Cyprus-Forum.com

[miltiades]

My choice was No 5....But I know that will never happen...So,I would like to echo Bananiot's question...How are we going to stop the worse scenario from happening??? Oh,for me the worse scenario is the Status Quo...Because if it continues withing 25 years the population of the trnc will be 1 Million settlers (give or take 30,000 real TCs)...No one has put one feasible way of how we are going to stop this from happening...make no mistake about it...it is happening as we speak....

Welcome back Bir . I knew you went for option 5.
The demographics of Cyprus will change dramatically over the next 20 or so years , mostly , if not entirely , as a result of Cyprus's entry into the EU. Turkey will in the near future join the EU . Turkish immigrants will head towards Cyprus and it will not be in the "TRNC" THEY WILL BE HEADING TOWARDS , but in the ROC. That is of course if the worst scenario should take place and the present status quo remains.
Even the AP , overwhelmingly rejected by the majority of G/Cs , called for one Cyprus voice in International affairs , sporting and celebratory events etc.
I reiterate my firm belief that the elements working against a united Cyprus are driven by their unfounded prejudices and preconceived spurious notions about the Cypriot people.

[BirKibrisli]

My choice was No 5....But I know that will never happen...So,I would like to echo Bananiot's question...How are we going to stop the worse scenario from happening??? Oh,for me the worse scenario is the Status Quo...Because if it continues withing 25 years the population of the trnc will be 1 Million settlers (give or take 30,000 real TCs)...No one has put one feasible way of how we are going to stop this from happening...make no mistake about it...it is happening as we speak....

Welcome back Bir . I knew you went for option 5.
The demographics of Cyprus will change dramatically over the next 20 or so years , mostly , if not entirely , as a result of Cyprus's entry into the EU. Turkey will in the near future join the EU . Turkish immigrants will head towards Cyprus and it will not be in the "TRNC" THEY WILL BE HEADING TOWARDS , but in the ROC. That is of course if the worst scenario should take place and the present status quo remains.
Even the AP , overwhelmingly rejected by the majority of G/Cs , called for one Cyprus voice in International affairs , sporting and celebratory events etc.
I reiterate my firm belief that the elements working against a united Cyprus are driven by their unfounded prejudices and preconceived spurious notions about the Cypriot people.

Thank you,dear miltiades...it is good to be back...
It does worry me that you and most of the others are putting all your eggs in the EU basket...I just can't see Turkey ever joining. I do hope I am proved wrong.Cypriots deserve to be the masters of their own country and fate...If they could just realise that themselves...

[Paphitis]

My choice was No 5....But I know that will never happen...So,I would like to echo Bananiot's question...How are we going to stop the worse scenario from happening??? Oh,for me the worse scenario is the Status Quo...Because if it continues withing 25 years the population of the trnc will be 1 Million settlers (give or take 30,000 real TCs)...No one has put one feasible way of how we are going to stop this from happening...make no mistake about it...it is happening as we speak....

As stated earlier, I also voted for No 5 as I beleive this to be the most ideal and fair scenario for all concerned. So fundamentally, I beleive in 1 state with proportional representation. Unfortunately, I do not beleive that this outcome is possible under the present circumstances.

Therefore a compromise is required to achieve the best possible solution for the island.

My idea of an achievable solution is as follows:

1) The withdrawal of Turkish and Greek Troops.
2) The re-unification of the island based on a True Federal system comprising of 2 states,
3) Free movement and right of residency for all,
4) One man one vote,
5) A demilitarised island except for what is necessary for border control and law and order with a token miltary of 5000 men and women comprising of both GCs and TCs
6) TCs returning to their properties where possible,
7) GCs returning to their properties where possible,
8. No foreign influence from Turkey or Greece,
9) No guarantor powers for both Turkey and Greece,
10) A constitution that protects the rights of all individuals,
11) Public service and all bodies to comprise TC and GC input,
12) All settlers returning to Turkey with sufficient compensation, except for those that married a Cypriot or have children born on the island.
13) Each component state to have their own General Assemblies.
14) Both component states to be governed by a strong Federal State which unites both component states with proportional Federal representation.
15) Each component state to have their own police force, municipalities, education system, health system and judiciary.
16) Each component state to be responsible for the collection of taxes of their residents, the funds of which should be used for each component state's public services, education system and health system.
17) Each component state to contribute proportional funding for Defence, Customs services, border control, and Federal judiciary etc.

I also beleive that the TC component state should not be more than 18-20% of the total surface area of Cyprus.

Each component state should have their own general assemblies. A Federal government should also be based on proportional representation and the Federation should not be loose but assertive to avoid any possible collapse of the unitary state.

There should not be any veto rights as this would favour one community over the other. Changes to the constitution should only be initiated by majority vote of both communities in seperate referendum ballots.

I am also of the opinion that bilateral relations between Cyprus and Turkey should be normalized. A Cypriot Embassy should be set up in Ankara and a Turkish embassy in Nicosia. Trade and investment should be free flowing between Cyprus and Turkey to further aid cooperation, stability and friendship. Turkey's EU membership should then be supported by Cyprus.

Projects of good will should be fast tracked. A good example of this would be the Turkey to Cyprus water pipeline. These types of projects would further facilitate trust between the communities.

Cyprus should also become a member of NATO, so that alliances can be forged between Greece, Turkey and Cyprus. I am sure that Pres X would disagree with this as would most Cypriot Leftists, but I beleive that NATO membership would be a benefit to the security on Cyprus along with it's current EU membership.

That is just of the top of my head. I beleive the above is achievable. And the added benefit would be that the whole region will be much more secure and stable.

I am sure that many of you may disagree with the above. I am more than willing to accept constructive criticism and input from other members. Please keep in mind that the above is just my opinion on what I consider to be achievable.

[michalis5354]

personally i dont have a problem on the Anan plan framework negotiated to make it acceptable to GCs without altering the philosophy. I dont see any future settlement differ in principle on that framework. All the UN plans should be on the table for both sides.

The way I interpret the A Plan is two administrative regios both accountable to a Central government. They reflect the reality that both GCs and TCs live side by side but under a common roof - The united republic of Cyprus. if both GCs and TCs want to live sepaartely than mixed I dont see the reason why NOT.

Both the UN and EU have endorsed the Anan plan. I dont seee why our side should reject the whole philosophy of that plan and aiming for the unachievable .-

[umit07]

There is one thing that I find hard to understand. A person may prefer option 5. but how do they see this becoming possible. It's like a small child constantly nagging that he wants to be an astronaut. So instead of talking about the things you would prefer what do you think is possible?

What is apparent form most of the posts of GC's is that they see the EU as the real power behind them and that any gains that they make will be the fruits of Turkey's EU aspiration. THe funny thing is that most of the people who think this way, don't think Turkey has the slightest chance of ever joining the block. Do people think Turkey is that stupid? My opinion is that Turkey needs to go through major changes before being able to enter but as far as I see it the EU is trying to use Turkey and doesn't really see them as an equal partner.



A question for Birkibrisli and Miltiades

If option 5. is an option that is impossible for a great majority of TC's . What do you think is the most likely possible option that could be accptable in general ( for both sides of the greenline ) .

[Paphitis]

There is one thing that I find hard to understand. A person may prefer option 5. but how do they see this becoming possible. It's like a small child constantly nagging that he wants to be an astronaut. So instead of talking about the things you would prefer what do you think is possible?

What is apparent form most of the posts of GC's is that they see the EU as the real power behind them and that any gains that they make will be the fruits of Turkey's EU aspiration. THe funny thing is that most of the people who think this way, don't think Turkey has the slightest chance of ever joining the block. Do people think Turkey is that stupid? My opinion is that Turkey needs to go through major changes before being able to enter but as far as I see it the EU is trying to use Turkey and doesn't really see them as an equal partner.



A question for Birkibrisli and Miltiades

If option 5. is an option that is impossible for a great majority of TC's . What do you think is the most likely possible option that could be accptable in general ( for both sides of the greenline ) .

A question for Miltiades

Funny thing is, everytime I read your posts I have this mental voice of a nagging child. I do not know why this is the case.

I have posted what I think is possible above. So have a read and tell me what you think little child. It is important to gauge the opinions and sentiments of adolescents.

[Eric dayi]

There is one thing that I find hard to understand. A person may prefer option 5. but how do they see this becoming possible. It's like a small child constantly nagging that he wants to be an astronaut. So instead of talking about the things you would prefer what do you think is possible?

What is apparent form most of the posts of GC's is that they see the EU as the real power behind them and that any gains that they make will be the fruits of Turkey's EU aspiration. THe funny thing is that most of the people who think this way, don't think Turkey has the slightest chance of ever joining the block. Do people think Turkey is that stupid? My opinion is that Turkey needs to go through major changes before being able to enter but as far as I see it the EU is trying to use Turkey and doesn't really see them as an equal partner.



A question for Birkibrisli and Miltiades

If option 5. is an option that is impossible for a great majority of TC's . What do you think is the most likely possible option that could be accptable in general ( for both sides of the greenline ) .

A question for Miltiades

Funny thing is, everytime I read your posts I have this mental voice of a nagging child. I do not know why this is the case.

I have posted what I think is possible above. So have a read and tell me what you think little child. It is important to gauge the opinions and sentiments of adolescents.

How many Kifeas', Miltiades', GR's and DT's who either want total GC rule or "one man one vote" crap have you managed to get to agree with what you suggest above so far little man?

What about your communist "government", have they agreed?

Go convince them and come back and tell us that it is "possible".

[Paphitis]

There is one thing that I find hard to understand. A person may prefer option 5. but how do they see this becoming possible. It's like a small child constantly nagging that he wants to be an astronaut. So instead of talking about the things you would prefer what do you think is possible?

What is apparent form most of the posts of GC's is that they see the EU as the real power behind them and that any gains that they make will be the fruits of Turkey's EU aspiration. THe funny thing is that most of the people who think this way, don't think Turkey has the slightest chance of ever joining the block. Do people think Turkey is that stupid? My opinion is that Turkey needs to go through major changes before being able to enter but as far as I see it the EU is trying to use Turkey and doesn't really see them as an equal partner.



A question for Birkibrisli and Miltiades

If option 5. is an option that is impossible for a great majority of TC's . What do you think is the most likely possible option that could be accptable in general ( for both sides of the greenline ) .

A question for Miltiades

Funny thing is, everytime I read your posts I have this mental voice of a nagging child. I do not know why this is the case.

I have posted what I think is possible above. So have a read and tell me what you think little child. It is important to gauge the opinions and sentiments of adolescents.

How many Kifeas', Miltiades', GR's and DT's who either want total GC rule or "one man one vote" crap have you managed to get to agree with what you suggest above so far little man?

What about your communist "government", have they agreed?

Go convince them and come back and tell us that it is "possible".

I am not sure. Maybe the next time they are on the forum they can make comment on the above plan themselves. That way we get it straight from the horses mouth, so to speak.

How about your self? What is your opinion on the above plan? As I said earlier, it is important to gauge the opinions and sentiments of adolescents. Give me your opinion, and then please admit your self to a psychiatric ward for help. It pains me to see a child that is mentally disturbed. Maybe we should start a charity fund raiser through this forum where members can contribute money to you mental rehabilitation costs.

[umit07]

Here it goes then Bafidi.

1) The withdrawal of Turkish and Greek Troops.


I don’t see this being of any trouble.

2) The re-unification of the island based on a True Federal system comprising of 2 states
OK.


3) Free movement and right of residency for all,

No problem.


4) One man one vote,Yes of course everyone gets one vote.

But this shouldn’t mean TC’s cannot block certain bills like amendments in the constitution.

5) A demilitarized island except for what is necessary for border control and law and order with a token military of 5000 men and women comprising of both GCs and TCs

No Problemo

6) TCs returning to their properties where possible,
7) GCs returning to their properties where possible,

For these two, what would where possible mean? Eg: If there isn’t a villa on their property?

8. No foreign influence from Turkey or Greece,
9) No guarantor powers for both Turkey and Greece,

We TC’s feel we need Turkish guarantees in case you try anything fishy once again. But I do believe that the Guarantee Treaty should be solidly defined in which cases Turkey can intervene and the measures that it has to take before any intervention.


10) A constitution that protects the rights of all individuals,

That’s what a constitution is basically for.


11) Public service and all bodies to comprise TC and GC input,

OK.


12) All settlers returning to Turkey with sufficient compensation, except for those that married a Cypriot or have children born on the island.


I guess most of them would stay since all of the ones with TRNC citizenship have had children born here.

13) Each component state to have their own General Assemblies.

That’s the point of having a state.

14) Both component states to be governed by a strong Federal State which unites both component states with proportional Federal representation.


This is also OK.

15) Each component state to have their own police force, municipalities, education system, health system and judiciary.


Again OK.

16) Each component state to be responsible for the collection of taxes of their residents, the funds of which should be used for each component state's public services, education system and health system.

Ok.

17) Each component state to contribute proportional funding for Defense, Customs services, border control, and Federal judiciary etc.

OK.

I also believe that the TC component state should not be more than 18-20% of the total surface area of Cyprus. This seems like a, NO way!!!! It seems we are ready to go down to 30 % .


Each component state should have their own general assemblies. A Federal government should also be based on proportional representation and the Federation should not be loose but assertive to avoid any possible collapse of the unitary state.

Loose , I don’t think so. After 44 years of being completely apart you cannot expect this. Please define how loose.

There should not be any veto rights as this would favour one community over the other. Changes to the constitution should only be initiated by majority vote of both communities in seperate referendum ballots.


Wouldn’t that mean the same thing! Wouldn’t this contradict with your principle of “one man one vote” . Then again I like it. We in the end must approve of any change in the constitution.

I am also of the opinion that bilateral relations between Cyprus and Turkey should be normalized. A Cypriot Embassy should be set up in Ankara and a Turkish embassy in Nicosia. Trade and investment should be free flowing between Cyprus and Turkey to further aid cooperation, stability and friendship. Turkey's EU membership should then be supported by Cyprus.

This will naturally follow.

Projects of good will should be fast tracked. A good example of this would be the Turkey to Cyprus water pipeline. These types of projects would further facilitate trust between the communities.


Again this would be a positive result of a soln.

Cyprus should also become a member of NATO, so that alliances can be forged between Greece, Turkey and Cyprus. I am sure that Pres X would disagree with this as would most Cypriot Leftists, but I beleive that NATO membership would be a benefit to the security on Cyprus along with it's current EU membership.

OK. No problem.


That is just of the top of my head. I beleive the above is achievable. And the added benefit would be that the whole region will be much more secure and stable.

I am sure that many of you may disagree with the above. I am more than willing to accept constructive criticism and input from other members. Please keep in mind that the above is just my opinion on what I consider to be achievable.

[BirKibrisli]

There is one thing that I find hard to understand. A person may prefer option 5. but how do they see this becoming possible. It's like a small child constantly nagging that he wants to be an astronaut. So instead of talking about the things you would prefer what do you think is possible?

What is apparent form most of the posts of GC's is that they see the EU as the real power behind them and that any gains that they make will be the fruits of Turkey's EU aspiration. THe funny thing is that most of the people who think this way, don't think Turkey has the slightest chance of ever joining the block. Do people think Turkey is that stupid? My opinion is that Turkey needs to go through major changes before being able to enter but as far as I see it the EU is trying to use Turkey and doesn't really see them as an equal partner.



A question for Birkibrisli and Miltiades

If option 5. is an option that is impossible for a great majority of TC's . What do you think is the most likely possible option that could be accptable in general ( for both sides of the greenline ) .

Umit,

Given both sides red lines I truly cannot see any agreed solution at the moment. Unlike other people, I cannot see the GCs ever accepting a solution which will set in concrete de facto partition of the island,which essentially what a Federation will be...If we were mature enough to make a strong central federation work,we would have it by now...At best,a modified London and Zurich type agreement might be workable,but again,if we were mature enough to make that work...yani anlayacagin Umit gardash,umitsiz vakayiz...(We are hopeless case Umit,I said ,Umit meaning Hope in Turkish) sorry!!!