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ECHR endorses land swap deal

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby CopperLine » Thu Apr 24, 2008 5:41 pm

Jerry
I'd endorse what you wrote :
If a few more Cypriots did what I have done I think the Court would soon realise that the PC is a not an effective or efficient body.


At the moment the ECHR has assigned the PC to be the local remedy. If it is shown to be inadequate or not working as an effective remedy then the ECHR has to be shown that. The effectiveness of the PC is already under scrutiny of the ECHR, and the more cases which call into question the PC the more likely (a) the PC will improve its currently woeful record and (b) the more likely that the ECHR (and other institutions) will take action to oblige the PC, the TRNC and ultimately Turkey to improve the local remedy.

At the moment the PC is the only route to remedy. I we don't have the PC then what else is on offer ? If the PC is inadequate as it stands - which it certainly seems to be - then how can it be strengthened, improved, etc ?
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Postby Viewpoint » Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:17 pm

Paphitis wrote:
CopperLine wrote:No Boomerang. It is not that you are stupid it is that you (and Paphitis) are mistaken.

Consider an analogy from a domestic court. In a criminal (or civil) proceeding the victim or a crime or tort does not have to prove that they themselves are innocent any wrongdoing before they can take action against their respondent or accused. For example, supposing I was accused of the murder of a distant cousin of yours, and your family rightly wants legal remedy. You do not have to prove that you - a very distant cousin - are innocent of any and all possible offences against me before you can proceed in an action against me. Our respective other crimes vis. one another are, essentially, irrelevant.

That is unless you support the idea of collective punishment - which is fundamentally illegal under international law.


It is very simple. Come to the RoC, prove that you do not possess stolen GC land, and claim what is rightfully yours.

Could not be any simpler unless you are afraid and trying to hide the possibility of utilizing stolen land....which would lead to prosecution.


How does being forced to go and live in the "RoC" where we do not have a life or belong prove that we are not residing in disputed property?
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Postby Viewpoint » Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:25 pm

Jerry wrote:Boomerang, I enquired with the PC last year about their proceedure for compensation/restitution/exchange. They are badly organised, access to them is not easy you have to find them first and then they tell you to apply in Turkish. If you don't like their offer you then can go to the ECHR. I wrote to the ECHR and told them that because the PC was poorly run I had no faith in them and would like to apply to the Court, they sent me all the necessary paperwork to start a claim they did not say you must use the PC first - that surprised me. If a few more Cypriots did what I have done I think the Court would soon realise that the PC is a not an effective or efficient body.

With regard to TCs taking action through the EHCR I'm sure there are some who would claim that they were forced to leave their homes in 1963/4, I have seen the empty villages.


The PC have settled over 40 cases one been the last being the agreed swap, there are 500 more cases waiting appraisal and conclusion. You can employ a TC lawyer help you with the paper work just like we employ GC lawyers to pursue our cases in the "RoC".
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Postby boomerang » Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:51 pm

Viewpoint wrote:
Jerry wrote:Boomerang, I enquired with the PC last year about their proceedure for compensation/restitution/exchange. They are badly organised, access to them is not easy you have to find them first and then they tell you to apply in Turkish. If you don't like their offer you then can go to the ECHR. I wrote to the ECHR and told them that because the PC was poorly run I had no faith in them and would like to apply to the Court, they sent me all the necessary paperwork to start a claim they did not say you must use the PC first - that surprised me. If a few more Cypriots did what I have done I think the Court would soon realise that the PC is a not an effective or efficient body.

With regard to TCs taking action through the EHCR I'm sure there are some who would claim that they were forced to leave their homes in 1963/4, I have seen the empty villages.


The PC have settled over 40 cases one been the last being the agreed swap, there are 500 more cases waiting appraisal and conclusion. You can employ a TC lawyer help you with the paper work just like we employ GC lawyers to pursue our cases in the "RoC".


:arrow: LINKS :?:
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Postby Viewpoint » Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:49 pm

Duplication
Last edited by Viewpoint on Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby boomerang » Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:50 pm

CopperLine wrote:I've posted a lot on the ECHR in the past. I'm interested in it. I know how it works and what it is supposed to do. I'm not going to repeat every last judgement, every last procedure or every last detail in every post. Some bits I'm critical of; some bits I'm supportive of. I'm not a simpleton who praises only when it acts in 'my favour' and condemns when it acts against. I do not see law in such crude terms; law is a social institution and fulfils a social purpose.

What's your point Boomerang ? (Apart from finding some spurious pretext to accuse me of spinning). I describe the ECHR procedure, reply to a question about how the PC is supposed to work, what the laws of occupation are, and attempt to clarify how legal systems work ....... and you accuse me of spin, assert that I'm telling people to negotiate with thieves, and other such nonsense. You fundamentally misrepresent what I've written - not even using the words I'd actually used - and then accuse me of of spinning.

Sad to say, Boomerang, but I can't help feeling that you're just looking to pick a fight. You're stirring. If so, I just can't be bothered, I'm not interested.

You are just wasting everyone's time. Mine included. I'm really not interested in inventing and fantasising about what other forum members might, but are probably not, thinking. You are at liberty to carry on inventing false claims and making false accusations - I can't stop you. But I can ignore you.


Strooth you call others simpletons and here you are changing your post after you got a reply...

And please spare me the lecture of what the law stands for...I am not from turkey as you have gathered by now...I come from a country that affords me the right to question the law...and goes without saying judgements aswell
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Postby Viewpoint » Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:56 pm

boomerang wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
Jerry wrote:Boomerang, I enquired with the PC last year about their proceedure for compensation/restitution/exchange. They are badly organised, access to them is not easy you have to find them first and then they tell you to apply in Turkish. If you don't like their offer you then can go to the ECHR. I wrote to the ECHR and told them that because the PC was poorly run I had no faith in them and would like to apply to the Court, they sent me all the necessary paperwork to start a claim they did not say you must use the PC first - that surprised me. If a few more Cypriots did what I have done I think the Court would soon realise that the PC is a not an effective or efficient body.

With regard to TCs taking action through the EHCR I'm sure there are some who would claim that they were forced to leave their homes in 1963/4, I have seen the empty villages.


The PC have settled over 40 cases one been the last being the agreed swap, there are 500 more cases waiting appraisal and conclusion. You can employ a TC lawyer help you with the paper work just like we employ GC lawyers to pursue our cases in the "RoC".


:arrow: LINKS :?:

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Postby boomerang » Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:18 pm

Viewpoint wrote:
boomerang wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
Jerry wrote:Boomerang, I enquired with the PC last year about their proceedure for compensation/restitution/exchange. They are badly organised, access to them is not easy you have to find them first and then they tell you to apply in Turkish. If you don't like their offer you then can go to the ECHR. I wrote to the ECHR and told them that because the PC was poorly run I had no faith in them and would like to apply to the Court, they sent me all the necessary paperwork to start a claim they did not say you must use the PC first - that surprised me. If a few more Cypriots did what I have done I think the Court would soon realise that the PC is a not an effective or efficient body.

With regard to TCs taking action through the EHCR I'm sure there are some who would claim that they were forced to leave their homes in 1963/4, I have seen the empty villages.


The PC have settled over 40 cases one been the last being the agreed swap, there are 500 more cases waiting appraisal and conclusion. You can employ a TC lawyer help you with the paper work just like we employ GC lawyers to pursue our cases in the "RoC".


:arrow: LINKS :?:

Image


Happy dreams dopie

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=17262

:arrow: 8)
:arrow: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby Viewpoint » Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:22 pm

boomerang wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
boomerang wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
Jerry wrote:Boomerang, I enquired with the PC last year about their proceedure for compensation/restitution/exchange. They are badly organised, access to them is not easy you have to find them first and then they tell you to apply in Turkish. If you don't like their offer you then can go to the ECHR. I wrote to the ECHR and told them that because the PC was poorly run I had no faith in them and would like to apply to the Court, they sent me all the necessary paperwork to start a claim they did not say you must use the PC first - that surprised me. If a few more Cypriots did what I have done I think the Court would soon realise that the PC is a not an effective or efficient body.

With regard to TCs taking action through the EHCR I'm sure there are some who would claim that they were forced to leave their homes in 1963/4, I have seen the empty villages.


The PC have settled over 40 cases one been the last being the agreed swap, there are 500 more cases waiting appraisal and conclusion. You can employ a TC lawyer help you with the paper work just like we employ GC lawyers to pursue our cases in the "RoC".


:arrow: LINKS :?:

Image


Happy dreams dopie

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=17262

:arrow: 8)
:arrow: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Image
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Postby boomerang » Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:28 pm

Viewpoint wrote:
boomerang wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
boomerang wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
Jerry wrote:Boomerang, I enquired with the PC last year about their proceedure for compensation/restitution/exchange. They are badly organised, access to them is not easy you have to find them first and then they tell you to apply in Turkish. If you don't like their offer you then can go to the ECHR. I wrote to the ECHR and told them that because the PC was poorly run I had no faith in them and would like to apply to the Court, they sent me all the necessary paperwork to start a claim they did not say you must use the PC first - that surprised me. If a few more Cypriots did what I have done I think the Court would soon realise that the PC is a not an effective or efficient body.

With regard to TCs taking action through the EHCR I'm sure there are some who would claim that they were forced to leave their homes in 1963/4, I have seen the empty villages.


The PC have settled over 40 cases one been the last being the agreed swap, there are 500 more cases waiting appraisal and conclusion. You can employ a TC lawyer help you with the paper work just like we employ GC lawyers to pursue our cases in the "RoC".


:arrow: LINKS :?:

Image


Happy dreams dopie

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=17262

:arrow: 8)
:arrow: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Image


Here is something more to laugh about...but can't help wondering the nervousness of the laugh...

anyway laughing boy here are more good news for you...

Biggest property compensation yet



Biggest penalty yet for Turkish property violations


By Philippos Stylianou


THE European Court of Human Rights this week ordered Turkey to pay the heaviest penalty yet for violating the property rights of Greek Cypriot refugees, while categorically stating that the latter remained the lawful owners of the property.

In awarding έ835,000 to Kyrenia refugee John Demades, the Strasbourg-based court made abundantly clear that the damages ordered by the court to Cypriot refugees are only for the loss of use and enjoyment of their properties and do not affect their ownership rights.

Moreover, being still the rightful title-holders of the property, successful ECHR applicants are entitled to more money from Turkey for as long as this country refuses to return their property to them, it emerged after the decision.

Last year the ECHR awarded έ875,000 in the Xenides-Aresti case for property in the fenced city of Famagusta, while in the landmark 2003 case of Titina Loizidou, which set the property bomb off for Turkey, the award was £640,000 for the applicant’s house in Kyrenia.

Human Rights lawyer Achilleas Demetriades who represented all three applicants at the ECHR described the latest development as one of huge importance.

Comply

"These damage awards, which I am sure Turkey will have to comply with at the end, show that what we have since 1974 it is not only a violation of human rights on paper but in practice as well," Demetriades told a press conference in Nicosia and added: "The property right of the Greek Cypriots has not only been safeguarded but evaluated also and everyone can manage it as they like, either by going to court or otherwise. The fact that we offer a choice to the individual makes up the success story of this trilogy of cases."

Demetriades explained that the Demades award was proportionally the highest so far, since the final amount paid to Loizidou carried a 5% interest over the years Turkey had refused to comply with the court decision, augmented by 3% penalty.

Also, the Xenides-Aresti property in Famagusta comprised besides a house another plot as well, while the Demades property was just a house with a garden.

Moreover, Demetriades stressed the fact that the Demades case is the first to be won involving refugee property, which is being used by the Turkish occupation army.

Exclusive

The house is situated close to the sea in the Rock Ruby bay now forming an exclusive retreat for Turkish military top brass (See Google Earth map).

The Court in the Demades case awarded έ785,000 in pecuniary damages for the loss of use and enjoyment of the property, έ45,000 in non-pecuniary damages for the distress, anguish and frustration the applicant suffered in being deprived of his property, and έ5,000 in costs and expenses.

Unfortunately, Ioannis Demades himself did not survive to rejoice in his vindication, having passed away in September 2006. The case was pursued by his heirs, wife Roula Demades, son Demetris and daughter Anna Demades Gavrielides.

The ECHR took its cue to stress the continuing ownership right of the Greek Cypriot refugees from an attempt on the part of the Turkish government to include the market value of the land in its evaluation of the property.

"In this regard the Court reiterates its finding in Loizidou, Cyprus v. Turkey and Xenides Aresti v. Turkey, that displaced Greek Cypriots, like the applicant, cannot be deemed to have lost title to their property and that the compensation to be awarded by this Court in such cases is confined to losses emanating from the denial of access and loss of control, use and enjoyment of his property," this week’s decision said.

The Court based its pecuniary damages award on the Greek Cypriot side’s evaluation of Demades’ property, dismissing that of the Turkish Cypriot side’s which put the value of the property at only £258,053.

Demetriades publicly thanked real estate valuer Andreas Pantazis for preparing the accurate evaluation report.

What was presented at Strasbourg as the Turkish government’s property evaluation was prepared by the so-called "Immovable Property Commission" and bore the stamp of the "TRNC Ministry of the Interior."

Commenting on this, Demetriades recalled that the ECHR considers the occupation regime as a subordinate authority of Turkey in northern Cyprus.

In the Demades decision, the Court referred again to the "Immovable property commission" rejecting the Turkish government’s request to refer the case to that commission.

The Court reiterated its position in the previous Xenides-Aresti case in which it had stated that the proceedings of the case were too far advanced to consider such a likelihood.

Compensation

Responding to questions, Demetriades said that the issue of the so-called ‘compensation commission’ would be decided in 8 cases that had been designated as pilot ones by the ECHR.

Turkey has now three months within which to appeal the ECHR ruling on the Demades case, after which it will be compelled to pay the damages awarded.

According to Demetriades, Turkey is obliged to keep paying successful ECHR applicants for the loss of use and enjoyment of their properties for as long as it refuses to return them to their rightful owners.

The assessment of the money payable as well as the mode of payement are left to the Committee of Ministers of the Council of Europe which monitors the implementation of ECHR decisions.




Do I hear you want links?

here you go laughing boy

[url]http://www.cyprusweekly.com.cy/default.aspx?FrontPageNewsID=304_1[/url

knock yourself out :arrow: :lol:
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