Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

Oracle said:

"I think it is Democracy and Freedom that the TCs fear and not just the GCs"

Funny thing is Oracle that under a one man one vote system the TCs with 18 per cent of the vote would be the real powermakers, and have much more substantial say in all things than under any other setup. The only thing missing in such a fully democratic system is a role for Turkey, and that has been the key to this puzzle all along.

18% TC biased vote vs 82% GC biased vote who do you think will win?

[Piratis]

Piratis, is it difficult to understand that in the real world there are no solutions but options? Those that have not realised this simple fact are now extinct.

Option 1, disguised partition ( Annan plan):
- Give to the Turks officially 1/3rd of Cyprus
- Give to the Turks control of the whole Cyprus.
- 10s of thousands of settlers staying in Cyprus, multiplying and spreading on the whole island.
- Greek Cypriots loose their international voice
- Turkey is off the hook, not having to pay a single cent.
- Some land is returned, some 10s of thousands of refugees returned to it.
- Prospects for the future: Diminished possibility of taking any more of our land back since we signed it away. Dysfunctional undemocratic governing that can lead to conflicts and probably more bloodshed.


option 2, official partition:
- Turks officially keep 1/3rd of Cyprus, but probably less than option 1
- Turkey has no control over the whole Cyprus
- Settlers stay in Cyprus, but only in the north part
- Greek Cypriots retain their international voice
- Some land is returned, probably more than option 1
- Turkey is off the hook, not having to pay a single cent.
- Some land is returned, some 10s of refugees return, probably more than option 1
- Prospects for the future: Diminished possibility of taking any more of our land back since we signed it away. Functional democratic governing that can lead to more progress.

option 3, insisting on a fair solution
- turkey keeps 1/3rd of our country illegally and has consequences as a result.
- Turkey has no control over the whole Cyprus
- Settlers stay in Cyprus, but only in the north part
- Greek Cypriots retain their international voice
- No land is currently returned
- Turkey maintains its responsibility for her illegalities and she is obligated to pay compensations to our refugees.
- Prospects for the future: We keep the right over all of our lands, and since we would not sign them away we can take them back under a difference balance of power. Meanwhile we keep a democratic and functional system, a good economy and we progress.


So, there are the current options Bananiot. Non of them is good, but obviously some are better than other. Also option 3 allows the possibility for other better options in the future, while the other 2 options limit such possibility.

The worst option is option 1. If you think that the balance of power can change in our favor in the future then you go with option 3. If you think that the balance of power is impossible to change to our favor then you go with option 2. But only an idiot would go for option 1.

[bill cobbett]

me thinks somoene is fudgin the numbers

It's the "settlers" mate.

[Oracle]

Piratis, is it difficult to understand that in the real world there are no solutions but options? Those that have not realised this simple fact are now extinct.

Option 1, disguised partition ( Annan plan):
- Give to the Turks officially 1/3rd of Cyprus
- Give to the Turks control of the whole Cyprus.
- 10s of thousands of settlers staying in Cyprus, multiplying and spreading on the whole island.
- Greek Cypriots loose their international voice
- Turkey is off the hook, not having to pay a single cent.
- Some land is returned, some 10s of thousands of refugees returned to it.
- Prospects for the future: Diminished possibility of taking any more of our land back since we signed it away. Dysfunctional undemocratic governing that can lead to conflicts and probably more bloodshed.


option 2, official partition:
- Turks officially keep 1/3rd of Cyprus, but probably less than option 1
- Turkey has no control over the whole Cyprus
- Settlers stay in Cyprus, but only in the north part
- Greek Cypriots retain their international voice
- Some land is returned, probably more than option 1
- Turkey is off the hook, not having to pay a single cent.
- Some land is returned, some 10s of refugees return, probably more than option 1
- Prospects for the future: Diminished possibility of taking any more of our land back since we signed it away. Functional democratic governing that can lead to more progress.

option 3, insisting on a fair solution
- turkey keeps 1/3rd of our country illegally and has consequences as a result.
- Turkey has no control over the whole Cyprus
- Settlers stay in Cyprus, but only in the north part
- Greek Cypriots retain their international voice
- No land is currently returned
- Turkey maintains its responsibility for her illegalities and she is obligated to pay compensations to our refugees.
- Prospects for the future: We keep the right over all of our lands, and since we would not sign them away we can take them back under a difference balance of power. Meanwhile we keep a democratic and functional system, a good economy and we progress.


So, there are the current options Bananiot. Non of them is good, but obviously some are better than other. Also option 3 allows the possibility for other better options in the future, while the other 2 options limit such possibility.

The worst option is option 1. If you think that the balance of power can change in our favor in the future then you go with option 3. If you think that the balance of power is impossible to change to our favor then you go with option 2. But only an idiot would go for option 1.

Thanks Piratis ... this really clarifies matters .... and deserves wider dissemination.

[boomerang]

I think people like Boomerang and Piratis are the last people to give us a lecture on democracy. Boomerang uses foul language at anyone that has a different opinion to his while Piratis cries "treason" every time someone proposes something he disagrees with. If this is their idea of democracy then we should all be weary of such people.

Really Bananiot?...you answered to a lot more obsenities directed at you in the past...so whats stopped you now?...running on empty perhaps?

In anycase you seemed to not want to answer this one while trying to hide with damn excuses...here it is again Bananiot...have a go and see where we go from here...or have you by any chance run out of cheap rhetotic...

And don't get me started on democratic rights...You are the one at every turn of the wheel mouths off when the majority of the people clearly exercised their democratic right...I call your modus of operandi, a dictatorship...Stop moaning and groaning like a bitch and accept peoples democratic right...And then you have the balls to say you are a democrat...You are a joke Bananniot...When confronted with home truths you try and wiggle with cheap rhetoric...

Well, it is a thorny issue four our side. Do we wait for the balance of power to change (as Nikitas suggested) and kick Turkey out of Cyprus or do we go for a compromise solution in order to avoid the worst. You know what my position is but I am no nationalist. Internationalism has always been my cup of tea, as you english would say.

Two things Bananiot...

1...what exactly is the worst?...continous blackmail from "turkey=fascist state" with illegal colonization?...

2...compromise...where do you draw the line?...whats to say you compromise today and having to compromise tomorrow, coz you are willing to compromise?

I see you ignore the post, learn from others and move forward...my solution of embrassing democracy today while respecting human rights goes hand in hand with what the fascist state is trying to achieve via her EU aspirations...Why join a club if you aren't willing to change?

It's all up to the fascist state to come to terms with her EU aspirations...or you gonna sit there and tell me one rule for all EU members and a different one for the fascist state?

Sorry to say this to you Bananniot, you have become a dinosaur of the past locked in a time warp...

[repulsewarrior]

Oracle said:

"I think it is Democracy and Freedom that the TCs fear and not just the GCs"

Funny thing is Oracle that under a one man one vote system the TCs with 18 per cent of the vote would be the real powermakers, and have much more substantial say in all things than under any other setup. The only thing missing in such a fully democratic system is a role for Turkey, and that has been the key to this puzzle all along.

this is true...

and if we were to live bi communally, "Greeks" would play the same role in a National Assembly dominated by "Turks"; which is why three governments allows a State to be able to strongly represent its citizens as this island's dwellers, while as the island dwellers in their daily lives live, they have choices which reflect their identity as persons.

There are other options open, it is time for a Solution which may be completely different, but intuitvely much more futuristic.

...and i think it is a disgrace to ignore how humbly lucky we are to live on this island with its enormous Heritance, to tear it in two for it's wealth.

[Viewpoint]

Oracle said:

"I think it is Democracy and Freedom that the TCs fear and not just the GCs"

Funny thing is Oracle that under a one man one vote system the TCs with 18 per cent of the vote would be the real powermakers, and have much more substantial say in all things than under any other setup. The only thing missing in such a fully democratic system is a role for Turkey, and that has been the key to this puzzle all along.

this is true...

and if we were to live bi communally, "Greeks" would play the same role in a National Assembly dominated by "Turks"; which is why three governments allows a State to be able to strongly represent its citizens as this island's dwellers, while as the island dwellers in their daily lives live, they have choices which reflect their identity as persons.

There are other options open, it is time for a Solution which may be completely different, but intuitvely much more futuristic.

...and i think it is a disgrace to ignore how humbly lucky we are to live on this island with its enormous Heritance, to tear it in two for it's wealth.

You cannot force a union repulse, it is bound to break down. When you consider that GCs do not want to live in a TC administered state then why do they want to force us to live in a GC administered state???

[repulsewarrior]

Oracle said:

"I think it is Democracy and Freedom that the TCs fear and not just the GCs"

Funny thing is Oracle that under a one man one vote system the TCs with 18 per cent of the vote would be the real powermakers, and have much more substantial say in all things than under any other setup. The only thing missing in such a fully democratic system is a role for Turkey, and that has been the key to this puzzle all along.

18% TC biased vote vs 82% GC biased vote who do you think will win?

...say it again for me VP, you would accept the political stucture of a Sovereign Cyprus as a Unitary State; with its Bicameral Legislature and with it's two National Assemblies as I have suggested in the Manifesto put forward to you. Without discussing geography, or any division of territory, it is likely for Turkish Cypriots to see value in it, yet it is Greek Cypriots who would want no part of the sharing this model involves, don't you agree?

allow me this morsel, because in our mind we wereisland dwellers, this island once was whole, i do not want to think that you would ignore me this time, as comfort, to humour me, VP, and to make this clear to the readers who know you, that there are Universal Principals and because it is true to the Principals which all men should share, in our choices; to be equal, and in our efforts; for our betterment, you agree, that the model I present is feasable. i know i know too much blah blah

[Piratis]

Oracle said:

"I think it is Democracy and Freedom that the TCs fear and not just the GCs"

Funny thing is Oracle that under a one man one vote system the TCs with 18 per cent of the vote would be the real powermakers, and have much more substantial say in all things than under any other setup. The only thing missing in such a fully democratic system is a role for Turkey, and that has been the key to this puzzle all along.

this is true...

and if we were to live bi communally, "Greeks" would play the same role in a National Assembly dominated by "Turks"; which is why three governments allows a State to be able to strongly represent its citizens as this island's dwellers, while as the island dwellers in their daily lives live, they have choices which reflect their identity as persons.

There are other options open, it is time for a Solution which may be completely different, but intuitvely much more futuristic.

...and i think it is a disgrace to ignore how humbly lucky we are to live on this island with its enormous Heritance, to tear it in two for it's wealth.

You cannot force a union repulse, it is bound to break down. When you consider that GCs do not want to live in a TC administered state then why do they want to force us to live in a GC administered state???

We never forced you anything. If you didn't want to live in an island with a Greek majority you shouldn't have come to Cyprus. You are the ones who came here to force your rule, and you continue trying to do so in illegal and undemocratic ways.

[Eric dayi]

Oracle said:

"I think it is Democracy and Freedom that the TCs fear and not just the GCs"

Funny thing is Oracle that under a one man one vote system the TCs with 18 per cent of the vote would be the real powermakers, and have much more substantial say in all things than under any other setup. The only thing missing in such a fully democratic system is a role for Turkey, and that has been the key to this puzzle all along.

this is true...

and if we were to live bi communally, "Greeks" would play the same role in a National Assembly dominated by "Turks"; which is why three governments allows a State to be able to strongly represent its citizens as this island's dwellers, while as the island dwellers in their daily lives live, they have choices which reflect their identity as persons.

There are other options open, it is time for a Solution which may be completely different, but intuitvely much more futuristic.

...and i think it is a disgrace to ignore how humbly lucky we are to live on this island with its enormous Heritance, to tear it in two for it's wealth.

You cannot force a union repulse, it is bound to break down. When you consider that GCs do not want to live in a TC administered state then why do they want to force us to live in a GC administered state???

We never forced you anything. If you didn't want to live in an island with a Greek majority you shouldn't have come to Cyprus. You are the ones who came here to force your rule, and you continue trying to do so in illegal and undemocratic ways.

You GCs came to Cyorus as settlers and have eliminated the people who were here before you then you tried the same with us TCs but failed an you are talking about "democracy"? You don't even know the meaning of the word.