Cyprus-Forum.com

[Oracle]

Pantheman,
Let's suppose that you are right and Turkey 'has to learn'. Then the question is what is the best (i.e, most effective) and fastest way of learning : one way is to do so by offering and honouring EU membership. This gives both a carrot and a stick. Those fundamentalists who reject out of hand Turkey's EU membership can offer neither carrot nor stick.

A bit of EU history is instructive for this example. The application of Greece, Spain and Portugal were all encouraged by existing EEC members in order to encourage and consolidate the democratic transformation of those states following (long) periods of military dictatorship. Each of those three states were not adequately democratic etc when they applied for membership but the prospect of membership acted as the carrot for reform. I think that this model is applicable to Turkey. (Again, if Turkey does not democratise, make constitutional changes, revise the criminal code, etc, then who is going to suffer ? Turkish citizens, and Cypriot citizens. So again, you can have Turkey pissing in or you can try to stop Turkey pissing at all).


Following Boomers and Oracles 'logic' Turkey is irremediable; their argument is basically one of saying if Turkey reforms and joins the EU it will still fuck the EU and Cyprus and anywhere else ('cos that's what Turks are like'); if it doesn't reform and join the EU it will still fuck the EU and Cyprus. Not only is that a literally hopeless argument, but is is of absolutely no help to Cyprus.[/i]

Sorry CopperLine .. but the Democratisation process for these countries was really just a matter of dotting the "i"'s and crossing the "t"s ... a world away from the criteria that Turkey would have to meet.

But it begs the question when NOBODY actively wants TURKEY to join the EU aside from the major misfit UK and a complete outsider the USA ... why would Turkey want to join? ... is it precisely because it is not wanted that it once again has to "invade" ... because if Turkey ever gets in .. which I know it will NOT ... it will be tantamount to INVASION.

Give up on "Turkey and the EU" it is a lame duck! .... I re-iterate my message ... Turkey will destroy the EU from the inside which is why the uncomfortable member UK and outsider, competitor USA are pushing for this cataclysm.

[Khan]

Perhaps Oracle, you can elaborate how you think Turkey "will destroy the EU from the inside"?

[Oracle]

Perhaps Oracle, you can elaborate how you think Turkey "will destroy the EU from the inside"?

The EU has reached its near-optimal size. It does not now need an injection of 70 Million people.

Although not a Christian Club by any means - something I would oppose, as do the majority .... it has cohesion through a shared moral and cultural history which serves to unite it.

Turkey has forced its way into the European psyche not like a friend, but as an enemy of Europe ... no shared ideology ... no shared exchange of history (going back thousands of years as opposed to hundreds, predominantly violent) .... but only Barbarism, invasion and usurpation.

Turkey has not shown itself to serve any interests but its own. To this day it denies atrocities with a blindness, which if brought into the heart of Europe, would infuriate and tear asunder .

They are the perpetual wrongdoers ... the consistently disruptive ... the abominably greedy, expansionist, unstable malevolent that would be best suited in isolation.. No communal spirit

Just accept it ... you do not fit in, you are not wanted and the more you try to force your way in, the more we realise you have a vested interest which is not for the good of the EU but yours.

So why do you think they want to join so much?

What does Turkey have to offer Europe, that Europe will suffer if it lacked?

And the million dollar question which nobody can answer ... why is it only the other misfit UK, and complete outsider USA .... that make the greatest noise for Turkey to join?

Judge me by my friends .... has never been more apt.

Now are you going to reciprocate? ... because CopperLine has done his usual post meaningless rhetoric, then leave without answering any points.

[CopperLine]

Oracle your words don't mean anything, they've become a language private to you. How on earth can you in the same sentence write "if it [Turkey] ever gets in" [which as you well know is if it meets the membership criteria and receives no veto from existing members including Cyprus] ..." and "....it will be tantamount to invasion" [invasion written in the randomly highlighted text symptomatic of a seriously unstable mind].

Since when and in what universe has the idea of unanimous admission become synonymous with the word invasion ?

I'm sorry but this is not a matter of political, legal, scientific or moral differences. The plain fact is that you are a nutcase.

[Oracle]

Oracle your words don't mean anything, they've become a language private to you. How on earth can you in the same sentence write "if it [Turkey] ever gets in" [which as you well know is if it meets the membership criteria and receives no veto from existing members including Cyprus] ..." and "....it will be tantamount to invasion" [invasion written in the randomly highlighted text symptomatic of a seriously unstable mind].

Since when and in what universe has the idea of unanimous admission become synonymous with the word invasion ?

I'm sorry but this is not a matter of political, legal, scientific or moral differences. The plain fact is that you are a nutcase.

You have forfeited the right to rhetoric or the asking of more questions unless you go back and answer what has been asked of you .....

[CopperLine]

How does one forfeight a right ? Surely the whole point of a right is that it cannot be alienated. But Oracle, again, you might have your own private notion of a right whizzing around your head which is unknown in the rest of the real world.

[Get Real!]

Meetings usually starts like this

...and they finish like this

Is that a new outfit Erdogan wore for the occasion?

[Oracle]

How does one forfeight a right ? Surely the whole point of a right is that it cannot be alienated. But Oracle, again, you might have your own private notion of a right whizzing around your head which is unknown in the rest of the real world.

You posed me questions which I answered. My participation here grants you that right to ask me questions .... but only in exchange for similar in kind .... reciprocal arrangement ... much like a contract.

If you do not fulfill your part which is the occasional answering of a question then you forfeit any right to ask me questions and expect further replies.

This is not a court of Law, Legal executive / secretary, whatever you are ... where you come along, make a statement pose questions and leave ....

If you want to debate .... and get the most out of others you have to occasionally offer something meaningful .... even an attempt at a reply.

So far you are a let down ...

[CopperLine]

No Oracle I didn't 'pose you a question'. I already know what your views are - page after page of endlessly repeated racist, tawdry, cheap, hate-filled drivel. I'm not in the slightest bit interested in an exchange with you - to think that I'm interested in that, let alone have an obligation to you, is just more evidence of your delusional state of mind.

Now I'll turn back to people and issues that matter.

[Eric dayi]

How does one forfeight a right ? Surely the whole point of a right is that it cannot be alienated. But Oracle, again, you might have your own private notion of a right whizzing around your head which is unknown in the rest of the real world.

You posed me questions which I answered. My participation here grants you that right to ask me questions .... but only in exchange for similar in kind .... reciprocal arrangement ... much like a contract.

If you do not fulfill your part which is the occasional answering of a question then you forfeit any right to ask me questions and expect further replies.

This is not a court of Law, Legal executive / secretary, whatever you are ... where you come along, make a statement pose questions and leave ....

If you want to debate .... and get the most out of others you have to occasionally offer something meaningful .... even an attempt at a reply.

So far you are a let down ...

Is this "much like a contract" that we TCs and you GCs signed in 1960 and you GCs and Greeks didn't keep to or had any intentions to honour little sock-puppet?