Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

You can see that TCs are the losers just by looking at their standards of living. Turkey is pumping money in the pseudo state and all kind of illegal activities are going on in an effort to keep up, but still they are far far behind.

Similarly Turkey continues to be a 3rd world country. If they don't change mentality soon, then they will be kicked out of their EU accession process and lose the chance to have something better simply because they choose to continue to act criminally and violate the rights of others, instead of finally becoming more civilized and showing some respect to other nations and their own minorities.

the standard of living may be lower than the south but atleast the are self ruled

Being ruled by the Turkish generals is not self-rule.

The influence TCs could have in Cyprus, EU and internationally with their proportional power within a democratic united Cyprus would be way more than the nothing they have now because they choose to live in an illegally created army ruled military base of Turkey with no international recognition.

[Bananiot]

Must say, I enjoyed reading (again) your three options, Piratis. Of course it goes without saying that you have concealed vital statistics from all three options you referred to in order to make the Procrustean bed suit your understanding of the situation. Let us see:

Option 1, disguised partition ( Annan plan):

- Give to the Turks officially 1/3rd of Cyprus
- Give to the Turks control of the whole Cyprus.
- 10s of thousands of settlers staying in Cyprus, multiplying and spreading on the whole island.
- Greek Cypriots loose their international voice
- Turkey is off the hook, not having to pay a single cent.
- Some land is returned, some 10s of thousands of refugees returned to it.
- Prospects for the future: Diminished possibility of taking any more of our land back since we signed it away. Dysfunctional undemocratic governing that can lead to conflicts and probably more bloodshed.

Every single point made has been distorted. But, what is frightening, is that at the back of the mind of people like Piratis, we always find an option open, to claim back what we consider to be proper, when the conditions are ripe. The last point speaks for itself. It is frightening for us because it was exactly this mentality that has brought the disaster to Cyprus. In 1960 we kept our options open (despite our signature) and we lost almost half of our island. The next time there will be nothing left. That is why we should be frightened by people who think in this way.

option 2, official partition:
- Turks officially keep 1/3rd of Cyprus, but probably less than option 1
- Turkey has no control over the whole Cyprus
- Settlers stay in Cyprus, but only in the north part
- Greek Cypriots retain their international voice
- Some land is returned, probably more than option 1
- Turkey is off the hook, not having to pay a single cent.
- Some land is returned, some 10s of refugees return, probably more than option 1
- Prospects for the future: Diminished possibility of taking any more of our land back since we signed it away. Functional democratic governing that can lead to more progress.

Again, full of distortions and lack of political insight. Partition, whether agreed or not, encompasses massive threats to Cyprus. We have been through this many times. No need to repeat. It is worth noting that Papadopoulos was a supporter of this option but he would not dare say it openly so he would rather push things towards partition and make Turkey look like the perpetrator. He would then claim that partition was imposed on us but secretly he would be rubbing his hands with joy. After all, this is a man that in the past supported double union.

option 3, insisting on a fair solution
- turkey keeps 1/3rd of our country illegally and has consequences as a result.
- Turkey has no control over the whole Cyprus
- Settlers stay in Cyprus, but only in the north part
- Greek Cypriots retain their international voice
- No land is currently returned
- Turkey maintains its responsibility for her illegalities and she is obligated to pay compensations to our refugees.
- Prospects for the future: We keep the right over all of our lands, and since we would not sign them away we can take them back under a difference balance of power. Meanwhile we keep a democratic and functional system, a good economy and we progress.

This is the so called "Dountas doctrine" because it was first proposed by the late Michalis Dountas, the Ambassador of Greece to Nicosia, after the tragic events of 1974. This option misses one crucial point. Namely, things cannot stay as they are indefinitely. It is an absolute fallacy to believe that the world will stand still while more pressing problems wait to be tackled. This has already started happening with pseudo members of parliament enjoying high profile visits to Brussels and European deputies coming to the north and paying illegal visits to the pseudo state. The pseudo president is invited to important European capitals and yet, we maintain that the situation can stay as it has been over the last 34 years.

Lucky for Cyprus, the minority opinion expressed by Piratis, is not shared by the vast majority of the Greek Cypriots. Piratis is renowned for thinking that the majority always holds the absolute truth and thus I take great pleasure in paying him back with his own medicine. During the recent elections the school of thought represented by Papadopoulos and his followers sustained a grave blow. About 67% of the electorate condemned the central dogma of Papadopoulos's policy, that is, the "Dounta doctrine" and gave a new mandate to President Christofias to negotiate a solution based on BBF. Piratis should have more respect to the majority and not try to undermine it. Such undermining is close to treason. The majority of the Cypriot people has spoken. The verdict is BBF. Piratis has no right to turn against the democratically expressed will of the people.

[Nikitas]

"18% TC biased vote vs 82% GC biased vote who do you think will win?" asks VP

The 18 er cent would be needed to gain the majority between the various parties that make up the 82 per cent. You, apparently think VP, that the 82 per cent always functions as an ethnic block. This is your mistake. If you had this system in place in the last elections Christofias would have won in round one, assuming the majority of TCs were to vote for him or against Papadopoulos.

[Oracle]

By the same logic Nikitas .... you are assuming the 18% will be voting as one "block" to sway the outcome ..... I know this is more likely to be true, but it is not a guarantee.

BTW .... Bananiot has failed to find any holes in Piratis' summary options.

[Viewpoint]

"18% TC biased vote vs 82% GC biased vote who do you think will win?" asks VP

The 18 er cent would be needed to gain the majority between the various parties that make up the 82 per cent. You, apparently think VP, that the 82 per cent always functions as an ethnic block. This is your mistake. If you had this system in place in the last elections Christofias would have won in round one, assuming the majority of TCs were to vote for him or against Papadopoulos.

Answer this, can the GCs block vote? is it possible?

[Bananiot]

Holes? They are like a damned sieve plate. Just think: we signed two agreements for BBF in 1977 and 1979. One bears the signature of Makarios and the other of Kyprianou. Since then we have been telling the world that this is the solution we crave for. Can you just imagine what will happen if we now tell them that we have changed our mind and we now want a Greek Cyprus in which the Turkish Cypriots will be a minority?

[Viewpoint]

You can see that TCs are the losers just by looking at their standards of living. Turkey is pumping money in the pseudo state and all kind of illegal activities are going on in an effort to keep up, but still they are far far behind.

Similarly Turkey continues to be a 3rd world country. If they don't change mentality soon, then they will be kicked out of their EU accession process and lose the chance to have something better simply because they choose to continue to act criminally and violate the rights of others, instead of finally becoming more civilized and showing some respect to other nations and their own minorities.

the standard of living may be lower than the south but atleast the are self ruled

Being ruled by the Turkish generals is not self-rule.

The influence TCs could have in Cyprus, EU and internationally with their proportional power within a democratic united Cyprus would be way more than the nothing they have now because they choose to live in an illegally created army ruled military base of Turkey with no international recognition.

So? we choose this arrangement with all its faults than being a minority at the mercy of the GC majority, when will you get this into your brain that TCs prefer what we have today to what you are offering, you should be asking yourselves why we prefer Turkey to GCs?? and why we do not want your promised land unless there are safeguards that will allow us the right to say no on sensative issues.

Piratis your leaders are currently talking BBF political equality how does that fit in with your we are the majority we want all of Cyprus you have to be a minority in a GC state run by GCs ideology??? Are you a minority seeing that Christofiyas got voted in.

[michalis5354]

Makarios was also waiting the balance of power to change undermining the Zurich Agreements!

[Oracle]

Makarios was also waiting the balance of power to change undermining the Zurich Agreements!

Really? ... I thought the TCs' gripe was that he chose to change the Agreement.

[Bananiot]

What is wrong with waiting for the balance of power to change oracle? I thought you were all for it, in the same boat as Piratis.

Viewpoint, our leaders are talking BBF and political equality and yes, the mandate of the Greek Cypriots to Christofias was to make a last ditch effort for BBF because we all realised where the Papadopoulos policy was getting us.