Cyprus-Forum.com

[observer]

The real reason why Turkey may never join the EU is just old fashioned international politics. The EU Parliament’s seats are handed out by population size, and the more important commissioners’ appointments are generally handed out to the larger countries. Turkey would be the second most populous country in the EU, and would inevitably have a large say.

This explains France’s hostility. In the early years of the EU it was pretty much a French club. France could generally get Germany on-side because of post-war guilt, and the Italian government changed so often that their influence, along with all the tiny countries, was minimal. This was one reason why De Gaulle vetoed UK joining – it would have weakened France’s influence. As a newer and larger Germany has shaken off its post-war guilt and gets out from under France’s shadow, and UK follows its own national agenda, the influence of France on the EU has shrunk. If Turkey joined, with its large population, the influence of France would shrink even more.

Letting all the smaller Eastern European countries into the EU was a political matter which didn’t matter too much. They were unlikely to combine and weaken the influence of the EU’s major players, and it prevented them going unstable at the EU’s boundaries. Anyone who suggest that the Baltic States, Bulgaria or Romania are models of liberal democracies in fact (as opposed to on paper) should try doing business or living there. Turkey is essentially stable so doesn’t need to be brought into the club in the same way.

Don’t let passion get in the way of real politics, real politicians rarely do.

[humanist]

yeah well that is true and correct account ........ so what do we do about Cyprus. It'll be good not seeing the TC's economically embargoed and the refugees return home.

[Nikitas]

Bir said:

"And assuming that I am wrong,and the balance of power changes,and Cyprus and her allies manage to "nail Turkey" as someone put it....What kind of nailing would that be???? The killing of 50 Million Turks??? Sending half back to central asia in another version of ethnic cleansing??? Do some of you guys and gals engage your brains before you open your mouths???"

It is not a question of destroying Turkey or changing its borders etc. It is simply a matter of getting Turkey to act like normal nations act. For that to happen Turkey needs to change this self image it has as the most important power in the region. Things like violating Greek air and sea space on a daily basis, bullying the Syrians over water rights, joining up with the Israelis to shove Arabs about, this is the kind of thing that is bothersome.

The goal is a nation where the chiefs of the military are selected by the government, and where the government can dismiss any military bigshot any time. When that is done the rest will follow.

[denizaksulu]

If a solution is found in Cyprus then yes Turkey will be in the EU. If there is no solution then no EU for the animals.

Why on earth not the other way round. If Turkey gets in to the EU, then it might be obliged to take more notice of issues over Cyprus.

The idiots let Cyprus in before any deal after all.

[BirKibrisli]

Bir said:

"And assuming that I am wrong,and the balance of power changes,and Cyprus and her allies manage to "nail Turkey" as someone put it....What kind of nailing would that be???? The killing of 50 Million Turks??? Sending half back to central asia in another version of ethnic cleansing??? Do some of you guys and gals engage your brains before you open your mouths???"

It is not a question of destroying Turkey or changing its borders etc. It is simply a matter of getting Turkey to act like normal nations act. For that to happen Turkey needs to change this self image it has as the most important power in the region. Things like violating Greek air and sea space on a daily basis, bullying the Syrians over water rights, joining up with the Israelis to shove Arabs about, this is the kind of thing that is bothersome.

The goal is a nation where the chiefs of the military are selected by the government, and where the government can dismiss any military bigshot any time. When that is done the rest will follow.

There is a saying in Turkish,Nikitas,which you might know already. "A Turk's friend can only be another Turk"...This sums up the paranoid mindset which is very common in Turkey.Despite her image abroad,Turkey is really a nation of extreme self-doubt and insecurity...That is the primary reason they hang onto American skirts as if their life depends on it...The actions you described above are largely to please the Americans...Nothing will change in Turkey till American policy for the Middle East changes...And those people of this forum who attack with venom anything that has "Turkish" associated with it,are only making the matters worse...

[Murataga]

Bir said:

"And assuming that I am wrong,and the balance of power changes,and Cyprus and her allies manage to "nail Turkey" as someone put it....What kind of nailing would that be???? The killing of 50 Million Turks??? Sending half back to central asia in another version of ethnic cleansing??? Do some of you guys and gals engage your brains before you open your mouths???"

It is not a question of destroying Turkey or changing its borders etc. It is simply a matter of getting Turkey to act like normal nations act. For that to happen Turkey needs to change this self image it has as the most important power in the region. Things like violating Greek air and sea space on a daily basis, bullying the Syrians over water rights, joining up with the Israelis to shove Arabs about, this is the kind of thing that is bothersome.

The goal is a nation where the chiefs of the military are selected by the government, and where the government can dismiss any military bigshot any time. When that is done the rest will follow.

There is a saying in Turkish,Nikitas,which you might know already. "A Turk's friend can only be another Turk"...This sums up the paranoid mindset which is very common in Turkey.

How many countries` citizens located close to where Turkey is, feel as you feel about national security in Australia? Turkey is situated right in the middle of the Balkans, Caucasians and the Middle-East… Three regions that have been and to an extent currently is the stage for the harshest and longest conflicts on the face of the planet.

Despite her image abroad,Turkey is really a nation of extreme self-doubt and insecurity...That is the primary reason they hang onto American skirts as if their life depends on it...

So, are the U.K., Italy and Spain nations of “extreme self-doubt and insecurity”, for “hanging on to the skirts” of U.S. in its recent intervention to Iraq (not to mention Turkey refused providing any military base use for launching offensives and troop support despite extreme pressure)? International relations are an intrigue web and with your above analysis you are only oversimplifying a selective part of it. Every country has allies, every country needs allies, and every country tries to act together with her allies. The stronger your allies are and the better you can cooperate with them the better off you are. There is nothing wrong about any of this. Nevertheless, if you had a true sense of the mindset of the people in Turkey you would know very well how resentful they are about the U.S. and its policies in the region.

[denizaksulu]

Bir said:

"And assuming that I am wrong,and the balance of power changes,and Cyprus and her allies manage to "nail Turkey" as someone put it....What kind of nailing would that be???? The killing of 50 Million Turks??? Sending half back to central asia in another version of ethnic cleansing??? Do some of you guys and gals engage your brains before you open your mouths???"

It is not a question of destroying Turkey or changing its borders etc. It is simply a matter of getting Turkey to act like normal nations act. For that to happen Turkey needs to change this self image it has as the most important power in the region. Things like violating Greek air and sea space on a daily basis, bullying the Syrians over water rights, joining up with the Israelis to shove Arabs about, this is the kind of thing that is bothersome.

The goal is a nation where the chiefs of the military are selected by the government, and where the government can dismiss any military bigshot any time. When that is done the rest will follow.

There is a saying in Turkish,Nikitas,which you might know already. "A Turk's friend can only be another Turk"...This sums up the paranoid mindset which is very common in Turkey.Despite her image abroad,Turkey is really a nation of extreme self-doubt and insecurity...That is the primary reason they hang onto American skirts as if their life depends on it...The actions you described above are largely to please the Americans...Nothing will change in Turkey till American policy for the Middle East changes...And those people of this forum who attack with venom anything that has "Turkish" associated with it,are only making the matters worse...

BK, Turkeys position in the middle east is forever fomenting the 'Crusader mentality' of the European nations. That is not insecurity that is self-preservation. The 'Turkun dostu Turkdur' expression may seem outdated but one cannot but think on those lines with the attitude it faces re:EU.

What do you say? And nice to see you around again.

Regards ve selamlar

Deniz

[Nikitas]

Extreme self doubt is evident in the multitide of national symbols which are used everywhere: busts of Attaturk, flags and more flags.

YOu see this conrtast if you take a cruise in the Aegean. You arrive Kos, an island that Turkey is threatening to occupy, yet the only Greek flag you see is on the port authority building. The ship goes across to Bodurm and there are flags everywhere, as if they need to assert the place is Turkish, something no one doubts. Seeing the flags everywhere a Canadian lady asked if it was a national holiday. It was not, it was a typical day in Turkey.

[Kifeas]

Extreme self doubt is evident in the multitide of national symbols which are used everywhere: busts of Attaturk, flags and more flags.

YOu see this conrtast if you take a cruise in the Aegean. You arrive Kos, an island that Turkey is threatening to occupy, yet the only Greek flag you see is on the port authority building. The ship goes across to Bodurm and there are flags everywhere, as if they need to assert the place is Turkish, something no one doubts. Seeing the flags everywhere a Canadian lady asked if it was a national holiday. It was not, it was a typical day in Turkey.

From what I know by fact, Turkey can easily occupy Kos, if they are ready to sacrifice 100,000 soldiers! The entire island is a huge banker that will be defended by 30,000 Kosites equipped with the latest state of the art weaponry. Same is true for each and every Greek island along the west coast of Turkey, where each islander is also a soldier at the same time!

[shahmaran]

I think 100,000 would be enough to take Greece let alone Kos