Crap !!!! This first class idiot does not realise that what keeps anarchy away from all civilized nations is this fundamental democratic principle that ALL citizens are equal and that ALL citizens have an irrefutable right to ONE MAN VOTE .

[repulsewarrior]

...please read my proposal...;